Unable to trace a single member of my Father's family

[Howard]

I am looking for help in tracing any family connections on my father's side. I have been trying for a number of years and used sites like Genesreunited and Ancestory for research without success, also Birmingham (old) Library. Even visited my half brother in Canada, who is now 98, without any new information coming too light. My father was born on the 10th May 1890 at 164 Bordesley Park Road in the Sub District of Deritend in the County of Birmingham and his birth registered in Aston as per his birth certificate number S.R.17889/26. His name at registration was Arthur Wright and his father's name was Arthur Henry Wright, profession Draughtsman, and Mother's name Mary Wright formerly Molyneux. The birth was registered on the 14th June 1890. I have a book, The Winborough Boys by the Rev H.C.Adams, presented to my father by the School Board for Aston for Regular and Punctual Attendance at Erdington Board School for year end 31 December 1898.....and that is it! My father, as legend goes, ran away from home at 13, returning home a couple of years later, to be told by a previous neighbour that his mother and father had emigrated to Canada. I know he became an electrician and worked at Vickers during the 1st World War, married his first wife in 1921, had 3 children, married my mother in 1945 and had 3 more children. However we have no knowledge of any of my father's siblings (if any), aunts, uncles, grandparents etc. I had hoped to be able to find something for my half sister who is 92 and my half brother in Canada. But I am stumped! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Olde Crone]

Howard

I have looked for a marriage for Arthur Henry Wright and Mary Molyneux but nothing comes up in England and Wales. The first thought therefore is that he was illegitimate. I will look for other births for this couple.

OC

[Anstey Nomad]

Well Howard, you’ve come to the right place!

I’m no expert, but I’ve confirmed your father’s birth registration and am looking for his parents’ marriage and trying to find them on the censuses.

[ElizabethHerts]

Like OC, I've been looking for you and there is no Wright - Molyneux marriage that I can see. I think illegitimacy is the stumbling block here. I haven't found any other children for this couple either.

[ElizabethHerts]

Perhaps his father's details are made up or inaccurate?

[Merry]

There's this couple on the 1891 census:

Coventry Road, Bordesley, Aston, Warwickshire

Arthur Henry Wright Head Married 34 Lithographic Draughtsman b West Bromwich, Saffordshire
Selina Alice Wright Wife Married 35 - b Aston, Warwickshire

He looks promising as he has the right name and occupation and is living in the right area. Of course he is married to someone else......

[ElizabethHerts]

I kept coming across him, Merry, but then the phone rang!
He does look promising.

[ElizabethHerts]

There's a bankruptcy notice in 1891 for Arthur Henry Wright in Birmingham:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000033%2f18910325%2f032

[Olde Crone]

Yes, problem is there's no marriage for Arthur Wright to any Selena, lol.

I found an Edwin Molyneux Wright, mmn Molyneux, born 1903 Aston. 13 year gap??

OC

[ElizabethHerts]

First name(s) ARTHUR HENRY
Last name WRIGHT
Marriage quarter 4
Marriage year 1877
Registration month -



ARTHUR HENRY WRIGHT married one of these people

Selina Alice Wright, Ellen Elizabeth Westwood

District Aston
District number -
County Warwickshire
Country England
Volume 6D
Volume as transcribed 6D
Page number 453
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005

[Merry]

Selina not Selena OC!

[Merry]

I've seen that Selina with her parents, John and Mary, in 1861 and 1871.

[Olde Crone]

Oh, and I.have written down the correct spelling too! Grrr.

OC

[Merry]

1901 Census:

Arthur J Wright head m 42 Brassworkers draughtsman b West Bromwich Staffordshire
Arthur Wright son 10 - b Bordesley Warwickshire
Reginald Wright son 3 - b Erdington Warwickshire

So, no wife in the house, wrong middle initial but otherwise looking promising.

This looks to be Reginald's birth reg - (presumably a mis-spelling for the mother's maiden name)


WRIGHT, REGINALD OSBERT
mmn MOLYNEAN
GRO Reference: 1897 D Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 374

So, I'd say they are the right family!

[Olde Crone]

Merry

Can you see them in 1911, with Edwin?

OC

[Merry]

I don't have a worldwide sub, but Reginald Osbert Wright appears on the Ontario Canada marriage index.

