View Full Version : My DNA Results - baffled
Anstey Nomad
20-02-19, 14:28
I have been looking at my DNA results for over two years now and I’m still confused.
I have two second cousins. One I know, the other is a complete mystery. For the record, all my great grandparents are accounted for and none of the names in the second cousin’s tree appear in mine.
I have one third cousin, who is matched with the mysterious second cousin, so she’s a mystery as well. I tried to do the colours thing, but it doesn’t seem to work because I don’t have enough ‘close’ matches.
I then have about 26 pages of fourth cousins and distant cousins and only about six show a link that I can understand. There are a couple of Bodycotes in the US, some Bradburys, an Allen and a Smith. There are however a chunk of matches that also match with the mysterious second and third cousins. Where they have bothered to upload anything like a proper tree, they all have the same marriage showing. This is a marriage in the mid 19th century, in a place where none of my known relatives lived, between two people whose names don’t appear in my tree.
I just can’t get my head round this at all. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how I could start to try to unravel it?
Thanks in advance.
kiterunner
20-02-19, 14:39
AN, if you want to PM me some info such as links to the ancestry profile pages for the second and third cousins and some of the other shared matches, and to your tree if you have one on ancestry, I could have a look and see if I can come up with anything. Though I can't promise I will solve it! I still have loads of DNA matches of my own which I haven't identified how they are related to me, but they are 4th cousins or more distant.
An I did the colour thing for my Dad and I have colours that I can work out what branch they come from. I have an extra column though which is those I can't work out. This column is multi colour coded in that those who relate to each other have the same colour, I just don't know how they relate to me/Dad.
I did the same thing Toni, different colours for different branches and one colour for all the ones with no named connections. It did help to try and sort out where those without family trees would belong - a strong cluster of matches showed they belong to THAT particular line.
The ones I puzzle over are the ones that share DNA with my Dad only, but no-one else - none of his close or even distant cousins. With no other matches, it is impossible to figure out where the common match is and mostly they have no family trees worth anything. I have marked these with a Starred Match symbol, and I check occasionally whether there are any new common matches.
Di
I have an advantage in that Dad's first cousin and a different first cousins son have also tested. So shared matches with them are maternal and the rest paternal. Strangley the first cousin does not match for Dad's grandmother's side at all which helps sort people too.My unknowns are multicoloured though, there are clearly groups of matches, so that group gets it's own colour. I have 2 lines for Dad with no matches so some unknowns fit in there but I don't know who. I'll check for updates in a while, hopefully people put up a tree.
Anstey Nomad
17-06-19, 11:46
And now I have another third cousin, connected to the mysterious second cousin and the other third cousin.
These people are my closest DNA matches and I have no idea who they are!
What I don't quite understand is how the CM thing works.
With the second cousin I know, with whom I share great grandparents, the shared DNA is 315cM across 17 segments.
With the second cousin I don't know, the shared DNA is 291cM across 10 segments.
is that more or less shared DNA overall? is there any merit in dividing the number of cM by the number of segments? I don't know.
Are they mysterious because they have trees you don't recognise, or names you don't recognise? Every relative I manage is under an alias, and only aunt has a tree, so the curious have to contact me for info.
Re dividing cM by segments, it could be 10 x 29cM or 280cM plus 9 fragments. Either way, it's a lot!
kiterunner
17-06-19, 12:50
As far as I know, there is no point dividing the number of cM by the number of segments. The total number of cM is the most important number. But I don't think you can read anything into the fact that one is a bit lower than the other with such high numbers.
My offer to have a look into it if you PM me some info still stands.
Anstey Nomad
17-06-19, 15:06
Phoenix, these people are completely unknown to me. Two are in Australia and one is in the US. All have trees online, which I can see, and all have the same people in their trees. They all go back to a marriage in MQ1878 in Caistor Registration District in Lincolnshire, which is not even my part of the world. They are great grand-daughters, or great great grand-daughters of that marriage.
I have none of their names in my tree and they have none of mine in theirs.
Do we have relatively large amounts of DNA in common then?
maggie_4_7
17-06-19, 15:41
With that much cMs it would be fairly close, possibly descendants of one of your grandparents siblings.
I have a match with that much and they are a descendant of my maternal grandmother's younger sister.
kiterunner
17-06-19, 15:49
AN, if you click on the "i" in a circle next to the amount of shared DNA, it will show the possible relationships and which ones are more likely.
Anstey Nomad
18-06-19, 11:10
That's not really helping. Maybe I need one of those ice bag things to concentrate the mind.
maggie_4_7
18-06-19, 12:38
Check both sets of your grandparents and check you have all their siblings and marriages and maiden names if appropriate then go check one of the trees and start with their Grandparents and work backwards and check siblings and maiden names and marriages, have a good look at the maiden names because I have noticed on some of my matches they have some maiden names incorrect.
Or am I asking you to suck eggs :D
I'm quivering faintly at the suggestion, but have you DNA proved your ancestors? (I know the Bodycotes are okay!)
