Who is Mrs Sarah Gildart?

[Merry]

Here's my next minor conundrum!

Francis Gildart's first wife was called Mary. No children, or no surviving children. She died in 1768 and was buried at St Mary's Hampton (Richmond-upon-Thames), Middlesex 4 Sept 1768.

(I'm not entirely sure who Mary was either, but at last there are some possible marriages, though any in the Liverpool area probably cousins of this Francis Gildart)

So, after Sept 1768 Francis Gildart married a Sarah. She outlived him and is mentioned in his will dated 28 Dec 1784.

In Francis's will he states if he dies at Tilbury in Essex he wants to be buried at Shadwell, Essex (presume he means Chadwell, as Shadwell is in Middlesex). If he dies anywhere else then he wants to be buried in the churchyard at Hampton, Middlesex (where his first wife was buried - though he doesn't mention that).

Francis died in Jan 1785 and was buried at Chadwell, Essex 16 Jan 1785. Presumably he died at Tilbury as this was only a short time after his will was signed.

His widow, Sarah, died in late 1794. In her will (signed 5 Sept 1794) she describes herself as of Leicester St, St Ann's, Westminster. She asks that she be buried near her late husband, but says that would be at "the burial ground at Hampton in Middlesex". She is duly buried at Hampton 2 Dec 1794.

So, was the burial thing just a mistake - did she forget where Francis was buried, or did she have two husband's and forgot to mention it was an earlier husband who was buried at Hampton? I keep thinking it's not a big deal, but then it keeps bugging me!

Plus who is she anyway? I can't see any marriage to fit this couple.

[Merry]

Forgot to say, in Sarah's will she leaves stuff to numerous relations. I suppose it should be possible to work out who she is from that!!

[kiterunner]

These are the people mentioned:

William Burgess of Oxford Street, St Marylebone, Middlesex, Gentleman
my niece Mary Jollands now resident in Leicester Street
my nephew John Spencer of Compton Street, St Ann Westminster, tailor
Elizabeth Piper of Great Portland Street, St Marylebone
my niece Elizabeth Chidley of Crown Street, St Ann Westminster
John Marshall of Ogle Court, St Marylebone, tailor
Charlotte Chidley, daughter of the aforementioned Elizabeth

[kiterunner]

Charlotte Chidley was baptised in 1778, daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth.
Joseph Chidley married Elizabeth Spencer 2 Oct 1769 Hampton, Middlesex.

[kiterunner]

There is a PCC will of Thomas Spencer, butcher, of Hampton, proved in 1765, which mentions his sons Robert and Edward and daughters Mary Ann Elizabeth and Salley (I don't know whether there was one called Mary Ann or two called Mary and Ann due to lack of punctuation!)

[Merry]

Oooh, thanks for listing them Kate. That was my next job.

I wonder if Salley and Sarah are the same person? - Perhaps not the person I'm looking for, but maybe a family where the alternative name Sally is used for Sarah?

[kiterunner]

That was my first thought, but I think Sarah would be more likely to be Thomas's sister with Salley perhaps being named after her. Thomas didn't mention a son John in his will, so maybe he had a brother who had a son called John?

[Merry]

Yes, once I was back reading your post at home and not on my phone, I realised Salley would be the wrong generation.

[Merry]

Those children for Thomas Spencer are too young for the one called Elizabeth to have been married in 1769:

Children of Thomas Spencer and Jo(h)anna(h), all bap Hampton, Middlesex

26 Jun 1748 Robert
15 Apr 1751 Mary
20 Nov 1753 Thomas
30 Mar 1756 Edward
8 Sept 1761 Elizabeth
18 Oct 1763 Sally

[kiterunner]

OK, so Thomas isn't much help then!

[kiterunner]

I haven't managed to find an image for Joseph Chidley and Elizabeth Spencer's actual marriage record yet, only the banns. So I don't know who the witnesses were.

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch has the following baptisms for children of Joseph Chidley and Elizabeth, though of course they might not all belong to the same couple:

Anne 13 Aug 1773 Kingston on Thames
Thomas 21 Dec 1774 Kingston on Thames
Samuel 18 Aug 1776 St James Westminster
Charlotte 15 Feb 1778 St James Westminster
Richard William 25 Apr 1779 St Mary, Marylebone
Mary 22 Oct 1780 St Mary, Marylebone
Sarah Linney 11 Jun 1784 St Mary, Marylebone

[Merry]

I was looking for the burials of Joseph and Eliz Chidley in the hope of getting approximate ages, to no avail.

