Help please - name confusions

[Margaret in Burton]

I have the marriage of William John Lally and Elizabeth Luke march qtr 1863 in Aston.

FMP has the parish record

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=R_846306726

It gives his fathers name as Michael Shephard Lally.

William John Lally's birth was registered in 1841 at St James Clerkenwell. MMN HEBBARD

A marriage between Michael Sheppard Lally and Sarah Hebbard is on Family Search for 6 June 1836 at St Andrews Holborn

1841 census has Michael, Sarah and daughter Ann Lally at St James Clerkenwell. Michael is a tailor born in Ireland.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8978/MDXHO107_659_660-0263?pid=6993079&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true#?_phcmd=u('https:%2F%2Fwww.ancestry.co .uk%2Fsearch%2Fcategories%2F1841uki%2F%3Fname%3Dsa rah_lally%26name_x%3D1_1%26successSource%3DSearch' ,'successSource')&imageId=MDXHO107_659_660-0263

I can't find them in 1851 but in 1861 Sarah's husband is John H Sheppard same as as Michael should be, a tailor and born in Ireland. All the family are called Sheppard now. Definitely the same family as William has the same occupation as in 1871 (watch hand maker)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/WARRG9_2152_2155-0761?pid=21045297&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?dbid%3D8767%26h%3D21045297%26indiv%3Dtry%2 6o_vc%3DRecord:OtherRecord%26rhSource%3D7572&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true


1871 John Henry Shepperd is a widower and living with William and his family as are William's siblings. John Henry was born in Westport, County Mayo.
Ann's occupation of actress made me smile, Sarah is a ballet girl.

https://www.ancestry.com/interactive/7619/WARRG10_3090_3093-0408?pid=2836668&backurl=https://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db%3Duki1871%26indiv%3Dtry%26h%3D2836668&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true


Are Michael Shepperd Lally and John Henry Shepperd the same man?
I haven't found a death for Michael.

Or

Did Sarah marry his brother /cousin? I can't find another marriage for her.

[Merry]

I'm not answering your question, but the last child registered as Lally is this one:

Births Dec 1849

LALLY Charles Michael W London 2 257 (mmn Hebbard)


Deaths Jun 1850

LALLY Charles Clerkenwell 3 56

(aged 9 months at burial in June 1850 address Margaret St, Clerkenwell)

[Margaret in Burton]

I'm not answering your question, but the last child registered as Lally is this one:

Births Dec 1849

LALLY Charles Michael W London 2 257 (mmn Hebbard)


Deaths Jun 1850

LALLY Charles Clerkenwell 3 56

(aged 9 months at burial in June 1850 address Margaret St, Clerkenwell)


I think the name change happened when they moved from London to Birmingham.

I've found two children born in Birmingham MMN Hebbard

Henry Lally Sheppard b 1853
Sarah Sheppard b 1854

[Margaret in Burton]

So, 1851 they could either in in London or Birmingham or somewhere in between :confused::confused:

[ElizabethHerts]

I don't know if you have Sarah's death, Marg, but this looks like it:

SHEPPARD, SARAH 55
GRO Reference: 1870 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 26

[Margaret in Burton]

I don't know if you have Sarah's death, Marg, but this looks like it:

SHEPPARD, SARAH 55
GRO Reference: 1870 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 26

No, I hadn't got that far Liza. I saw that John Henry, or was he Michael, was a widower in 1871.

Thank you

[Margaret in Burton]

He's reverted to his real name on death

Michael Sheppard Lally Sep qtr 1893 Birmingham 6d 96 aged 81

[Margaret in Burton]

I've found him as John Henry Sheppard in 1881 and 1891. He's remarried to a Selina.

Marriage was 1873 In Birmingham. Jun qtr 6d 224

Michael Sheppard Lally to Selina Jones.

This bloke doesn't know what his name is from one minute to the next.:D

[ElizabethHerts]

I have found a John H Sheppard in Wellington, Shropshire in 1851:


https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1851%2f0010788715

He is a tailor, says he is married, born in Ireland, but he's by himself.