For quite some time I thought that Granny must be a changeling, and there is very little proof for most of her family, which is deeply frustrating.
There is also the possibility someone had a child no one else knows, or speaks, about on Anstey's side of the family.
Anstey Nomad
15-07-19, 12:37
The other three people all have in their trees a marriage in 1878. I have the names of the parties to the marriage, but they mean nothing to me.
My grandparents' siblings were all born between 1869 and 1906 and all are accounted for, so they can't be descendants of any of them, can they?
Phoenix, what do you mean by have I DNA proved my ancestors?
Possibilities:
This is pure chance
One of their ancestors was the lodger
One of your ancestors was the lodger
Have you got confirmed DNA matches for your grandparents?
Anstey Nomad
16-07-19, 11:17
How likely is pure chance, when I have three people, that closely (relatively) related to me, plus a load of distants matching with us all?
Lodgers, who knows?
Confirmed DNA matches. The closest is the second cousin I know about, where we have great grandparents in common. She’s not in doubt. We have the same family photos.
Other than that I have another second cousin and two third cousins, all the mystery people and then the more distant matches. My more distant matches generally confirm the Bodycote connection (yay!) and some other lines where people emigrated to the US in the middle of the 19th century. The rest are a complete mystery.
I’m still baffled.
Margaret in Burton
16-07-19, 20:24
You’re baffled?
I certainly am. I’ve contacted one person so far who apparently is a third cousin to my daughter. Not my side. No tree to see and no reply. The only people who seem to have tested are people I already knew about a long time ago.
I'm baffled too but I know the relationship. Any family member of Dad's great aunt that I have discovered over the years will not respond and I don't know why. I know statistically we wont get a response from everyone but a whole branch is not communicating. I'm beginning to imagine family secrets and fights.
Anstey Nomad
10-10-19, 09:05
I've checked my DNA results this morning and I now have:
One 2nd-3rd cousin who is accounted for. She is true second cousin - great grandparents in common and 315cM across 17 segments.
Two 2nd-3rd cousins with 291cMs over 10 segments and 248 cMs over 9 segments respectively. These two match with me and with each other.
I then have two 3rd-4th cousins who match with me, with each other and with the two 2nd-3rd cousins.
These are my closest DNA matches, so I have a cluster of four who are connected to each other and somehow to me, but I still don't know how.
Hobbs! Bring me an ice pack!
maggie_4_7
10-10-19, 10:50
Sorry is it these you can't account for:
3-4 cousins who match with me
...and these other two you can:
Two 2-3 cousins with 291cMs over 10 segments and 248 cMs over 9 segments respectively
Or not them either?
Anstey Nomad
10-10-19, 12:23
I've edited my post. Is it clearer now?
Do these mystery cousins match any other DNA matches?
Do you have any other DNA matches you can tie up with each of your 8 great grandparents?
Anstey Nomad
10-10-19, 14:40
The mystery cousins are attracting other, more distant matches so yes, there is a cluster, which doesn't seem to help me. I don't know about the new one as she doesn't have a tree, but the other three are all descended from the same marriage, which doesn't seem to be anything to do with me.
The only match that I can definitively tie up with my great grandparents is the second cousin I know. Every other match is 4th - 6th cousin or more distant.
Anstey Nomad
13-10-19, 13:42
Trying another tack, I would like to know where my great grandfather Joseph Rowbotham/Roebottom/ Robottom was in 1851. He was born in Frieston (or sometimes Caythorpe) in Lincolnshire in 1819.
I've got him on the other censuses, but the Ancestry search is playing up again and even with wild cards a request for results born in Lincs and living in Lincs is giving me hundreds of irrelevant matches from all over the country, which is frustrating to say the least.
I'd like to establish that he wasn't anywhere near the small.circumscribed area of north Lincolnshire where all my mysterious matches originate.
Thanks
Assuming you mean Claythorpe not Caythorpe which is Lincolnshire but Newark way?
Which part of north Lincolnshire are you looking to find him...hopefully.
kiterunner
13-10-19, 14:30
Sorry to say that wildcards don't work in the place / location fields on Ancestry any more, AN. I'll have a look for him though.
Could this be him:
Joseph Rowbottan b1815 CLAYPOLE??? could have been misheard?
AG Lab at Bracebridge, Lincoln
https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=MxB1761&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&dbid=8860&cp=0&_F0005C4F=2105&_F0005E11=109&_F0005906=14&new=1&rank=1&uidh=5u8&redir=false&msT=1&gss=angs-d&pcat=35&fh=12&h=9953915&recoff=&ml_rpos=13
Don't know if this is him. Spellings are ancestry's. Single.
Joseph Rowbottan b abt 1815 Claypole, Lincolnshire , England, Servant. Bracebridge, Lincolnshire
Sorry to say that wildcards don't work in the place / location fields on Ancestry any more, AN. I'll have a look for him though.
