Can someone help with a Scottish birth please

[Joan of Archives]

Been ages since I much research due to brick walls, so bear with me :d I am tracking back on a family link that previously I had given up on, as the marriage certificate I ordered years ago, had no Christian name for the father & proved impossible to trace. However as FMP had a free weekend I looked at the Yorkshire Parish records & low & behold, that copy had the full name!!! No idea why mine didn't? Anyway now I have got a little bit further I am stuck on finding the maiden name of Edward Hoyle's wife, Ann, she is shown as born in Ireland on the census, but as he seems to have been a professional soldier I think it is probable she was English but born to a military family. I have one child born in Scotland in approx 1845.

James HOYLE born circa 1845 Glasgow

If some kind person can tell me anything about his mother's maiden name that would be great thank you :)

[kiterunner]

That was before the start of civil registration in Scotland, Joanie, and I can't find a baptism for him in Scotland. But he had quite a few siblings, so hopefully we can figure it out from some of them.
For reference:
1851 census - 5 Meadow Street, Preston, Lancashire
Edward Hoyle Head Mar 55 Pensioner Yorkshire Leeds
Ann Do Wife Mar 45 Ireland
William Hoyle Son U 20 Painter Kent Chatham
Richard Do Son 12 Scholar Devonshire Devonport
Charles Do Son 10 Do Ireland
Ann Ellen Do Daur 8 Do Do
James Do Son 6 Scotland Glasgow
Mary Brazell Visitor Mar 33 Domestic Duties Scotland ?????(poss Glasgow but I'm not sure)
Mary Robinson Visitor Mar 30 Do Ireland.

[kiterunner]

The online GRO birth index has a Richard Hoyle birth registered Apr-Jun 1839 Stoke Damerel, MMN Coghlen.

[kiterunner]

Some baptisms from FamilySearch:
1 Nov 1829 St Mary's, Chatham, Kent: Mary Ann Hoyle, parents Edward Hoyle and Ann
10 Sep 1833 Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland: Helen Hoyle, parents Edward Hoyle and Ann Cockland
20 Mar 1836 Milton-next-Sittingbourne, Kent: Ann Hoyle, parents Edward Hoyle and Ann Hoyle.

Cockland looks like a variant of Coghlen.

The Helen Hoyle baptism in Glasgow comes up in the OPR records on Scotland's People, rather than the Roman Catholic records, and those other baptisms are presumably C of E, so if Edward and Ann got married in Ireland it is unlikely to be in the Catholic records, and could be in the Church of Ireland parish registers, many of which haven't survived.

[kiterunner]

There is a public tree on ancestry which has Edward Hoyle marrying Ann or Nancy Cocklin 2 Nov 1824 at Chatham, Kent. No source given, so we will need to see if we can find it somewhere.

[kiterunner]

Yes, now I know where to look, that marriage comes up on FamilySearch with her name as Nancy Cocklin.

[JayG]

Kate that marriage is recorded in the Thames & Medway marriage record set on FMP but there's no image.

[Joan of Archives]

Oh wow Kate, that's brilliant! I've sent off for a PDF cert for Richard, hopefully that will confirm what her maiden name was. I had trouble finding the family on a couple of years on FMP, I clicked the image but it showed the wrong page each time, no Hoyles on there :rolleyes:

[Joan of Archives]

That marriage would make her 13 at the time Kate is that possible? Although obviously her birth year on most of the censuses were approx 1811 ?

[kiterunner]

Ann is 45 on the 1851 census, which would mean she was born about 1805-6, so 18 or 19 when they married.

[kiterunner]

The marriage is on FreeREG - marriage by banns, bachelor and spinster, witnesses Thomas Quiglay and J Whiffin.

[Joan of Archives]

Ann is 45 on the 1851 census, which would mean she was born about 1805-6, so 18 or 19 when they married.

Thanks Kate, that's weird as I think she is younger on later ones :confused: Now I'm worried he remarried later to another Ann! Surely he would't marry another Irish one though? :d

[Joan of Archives]

Ah I have found it, on the 1871 census she is put down as 60 years old :rolleyes: So either she was knocking off a few years, or he has remarried a younger (Irish) model lol :d

[Joan of Archives]

And can you find them on the 1841 Kate? I can't seem to find them anywhere, but I think they could have been in Ireland :)

[Merry]

And can you find them on the 1841 Kate? I can't seem to find them anywhere, but I think they could have been in Ireland :)

If you're talking about the Hoyle family, on the 1851 census Kate posted they have a ten-year-old born in Ireland, so maybe that's where they were.

EDIT Oh that's what you said! lol I only read your first sentence :o

[Joan of Archives]

Lol Merry I wondered where you were :D I have found Edward's war pension records on FMP free weekend, but I need some help translating a paragraph :rolleyes: I can't post it here I guess, so would someone like me to email them a ss to translate? :D

[kiterunner]

You can email it to me if you like, Joanie - I'll PM you my email address in case you don't have it to hand.

[JBee]

Don't think it helps in your case but for reference

if someone dies in Scotland after 1855 it often gives the person's parents names including mother's maiden names (if known) on their death certificate. This helped me when someone was born c1799 in Ireland and died in 1863 in Edinburgh unfortunately didn't help with finding out where in Ireland he was born.

[Oakum Picker]

Don't know if it's relevant but an Edward HOYLE & Ann COGHLAN baptised a son Edward in Cork City 7/7/1824.

You probably need a look at his musters to see where he was & when.