Archive reference HO107
Piece number 1997
Folio 154
Page 17

[Margaret in Burton]

So, the question is .........

Why did he keep changing his name?

His children used the name Sheppard. His son William John Lally b 1841 kept the name William John Sheppard. He died in 1918 in Birmingham.

[Margaret in Burton]

I have found a John H Sheppard in Wellington, Shropshire in 1851:


https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1851%2f0010788715

He is a tailor, says he is married, born in Ireland, but he's by himself.


Archive reference HO107
Piece number 1997
Folio 154
Page 17

Thanks Liza, I’ll look at that

[Margaret in Burton]

Merry

You are good at old newspapers. Is there anything in those that might relate to this family?
They seem to use the Lally name on GRO stuff but census seems like anything goes.

[Merry]

lol I will have a look.

Other thoughts were:

Wanted to use a less Irish name

Left London (and name) behind because of some criminal endeavour

Had two surnames originally because of illegitimacy, or because of remarriage of mother and chose to switch between them.

Or a combo of some/all of these, or something else entirely!

[Margaret in Burton]

Can I throw this into the mix?

Occupations

Tailor

Gold watch hand maker

Jewellery repairer

Could this family be Jews? I’m thinking back to Wallaby’s search on FTF and the family keep changing names. There was a link to Ireland there too.

Please tell me if I’m going ga ga

[Merry]

This doesn't help us particularly...…..

Birmingham Daily Post 24 November 1865

In the matter of JOHN HENRY SHEPPARD, residing in Lodgings, at No. 49., Blucher Street, Birmingham, in the county of Warwick, previously in lodgings at No. 4. Albion Place, New John Street West, Birmingham aforesaid, Tailor's foreman, adjudged Bankrupt on the 4th day of October, 1865.

[Merry]

He seems to have been in financial difficulty 1863-65 in Birmingham and there are numerous newspaper clippings. not fount anything for Michael Sheppard Lally yet.

[Margaret in Burton]

He’s Michael Lally in 1841 and John Henry Sheppard in 1861.

It’s the 1851 that is missing although it is possible Liza found him in Shropshire in 1851 but where are the rest of the family?

[Phoenix]

I did wonder if there was any significance in there being a William Sheppard a couple of doors away in 1861. He, however, came from Hampshire, with some children born in Lambeth, before he moved to Birmingham.

[Margaret in Burton]

I did wonder if there was any significance in there being a William Sheppard a couple of doors away in 1861. He, however, came from Hampshire, with some children born in Lambeth, before he moved to Birmingham.

I’ll have a look at that later, about to go out. I hadn’t noticed that.


Edit

I think that’s a coincidence.

[Margaret in Burton]

I’ve discovered some of the children used Lally as a second forename, well it’s listed in death indexes. Daughter Ann remained unmarried and her name at death was Ann Lally Sheppard. Some of the other just had an L, for example Matthew Henry L Sheppard. So they seemed to use Lally Sheppard or Sheppard Lally.
Doesn’t explain why Michael became known as John Henry though but reverted to Michael upon death.

[Phoenix]

I seem to recall that Nell had a problem with an Irishman using two different names.

I wonder if Michael is a baptismal name, rather than the name he was born with?

[Margaret in Burton]

I seem to recall that Nell had a problem with an Irishman using two different names.

I wonder if Michael is a baptismal name, rather than the name he was born with?

I can’t find anything in Irish records. I have discovered from his second marriage record that his fathers name was Michael too. Michael Lally. Perhaps his mothers maiden name was Sheppard.

[Kit]

He may not have reverted to his original name at death but whoever registered it did it in his real name as it is a legal document.

[Olde Crone]

Kit

In the UK there was no such thing as a legal name. Your name is whatever you call yourself as long as there is no intention to criminally deceive or impersonate.

OC

[Kit]

Thanks OC.

Here we can change our name but we have to stick to one at a time.

I thought we had to assume a new name but couldn't change it legally until we had used it for a year but I know a family that changed their surname basically on a whim and changed one of the kids names totally.

There is no one central place to record name changes though. In QLD they can go into a local court and do it so unless you know to go looking at that court the change of name is totally untraceable.