There is a tree on Ancestry which has Reginald's mother as Selina Alice Corin (not Wright or Molyneux). I think this is because there is a Selina Wright nee Corin, widow, on the 1911 census, but I don't think she has anything to so with these people. We know Arthur Henry's wife was Selina Alice Wright and, presumably the two sons were born to another lady - Mary Molyneux. I wonder where she was in 1901?

I wonder if anyone can find Arthur Henry on any Canadian census?

[Merry]

I found an Edwin Molyneux Wright, mmn Molyneux, born 1903 Aston. 13 year gap??

OC

Sorry OC, I missed your post. They may have gone to Canada by then. I will have a look.

[Merry]

There is an index entry for an Edwin Molyneux Wright on the Canadian 1911 census - other family member …..Mary! But I don't have a sub to view.

[kiterunner]

Hmm, there is this family on the 1911 Canadian census - link to ancestry but I think it is available for free elsewhere, will look for that in a minute:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8947/e082_e002038943?pid=6742468&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx7823&_phstart=successSource

York, Ontario (which is where Reginald got married in 1920)
Wright, Mary Head born Jun 1872 England, immigrated 1906
Reginald Son born Oct 1896 England, immigrated 1906
Edwin Son born Jul 1903 immigrated 1906.

Free image PDF:
http://data2.collectionscanada.gc.ca/1911/pdf/e002038943.pdf

[Merry]

I've just realised, someone has added the middle name, so that might not be the right person.

EDIT _ Ignore this, see previous post by kiterunner.

[Merry]

Thanks Kate. It should be on Family Search, shouldn't it?

So....Mary Molyneax b about 1872.

[Olde Crone]

Merry

You say you found Selina with her parents, so that would definitely be Selina Wright, spinster, marrying, and not Selina Wright who was known as Selina Wright even though she was Selina Corin really!I

OC

[kiterunner]

Thanks Kate. It should be on Family Search, shouldn't it?



Yes, I think so. I got held up trying to find it on Automated Genealogy. I don't remember it being so difficult to use before.

[kiterunner]

Oh no, it says no image available on FamilySearch.

[Merry]

I realise this isn't an exact match with the 1911 Canadian census, but I still wonder if she is the one…..

MOLYNEUX, MARY
mmn HAYNES
GRO Reference: 1873 S Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 717

[Olde Crone]

Yes, that was the only one that looked like a fit to me.

OC

[Merry]

Her parents seem to have married in 1862 in Birmingham District - Edward Molyneux and Mary Heynes (not Haynes).

She was born in Handsworth, but I've not found a Mary Wright b Handsworth as yet.

[kiterunner]

1921 Canadian census Toronto, Ontario - free image:

http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1921&op=img&id=e003051570


Wright Mary 29 Kimberley Ave, Head, widow, age 44, born England, immigrated 1907
Edwin 29 Kimberley Ave, Son, 18, born England, immigrated 1907.

[kiterunner]

Edwin died 3 Dec 1932 in Toronto, age 29:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8946/ONMS935_436-0998?pid=2189138&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx7827&_phstart=successSource

Informant on his death cert is wife Arline Wright.

[kiterunner]

Passenger list for the "Corsican" from Liverpool to Quebec, arriving 20 Jul 1907:

Arthur Wright 46 Pattern maker
Mrs " 36 Wife
R " 9 Child
E M " 3 Child

Final destination Toronto for the family, all born England.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1263/IMCANQC1865_T491-00192?pid=7035561&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx7827&_phstart=successSource

[kiterunner]

And here is the passenger list for the Corsican showing their departure from Liverpool, which is available to view on the UK ancestry sub:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2997/40610_B000536-00495/41126724?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

A H Wright Lab(!) 46
Mrs " Wife 36
R O " Child 9
E M " 3

[kiterunner]

Reginald Osbert Wright married Grace Emma McEachran 17 Jul 1920 in Toronto:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7921/ONMS932_519-0273?pid=2280465&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx7832&_phstart=successSource

[kiterunner]

Reginald on the 1921 Canadian census, in Toronto - link below is to a free image:

http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1921&op=img&id=e003043768

I think the address is 716 Ossington and they are lodging with Grace's family:
Wright Reginald lodger age 23 born England, immigrated 1908
Grace 24 born Ontario.
There is also a child but I will try to find out whether they are still alive or not before posting the name.

