What became of Caroline Gooch post 1871 census?

[Janet in Yorkshire]

In 1851 she was in the family home in Great Grimsby –and her birth was registered Q2 1851 in Caistor reg dist.
Her father Robert Stephen Gooch was a ships carpenter and the family moved around a lot. Her mother Phillis died in 1858 and in 1861 Caroline was in the Gooch family home at Mundesley, where she and most of her siblings were in the care of a maternal aunt.
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=8767&h=17264925&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=ymY3354&_phstart=successSource

In 1871 Caroline was in Marylebone, at the residence of her eldest sister. I’ve never been able to find a later census reference or a likely marriage or death that fits.
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=try&dbid=7619&h=11083083

Note Sister Beta was Ann Eliza Gooch, who began to call herself Beatrice A E Gooch when she was of employable age. In 1871, although she was recorded as Mrs Weldon, she had never been married and I have no idea who “Mr Weldon” was. She married for the first time in 1877 to Thomas Letherbarrow, calling herself Beatrice Ann Gooch.
I don’t know who visitor Henry Heys was. I see both Henry and Beta declared that they were of independent means and that Caroline was a “milliner.” An interesting household, lol.

Jay

[Merry]

Jay, have you eliminated this death?

Gooch Caroline b 1852 d 1874
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Hackney, London, England

There is a Willam Gooch, aged 4 1/2 hours who was buried two days before Caroline (LMA records on Ancestry). I looked for his birth reg on the GRO index to see if he was illegitimate or not, but I can't find a record for him. There's not a birth reg on FreeBMD either.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

That's interesting about the baby. It will probably be worth my while trying to investigate that and also that specific Caroline death.
To be honest, it's a long time since I worked on this line and I can't remember the ins and outs of all the deaths I did try to chase backwards. I know that some of them turned out to be married women, so obviously were not my lady.

Jay

[Merry]

I think William was born in Hackney WH, so it's quite surprising that his birth wasn't registered.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Interesting to see that both deaths were at Hackney workhouse. I would have expected the staff to have complied with the rules and to have registered both the birth and the death of the child. Unless it wasn't compulsory in 1874?
I certainly hadn't seen that record before, so thank you Merry.
Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Lol, posts crossed!
Jay

[Merry]

Maybe the Hackney Caroline was this one?

1861 Census:

Caroline Gooch, parents William, Harriet b 1852 South Hackney, Middlesex

I've not looked for her in 1871 to see if she was still unmarried. The child might then have been named for her father.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Baby's death seems to have been registered, but not the birth.

Jay

[Merry]

Maybe the Hackney Caroline was this one?

1861 Census:

Caroline Gooch, parents William, Harriet b 1852 South Hackney, Middlesex

I've not looked for her in 1871 to see if she was still unmarried. The child might then have been named for her father.

Hackney Caroline was still with her parents in 1871:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7619/LNDRG10_329_332-0016?pid=29361172&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db%3Duki1871%26indiv%3Dtry%26h%3D29361172&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true

I feel it's quite likely she was the one who died in the WH in 1874.

[Merry]

When I typed my last post I hadn't looked at the 1871 census page, but I see now that Caroline (dau of Wm and Harriet) was recorded as an imbecile. I don't think that would necessarily mean that she can't be the woman who delivered William three years later.

[kiterunner]

There is a Hackney workhouse admission record for a Caroline Gooch 19 Dec 1873, born 1852, calling (i.e. occupation) "nil":
https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/60391/31537_214405-00794?pid=11195471&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx7511&_phstart=successSource

I would imagine she is the same one who had the baby in early 1874, and the same one who was daughter of William and Harriet.

[Merry]

I'm just eating my dinner, but wanted to say I didn't get anywhere with the marriage for a Caroline Gooch in 1873 St Geo. Hanover Square. I didn't even manage to work out for certain which man was the groom!

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thank you Merry and Kite.
I too think the 1874 death reg is most likely for the Hackney Caroline. I think if mine had been pregnant, one of her sisters would have taken her in rather than her having to rely on the Workhouse for support. It seems the Gooch family had rudimentary literacy and calculating skills, although Beta and one of the other sisters each sliced a decade off their ages on marrying.:d
They were also usually quite good about giving correct county of birth, but Caroline Gooch born Lincolnshire isn't much help.

Jay

[kiterunner]

I'm just eating my dinner, but wanted to say I didn't get anywhere with the marriage for a Caroline Gooch in 1873 St Geo. Hanover Square. I didn't even manage to work out for certain which man was the groom!

The other three names on the page are:
John Henry R Miller
Sarah Swanwick
John Thornton.

There are some Thornton / Swanwick births in the subsequent years:
John Harold 1874 Lewisham, Edith Sarah Elizabeth 1875 Hackney, Willmot Francis 1876 Pancras, May Florence 1878 Islington.

On Edith Sarah Elizabeth's baptism, the parents are John and Sarah Anne.

So it looks likely that Caroline Gooch married John Henry R Miller.

[kiterunner]

Not had any luck yet finding John Henry R Miller to see whether his wife was born in Lincolnshire.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

I've not been able to find John Henry and Caroline in 1881 census, nor any Miller/Gooch births.

Jay

[Merry]

There's a John Henry Riggs Miller born/bap in 1853 in Calcutta, but he probably isn't the groom at the 1873 marriage. He did get married in 1882 in Ireland, to Annastatia McInerney, but said he was a bachelor.

[Phoenix]

Thank you Merry and Kite.
I too think the 1874 death reg is most likely for the Hackney Caroline. I think if mine had been pregnant, one of her sisters would have taken her in rather than her having to rely on the Workhouse for support.

Jay

I have to say that I have been shocked at the instances where my family did not step in.

In one case, a man and his child died in the workhouse, and his poor wife, a Londoner, was abandoned to the care of the Poor Law in Norfolk.

In another, children were abused by their step mother, and they ended up in the workhouse, while the half siblings continued in the family.

In the first case, at least, the removal order was from a village where the rest of the family were living.

[Janet in Yorkshire]

Thank you for your contributions Merry and Phoenix.
I do wonder if my Caroline just set up house with someone and took his surname. Still can't follow this theory through with later census records, though.

Jay

[Janet in Yorkshire]

My Caroline Gooch had a brother named James, who married at Islington parish church on 12 April 1880. One of the witnesses was Caroline MILLER - the other was Francis Bingham, probably the father of the bride Mary Bingham.

Good clue or a red herring?

Jay

[kiterunner]

Looks as though it could be a good clue, Jay. I suppose one way to find out is to order the John Henry R Miller / Caroline Gooch marriage cert.