I've never used those fields, because results I knew to be there were often missing. If I want to use a wildcard in a place name I put it I the Keyword box.
kiterunner
13-10-19, 14:45
I used to do that, Merry, but wildcards don't seem to work very well in the keywords box either nowadays.
Anstey Nomad
13-10-19, 14:46
I was trying to use wild cards for the name because I knew it was misspelt, but never mind. You have both located the entry we decided some years ago had to be him. Claypole is not far from Caythorpe by present day standards, the birth year is only four years out and there is no better candidate.
Bracebridge, sadly, is south of Lincoln, whereas I wondered if he might be in the broad area of Nettleton, which is very much north Lincolnshire. Back to the drawing board.
I used to do that, Merry, but wildcards don't seem to work very well in the keywords box either nowadays.
Don't say that! I've not had any problems yet!
Margaret in Burton
13-10-19, 20:02
I was trying to use wild cards for the name because I knew it was misspelt, but never mind. You have both located the entry we decided some years ago had to be him. Claypole is not far from Caythorpe by present day standards, the birth year is only four years out and there is no better candidate.
Bracebridge, sadly, is south of Lincoln, whereas I wondered if he might be in the broad area of Nettleton, which is very much north Lincolnshire. Back to the drawing board.
Again we have ancestors from the same place. First Long Bennington and now Claypole. One day we will establish that link
Anstey Nomad
14-10-19, 16:00
We’re not Claypole, we’re Firestone and Caythorpe. However, there is a family in Long Bennington, with the same name. That’s Bill Owen’s family and people used to comment all the time about how similar he and my dad were.
I also, I noticed the other day, have a Newey in my DNA matches. Probably best not go there?
Margaret in Burton
14-10-19, 16:12
We’re not Claypole, we’re Firestone and Caythorpe. However, there is a family in Long Bennington, with the same name. That’s Bill Owen’s family and people used to comment all the time about how similar he and my dad were.
I also, I noticed the other day, have a Newey in my DNA matches. Probably best not go there?
Newey very common in the Birmingham area.
Just for curiosity where’s the Newey from and what’s the first name?
Anstey Nomad
14-10-19, 20:19
Username removed - no clues as to name, no searchable tree. Dang! Shared matches with my mystery people.
kiterunner
14-10-19, 22:05
AN, I have edited the Ancestry username out of your post since it could be used to identify the person. But you could PM it to Marg.
Anstey Nomad
15-10-19, 10:36
I did think about that, but I figured with an alias and no tree, it would be a long shot, Sorry.
Anstey Nomad
23-10-19, 08:27
I am particularly aggrieved now I have access to Mr Nomad’s results, which are very straightforward. Looking at trees, I can often see instantly where the connection is, and one match has already gone a long way to proving a family story.
*sighs deeply*
If it were easy, it would be boring.
If it were easy, it would be boring.
True. I'm happy to work at it but I'd like to know it was possible.
However, there is a family in Long Bennington, with the same name. That’s Bill Owen’s family and people used to comment all the time about how similar he and my dad were.
Being way too nosy for my own good, I read the above having seen your recent FB post. Thought I'd look at it seeing as I don't have to go to work until this afternoon. I can't make his line go back to the right county :o There are quite a few trees on Ancestry that also don't go back to Lincs, but also all have a cracking mistake in the 1840/1850s with a ten-year-old boy getting married.
Was the LB connection a long way before 1837?
Cup of tea and then I'll be gone, so I won't be doing any more prodding! :D
EDIT - I've just realised, maybe you meant there is a different line coming forward that lived at LB? Anyway, I can't get the line I looked at to reach back to Lincolnshire.
I am late to join this thread but lately I have doing quite a bit with our family DNA.
We are getting quite a group of DNA on Ancestry, which sometimes help, but often not.
So Dad has three grand-daughters and one nephew as matches, (mine is only on FTDNA). Matches with his grand-daughters vary from 2031 to 1623 cMs and his nephew is at 1980.
There are over 20 "second" and "cousins", many from his paternal line, but I would use those terms very loosely.
Those Ancestry defines as second cousins vary from 472 to 253 cMs, and thirds from 190 to 90 cMs. I know none of them are first cousins to Dad, but the second cousins include first cousins once removed to 2nd cousins once removed. One second cousin shares 253cM and his grand-daughter has 62.
One third cousin once removed shares 84. He has a group of matching rellos who I would never have known about, as they are all in the US, but when his name came up on the matches list, I recognised it from my earlier research and so could fit them all into my tree.
In total, I have marked 90 DNA samples as belonging to my Dad's paternal line - many have family trees but some I still dont know where they fit in, only that they match several others who I do know.
I have been reading about pedigree collapse and endogamy, meaning the marriage of related persons, cousins and such and wonder if that might have happened to you, which might make the DNA matches higher (well, I think so, but I am not entirely sure).
I guess what I am trying to say is dont take the second and third cousins as absolute and look wider afield. Can you trace down from the common marriage and see where the mystery cousins are linked ?
Di
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