[kiterunner]

FMP has a Joseph Chidley's burial 18 Sep 1810 at St Anne Soho, age 65, poor and in the workhouse. And an Elizabeth Chidley 24 Nov 1797, also St Anne Soho, age 55, workhouse, half dues.

[Merry]

Oh, thanks. I don't trust Ancestry search at all now. I know I searched Soho for them!

[Merry]

Oh, thanks. I don't trust Ancestry search at all now. I know I searched Soho for them!

Forget that. I didn't consider Soho = Westminster which very often means FMP rather than Ancestry. :o

[Merry]

Charlotte Chidley was baptised in 1778, daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth.
Joseph Chidley married Elizabeth Spencer 2 Oct 1769 Hampton, Middlesex.


Here's the marriage entry for Joseph and Elizabeth:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1623/31280_199386-00383/4701416?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dlmamarriages%26cp%3d11%26gskw %3dHAMPTON%26gskw_x%3d1%26msgdy%3d1769%26msgdy_x%3 d1%26qh%3daJW59zVxagmUKd5xqvDuVw%253d%253d%26hc%3d 50%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26redir%3dfalse%26uidh%3d6 72&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Not sure the witnesses are any help :(

[ElizabethHerts]

Will of Phanuel Cook:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5111/40611_311462-00371/512084?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

[Merry]

Thank you Elizabeth.

[Merry]

Charlotte Chidley was baptised in 1778, daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth.
Joseph Chidley married Elizabeth Spencer 2 Oct 1769 Hampton, Middlesex.

FMP has a Joseph Chidley's burial 18 Sep 1810 at St Anne Soho, age 65, poor and in the workhouse. And an Elizabeth Chidley 24 Nov 1797, also St Anne Soho, age 55, workhouse, half dues.

So, Elizabeth Spencer, later Chidley, was the niece of Sarah Gildart. So one of Elizabeth's parents was Sarah's sibling.

I wonder if this is Elizabeth's baptism? Sunbury on Thames is 2 miles from Hampton.

Elizabeth Spencer
Baptism 25 Dec 1744
St Mary, Sunbury on Thames, Richmond upon Thames, Middlesex
Henry and Rebecca

She had two brothers bap the same place - Francis 1740 and Henry 1742. <<<<< no Francis or Henry in Sarah Gildart's will though.

Henry Spencer married Rebecca Self 8 Mar 1738 at the Collegiate Church of St Katherine by the Tower, City of London.

This is definitely the right couple as their marriage allegation, dated 8 Mar 1738 gives Henry's details as "Henry Spencer of Hampton, County of Middlesex, wheelwright, a bachelor aged 23 years". Rebecca is "of Teddington in the same county, spinster aged 23 years". So, they were both born about 1715.

This is probably Rebecca:

Rebecca Self Baptism Jan 1714 St Giles in the Fields, Holborn, Camden. Samuel and Hannah

I couldn't make her have a sister called Sarah, so maybe Henry Spencer's sister?

It has been estimated from army records that Francis Gildart who Sarah married, was born about 1820. I had imagined Sarah to be younger than him, though if she had a sibling born 1715 then she may not have been as young as I had expected, and she might well have been married previously. None of this is helping!!

[Merry]

In 1794 Sarah's will mentions:

my nephew John Spencer of Compton Street, St Ann Westminster, tailor (thank you Kate!)

This burial might be a child of his....

3 Jan 1799 Henry Spencer, Compton Street, aged 12 months, whooping cough.

There's also this one (fabulous info and handwriting in the St Ann's Soho registers - if only others had been as good!):

5 Feb 1792 Frederick Jonathan Spencer, Compton Street, aged 3 years, boil in the stomach

Now to see if either of those are the children of John, a tailor......Best bet to try Frederick Jonathan first..... *crosses everything*….


Bother!! Parents Henry and Catherine! No address and no occupation given.

No sign of a son called Henry for this couple either:

Henry Spencer m Catherine Davies 31 Mar 1785 St James Piccadilly. By licence. Both signed, witnesses John Lyall and Allison Lyall.

The marriage allegation states bachelor and spinster, both aged 21 and upward and, unhelpfully, that Henry is a gentleman!

[Merry]

3 Jan 1799 Henry Spencer, Compton Street, aged 12 months, whooping cough.

There's a possible baptism at St James Piccadilly April 1798 for a child born Dec 1797 which may be the above Henry. Parents James and Elizabeth.

I'm slightly losing the will to live at the moment though, so might come back to this later.