[Merry]

Merry

You say you found Selina with her parents, so that would definitely be Selina Wright, spinster, marrying, and not Selina Wright who was known as Selina Wright even though she was Selina Corin really!I

OC

Births:

Selina Alice Wright
1855 Oct-Nov-Dec Aston Warwickshire

Selina Corin
1852 Oct-Nov-Dec Aston Warwickshire

Selina Corin married Henry Wright in 1872. In 1911 she was a widow living with her brother. Someone decided she was the widow of Arthur Henry Wright from that.

[Merry]

So, we are now needing to find Mary Molyneux (or Wright) born about 1872 on the UK census in 1891 (where she might have her son, Arthur with her, aged 1 or just under) and in 1901.

There are no straightforward matches for Mary's born Handsworth, which is the place of birth for the most likely Mary Molyneux according to the 1881 census.

[kiterunner]

Here is Arthur Henry Wright's death registration, free to view on FamilySearch (though you will need to make an account if you haven't got one already):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TX-YQ6J-W?i=857&cc=1307826

Date of birth 3 Apr 1861, date of death 16 May 1911, father John Wright, mother Mary Heynes. (Has someone got in a muddle and given Mary's mother's maiden name by mistake?)

So he won't appear on the 1911 Canadian census as he died before its official date of 1 Jun.

[kiterunner]

There is a public tree on ancestry which says this is Mary Molyneux in 1901, with father Edward and siblings:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7814/STSRG13_2709_2710-0028/35072697?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/27302834/person/280131540335/facts

but it doesn't have an 1891 entry linked for her.

This is the 1891 census for the rest of the Molyneux family but Mary jr isn't there:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/6598/STSRG12_2259_2261-0083/16671913?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/27302834/person/280131501431/facts

[Merry]

I'm not seeing a birth reg with his middle name included.

In 1891 he is b 1857, but on the 1871 census this might be him....

https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=gAP4677&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=uki1871&gsfn=arthur&gsln=wright&gsfn_x=1&gsln_x=1&cp=11&gskw=west%20bromwich&gskw_x=1&qh=fYA%2BG1%2BC1uj8SDzZKrZijw%3D%3D&new=1&rank=1&redir=false&uidh=672&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=2&h=2457205&recoff=&ml_rpos=3

I have to go and do something else now.....

I would think that Heynes is just some one getting mixed up but would then suggest we have the correct Mary Molyneux.

[kiterunner]

Find a Grave says that Reginald O Wright died 12 Oct 1964 Toronto, date of birth 26 Oct 1897. And his wife Grace died 23 Jun 1989. It doesn't mention children.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/131295666

[ElizabethHerts]

Well done, Merry and Kate, while I have been absent! I knew the people on this site would crack it if anyone could. Obviously more work needed, but very good so far.

[Howard]

Wow I am impressed, thank you one and all. So he could well have been married to Alice but had an affair with Mary and the result being my Father. Could Erdington Board School have been an orphanage where he may have been placed (dumped)?

[kiterunner]

I don't think Erdington Board School would have been an orphanage, no. Here is some information about it:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/b61ad555-770b-49a2-9327-abc9d45086c8

[Merry]

Until I have the strength to go back to look for Mary Molyneux, I thought I'd try and see what did happen to Selina Alice Wright. She was with her husband in 1891, but in 1901 she is with her sister, Mary Ann Abel. Her age is five years out, but I'm fairly sure it is the right Selina.

48, High Street, Aston, Warwickshire

Mary A Abel Head Widow 61 Corn Dealer b Birmingham, Warwickshire
Selina A Wright Sister Married 41 Shop Assistant (Corn) b Birmingham, Warwickshire

I have seen Mary Ann's marriage entry to Thomas Abel in 1863 and she says her father is John Wright, corn dealer. This matches with the 1861 and 1871 census for Selina and her parents. Mary Ann is on the 1861 census with the family.

I've not found a death for Selina.

[Merry]

Here is Arthur Henry Wright's death registration, free to view on FamilySearch (though you will need to make an account if you haven't got one already):

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C9TX-YQ6J-W?i=857&cc=1307826

Date of birth 3 Apr 1861, date of death 16 May 1911, father John Wright, mother Mary Heynes. (Has someone got in a muddle and given Mary's mother's maiden name by mistake?)

So he won't appear on the 1911 Canadian census as he died before its official date of 1 Jun.

I posted a possible 1871 census match for an Arthur H Wright but he was born in Gloucestershire and living in West Brom. That's probably not him, as I've just found this.....

Note that both the parents have the wrong forenames when compared with his death record, but the birth date is compelling even though the year is 'wrong' - it does fit better with his age as given on the various census records...:

Find My Past England & Wales Non-Conformist Births And Baptisms

First name(s) Arthur Henry
Last name Wright
Birth year 1857
Birth date 03 Apr 1857
Baptism year 1857
Baptism date 26 Apr 1857
Place West Bromwich
Denomination Wesleyan Methodist
Father's first name(s) James
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
County Staffordshire
Country England


To confirm this is him it might be helpful to purchase a copy of his marriage certificate to Selina Alice Wright as that should give his father's name and occupation.

I will see if I can find more on the above now.

[Merry]

I wonder if this is his birth reg with the wrong forename??!!

WRIGHT, ALFRED HENRY
mmn TISDELL
GRO Reference: 1857 J Quarter in WEST BROMWICH Volume 06B Page 597

The parents names match with this marriage, so this couple have the right forenames:

Marriages Dec 1843

Chatwin Samuel Walsall 17 267
Curvey Benjamin Walsall 17 267
Gillbanks William Walsall 17 267
Harley Mary Ann Walsall 17 267
Linford Mary Ann Walsall 17 267
Till Jane Walsall 17 267
Tisdell Elizabeth Walsall 17 267 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
WRIGHT James Walsall 17 267<<<<<<<<<<<<<,

At the moment I don't know they actually married each other!

[Merry]

Everyone here is screeching for their dinner, but I think this is the right family

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/WARRG9_2159_2163-0885?pid=21084130&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DgAP4715%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1861%26g sfn%3Dsarah%26gsln%3Dwright%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln_x% 3D1%26cp%3D0%26gskw%3Dstaffordshire%26gskw_x%3D1%2 6msbdy%3D1852%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D2%26qh%3Dcdz O4Ob4H5XrlbuuBJPGmg%253D%253D%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1 %26redir%3Dfalse%26uidh%3D672%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D14%26h%3D21084130%26recoff%3D %26ml_rpos%3D15&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gAP4715&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

I looked for other mmn Tisdell births to match the census.

[kiterunner]

I've been looking through the Canadian voters lists to try to find Reginald and his wife Grace, in the hope that they might have had their grown-up children with them at some point, but I haven't found any children. Reginald and Grace were at 95 Franklin Avenue, York North, Ontario, in 1940 and Grace was still at that address in 1965. Not all years are included in the index on ancestry though.

Howard, I will send you a PM with the name of the child who is with Reginald and Grace on the 1921 Canadian census as I have not managed to find out whether s/he is still living or not.

[kiterunner]

It doesn't look as though Arthur Henry and Selina had any children, so your father's only siblings, as far as we know, were Reginald and Edwin.

It seems that the Toronto Public Library has an online archive of the Toronto Star newspaper, but you have to be a library member to search it. If you can get someone to do that, they might be able to find information about Reginald and Edwin's families.

[Mary from Italy]

The parents names match with this marriage, so this couple have the right forenames:

Marriages Dec 1843

Chatwin Samuel Walsall 17 267
Curvey Benjamin Walsall 17 267
Gillbanks William Walsall 17 267
Harley Mary Ann Walsall 17 267
Linford Mary Ann Walsall 17 267
Till Jane Walsall 17 267
Tisdell Elizabeth Walsall 17 267 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<
WRIGHT James Walsall 17 267<<<<<<<<<<<<<,

At the moment I don't know they actually married each other!

They did marry each other; the marriage is on FMP:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBPRS/STAFF/CHURCH-RECORDS-D6018-1-10-1837-1885/00065&parentid=GBPRS/STAFF/MAR3/016974/1

[Merry]

Thanks Mary (It wasn't on there when I looked!! lol)

[Olde Crone]

Not that it adds to anything, but the timeline is interesting.

1898 Arthur leaves the local school. His brother is born that year.
1903 Arthur runs away from home. Another brother born that year.

OC.

[Kit]

Yes, I think so. I got held up trying to find it on Automated Genealogy. I don't remember it being so difficult to use before.

totally off topic here but what is automated genealogy?

Also well done on sorting this out, you all make it look so easy.

[Phoenix]

totally off topic here but what is automated genealogy?



A free Canadian site that has been transcribing censuses, with links to images. I haven't used it for ages myself, but I seem to recall it had the 1905 as well as the 1901 census and was still working on the 1911 last time I used it.

[Kit]

Thanks Phoenix.

[kiterunner]

I have gone back through and replaced the ancestry Canadian census links with links to the images on free sites.

[Merry]

It doesn't look as though Arthur Henry and Selina had any children, so your father's only siblings, as far as we know, were Reginald and Edwin.



I have just found the correct Selina Wright on the 1911 census. She is with her sister, Mary Abel (as she was in 1901).

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_18148_0111_03?pid=21507352&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DgAP4809%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3D1911england %26gsfn%3Dsel*%26gsln%3Dwright%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln _x%3D1%26cp%3D0%26gskw%3Dwarwickshire%26gskw_x%3D1 %26msbdy%3D1855%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D10%26qh%3D cvdVcsE2AfXLItedQ27sdQ%253D%253D%26new%3D1%26rank% 3D1%26redir%3Dfalse%26uidh%3D672%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D2%26h%3D21507352%26recoff%3D% 26ml_rpos%3D3&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gAP4809&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[Howard]

I can only say how truly amazed I am at how much information you have managed to unearth. I am incredibly grateful for the time and effort that all of you have put in based on such limited information, a single birth certificate!! I must have found the A team of genealogists! Seriously, members of my family have been looking for years to come up with answers mostly through my other half sister who died in 2009 without getting close to piecing together the puzzle. The Canadian search really clears up some key questions. We half believed it was a story told to my father when he went back home after running away to stop him looking for his parents. Another story that floats around the family is that Arthur Henry, our grandfather, was killed in a bar room brawl across the border in the USA. I suppose as you have found his actual death certificate with date there may be a paper trail, newspapers etc. to possibly confirm that story? I am spending all day tomorrow, Wednesday, working through all the information you have discovered, which is a lot. If I have any queries on what you have found do I just post a reply on the same thread? Once again thank you, I think it's wonderful that you just jumped in and did this for myself and my (now getting bigger) family.

[Merry]

If I have any queries on what you have found do I just post a reply on the same thread?

Yes please Howard!

[kiterunner]

Another story that floats around the family is that Arthur Henry, our grandfather, was killed in a bar room brawl across the border in the USA. I suppose as you have found his actual death certificate with date there may be a paper trail, newspapers etc. to possibly confirm that story?

See post #36 for the link to his death certificate - he died at 468 Kingston Road, Toronto, and primary cause of death was pulmonary tuberculosis, with pleuro pneumonia being the immediate cause. So the story is false, though of course it could be that he was injured in a bar room brawl at some earlier time.

As I said, if you can find someone in Toronto to help (amateur or professional) they should be able to search the Toronto Star archives to see if there was anything in the newspaper about the family.

[Howard]

Dear Kiterunner, my half brother settled in Toronto in 1965 and he now lives with his wife Peggy, who is 101, with their daughter Audrey in Erin, approx 60 mile west of Toronto but Don and Peggy's son, Alan, lives on the outskirts of Toronto in Oshawa. What a coincidence!! They will be stunned with what you have discovered! Again many many thanks.

[kiterunner]

Wow, that is a coincidence.

[Merry]

Howard,

As we are still looking for Mary and Arthur jr in 1891 I wondered who registered Arthur's birth in 1890?

[Mary from Italy]

I would be rather curious to know why your father ran away, and where he was while he was away.

Did he ever tell you anything about it, or did you get the information from other relatives?

[Merry]

I posted a possible 1871 census match for an Arthur H Wright but he was born in Gloucestershire and living in West Brom. That's probably not him, as I've just found this.....

Note that both the parents have the wrong forenames when compared with his death record, but the birth date is compelling even though the year is 'wrong' - it does fit better with his age as given on the various census records...:

Find My Past England & Wales Non-Conformist Births And Baptisms

First name(s) Arthur Henry
Last name Wright
Birth year 1857
Birth date 03 Apr 1857
Baptism year 1857
Baptism date 26 Apr 1857
Place West Bromwich
Denomination Wesleyan Methodist
Father's first name(s) James
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth
County Staffordshire
Country England


To confirm this is him it might be helpful to purchase a copy of his marriage certificate to Selina Alice Wright as that should give his father's name and occupation.



I found a transcription of the marriage on Family Search which gives Arthur Henry Wright's father's name as James Wright which fits with the above baptism record. A copy of the certificate should also provide his occupation:

Name: Arthur Henry Wright
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 26 Dec 1877
Event Place: Warwickshire, England, United Kingdom
Residence Place: Aston
Age: 21
Marital Status: Single
Birth Year (Estimated): 1856
Father's Name: James Wright
Spouse's Name: Selina Alice Wright
Spouse's Residence Place: Aston
Spouse's Gender: Female
Spouse's Age: 22
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated): 1855
Spouse's Father's Name: John Wright

When Arthur Henry Wright died in 1911 his father's name was given as John (and his mother's name was reported incorrectly too!) - see post #36.

[Merry]

I think the image is available too, but I don't have time to look.

EDIT - No it isn't, unless you are at a LDS Family History Centre or library.

[Mary from Italy]

That looks promising.

I was hoping to find the image on Ancestry or FMP, but it's not there.

I checked http://www.marriage-locator.co.uk , which confirms that the marriage was at St Peter & St Paul's church, Aston, which is included in Ancestry's Birmingham records. However, for some reason Ancestry seems to have missed 1877 for that parish; the images jump from 1876 to 1888.

FMP doesn't have Aston yet.

[Howard]

Do you all see this reply so I can cover both the above questions for Merry and Mary from Italy?
For Merry according to Arthur jnrs birth certificate it says under the heading Signature, Description and Residence of Informant the following: A.H.Wright, Father, 164 Bordesley Park Road, Aston.
For Mary of Italy it would seem my father ran away because he did not have a very good relationship with his father Arthur Henry, he did try to go back home but was told, as the story goes, "to leave by the back kitchen window like he did the first time". When he went back again now 17 the neighbour told him the family had emigrated. Looks like he survived from 13 years of age delivering bread for Scribbens Bakery, photo proof; acting, photo proof; playing the piano, trumpet xylophone, photo proof. How did he learn to play these instruments? This was all before, at the age of 25, he worked for Vickers on Tanks for the First World War as an Electrical Engineer, war document proof. Where did he train?
I agree with Merry that the parents names on Grandad Arthur Henry's Death Certificate are incorrect. Mary may not have known his parents names, or forgotten them as I suspect they probably knew nothing about her and possibly even their grandchildren. So just used names she knew. It must have been a shock for her losing the chief breadwinner with two small children in a foreign country!!

[Merry]

Howard - Thanks for the information about the informant on your father's birth certificate. I had hoped it might have been a third party from the address where your father was born and, had we been really lucky, a relative of Mary's.

Your father must have only missed his family by a few months or even weeks if he was aged 17 when he tried to reconnect with them. Imagine if he had been in time and emigrated to Canada - we wouldn't be having this conversation today!

[Howard]

Hi Merry, yes, I could have been born in Canada and contacting you about relatives in England such are the sliding doors of life!
Not sure of the protocol regarding all the work you have done and when you might turn around and say to me get on with it yourself now we have found the leads for you? Could you let me know if you have taken the investigation as far as you all want to. In the mean time I have some queries along those lines:
How would I go about following up on name removed daughter of Reginald and Grace?
How would I find out about how Edwin died at a relatively young age?
When did my grandmother Mary Molyneux die?
Which is the best family tree website to use so I can look for the siblings of Arthur Henry Wright and Mary Molineux?
What advice can I give to my Canadian relatives in continuing the search over there?

As an aside I looked up the addresses in Canada on Google Earth maps, putting in the house numbers and 3 out of the 4 went directly to the actual house, amazing!

Many thanks for everything that you have done.

Kindest regards

Howard

[kiterunner]

Howard, I have edited your post to remove the name of Reginald and Grace's daughter as we don't know whether she is still alive.

To take your questions out of order:

See post #29 on this thread for a link to Edwin's death registration.
Cause of death was Chronic Osteomyelitis of the left leg, which he had had for 2 months. Condition contracted at home. He had had an operation in October to drain abscesses.

[Merry]

Which is the best family tree website to use so I can look for the siblings of Arthur Henry Wright and Mary Molineux?

Easiest question first!

If you want to follow up the UK part of your tree you would really need to subscribe to a site like Ancestry or Find My Past (there are others). You would need access to the census returns and various birth marriage and death records and whilst there are various places you can find some free records, in the end it makes researching easier if you subscribe to one of the major sites. They do occasionally have free access weekends which can be useful.

Remember, we don't actually know for definite that your grandmother is the Mary Molyneux born in West Bromwich District (in Harmsworth) in 1873, dau of Edward Molyneux and Mary Heynes, though it is very likely as her age is a close match with Mary Wright in Canada. She said her husband's mother was Mary Heynes at his death. Whilst this information was obviously incorrect, it's a massive coincidence if it's not her own mother's name!

[kiterunner]

My first suggestion for your Canadian relatives would be to search the Toronto Star archive which is online via the Toronto Public Library - I can't search it as you need to be a member of the library:

https://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/detail?R=EDB0111

And my second one would be to search for probate records at the Archives of Ontario:
https://torontofamilyhistory.org/researching-toronto-ancestors/probate-records/

[kiterunner]

I have been looking for Mary's death (or remarriage) with no luck yet. And not managed to find out anything about Reginald and Grace's child/ren apart from the name from the 1921 census. But maybe the Toronto Star archive or probate records would help with those.

[kiterunner]

The old Toronto City Directories are available for free online:
https://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/history-genealogy/lh-digital-city-directories.jsp

and you don't have to be a member of the Toronto Public Library to access those.

The 1933 directory has an entry for Wright, Mary (wid. Arthur) at 925 Kingston Road, but then in the 1934 directory, 925 Kingston Rd is vacant. Maybe she moved in with Reginald and Grace after that? But unfortunately the city directories only tend to give the name of the head of household.

[Howard]

Easiest question first!

If you want to follow up the UK part of your tree you would really need to subscribe to a site like Ancestry or Find My Past (there are others). You would need access to the census returns and various birth marriage and death records and whilst there are various places you can find some free records, in the end it makes researching easier if you subscribe to one of the major sites. They do occasionally have free access weekends which can be useful.

Remember, we don't actually know for definite that your grandmother is the Mary Molyneux born in West Bromwich District (in Harmsworth) in 1873, dau of Edward Molyneux and Mary Heynes, though it is very likely as her age is a close match with Mary Wright in Canada. She said her husband's mother was Mary Heynes at his death. Whilst this information was obviously incorrect, it's a massive coincidence if it's not her own mother's name!

Thank you for the above and I agree that the Mary Heynes connection is too much of a coincidence. The Canadian side of the family are now excitedly responding and I am sure they may well get involved with the Canadian side of things. Thank you again. Howard

[Howard]

The old Toronto City Directories are available for free online:
https://www.torontopubliclibrary.ca/history-genealogy/lh-digital-city-directories.jsp

and you don't have to be a member of the Toronto Public Library to access those.

The 1933 directory has an entry for Wright, Mary (wid. Arthur) at 925 Kingston Road, but then in the 1934 directory, 925 Kingston Rd is vacant. Maybe she moved in with Reginald and Grace after that? But unfortunately the city directories only tend to give the name of the head of household.

Thank you for all the pointers towards continuing the Canadian search. The Canadian side of the family are excitedly getting involved and I will pass all your information onto them. However their age, even my nephew and niece are older than me, and computer literacy maybe a barrier. We will see!
Thanks also for your latest bit of information about Granny Mary and her address in Kingston Road. She would have been about 60 in 1933. I hope her life in Canada was better than her early life in the UK even though she lost a son and her husband in upsetting circumstances! Kind regards
Howard