Queensland marriage assistance needed

[Macbev]

In the newspaper report of an application for divorce in 1904, Catherine Eleanor O'Connor stated she married John O'Connor 29th July 1896 in Brisbane, Qld. Apparently, the couple moved to NSW for a short time before coming to W.A where John held a position with the Lands Department as a civil engineer.


I cannot find a relevant record on the Qld family History BMDs and wonder if the marriage took place in a RC church -I have one of these with another rellie, whose RC Qld marriage was not registered with the State.


Two children, William, b. abt 1899 and Kath(erine?/ leen?) b. abt 1901 resulted from the marriage.


I need to know Catherine Eleanor's maiden name .......extrapolating from a grave record in Albany, WA, she would have been born ca 1881,[most likely in WA] thus a minor on marriage. She appears in the obit notices of siblings and half siblings whose only connection seem to be via their mother.....[Elizabeth Reed, formerly McCall formerly Janes nee Ahern]....but that is the only indication I have that Elizabeth had an extra daughter.



It would not surprise me if Catherine had been adopted, given Elizabeth's track record of shedding children on making a new marriage......but I would like to know.


Thanks in advance for any help someone with access to Qld records may be able to offer

[marquette]

Do you think this might be it, almost right year, but in Bathurst NSW ? Maybe this was not her first marriage ?

2753/1895 O'CONNOR JOHN O'DONNELL CATHERINE T - BATHURST

Are there children mentioned in the divorce?

Children of this marriage would seem to be Margaret A (1896) and Mary T (1900), but maybe not if they were in WA by then. (although the mother is given as Catherine A, not T or E)
There's also a James born 1895 at Taralga (south of Bathurst) and a John J in 1904 in Balmain but I am not at all sure they are the same family. Does this fit with anything else you know ?

Di

[kiterunner]

The two children are aged 6 and 4 in the newspaper reports of the divorce, so should have been born 1897-8 (boy) and 1899-1900 (girl).

[Macbev]

Her name is given as Catherine Eleanor. She later married Samuel James Barrow (1938, Albany WA) and the grave for Catherine Barrow says she was the mother of Kath and Bill O'Connor.
I know I have the correct person as

1. the notice of death of Alexander Reed in 1919 names Mrs C. O'Connor and Mrs Huxtable as sisters.

2. In 1949, the notice of death of Michael McCall names Martha (Mrs Huxtable ) and Katie (Mrs Barrow of Albany) as step sisters. Martha, Alexander and Michael are all known to be children of the much married Elizabeth named in my original post


The 1919 notice states that Mrs C. O'Connor was recently returned, so I gather she had not always been living in Albany after her divorce.

[Macbev]

Do you think this might be it, almost right year, but in Bathurst NSW ? Maybe this was not her first marriage ?

2753/1895 O'CONNOR JOHN O'DONNELL CATHERINE T - BATHURST

Are there children mentioned in the divorce?

Children of this marriage would seem to be Margaret A (1896) and Mary T (1900), but maybe not if they were in WA by then. (although the mother is given as Catherine A, not T or E)
There's also a James born 1895 at Taralga (south of Bathurst) and a John J in 1904 in Balmain but I am not at all sure they are the same family. Does this fit with anything else you know ?




Di


Di, I don't think that can be the correct marriage - she states quite categorically she was married in Brisbane and is very specific about the date of the event.. Those are not the correct children either -and I have not found any mention of more than two.

[kiterunner]

There is a death on the WA index: 1958 Catherine Barrow age 76, parents William and Catherine, district Plantagenet (fits with the 1940 Samuel J Barrow death in Plantagenet.)

This is Samuel's obituary:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70417009?searchTerm=%22samuel%20james%20barrow%22% 20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&searchLimits=exactPhrase=samuel+james+barrow|||any Words|||notWords|||requestHandler|||dateFrom|||dat eTo

Names of mourners include W. O'Connor, and those laying floral tributes include "Kath and Ernie", "Will and Clare".

[kiterunner]

The WA marriage index has a Kathleen Oconnor marrying Ernest R Oldroyd in 1930 in Perth. Possible for Kath and Ernie. Though I suppose Kath more likely to have married a few years earlier than that.

[kiterunner]

I've been looking through the electoral registers for Albany, and there is a Catherine O'Connor, laundress, at Duke Street 1914-1918, then at Parade Street 1921-1925. In 1925 William James O'Connor, factory employee, is at the same address. Then Catherine is at South Street from 1931 to 1937, with William James, farmer, at the same address in 1936 and 1937.
In 1943 Catherine Barrow, home duties, is at 4 South Street, and William James O'Connor, textile worker, is at Campbell Road with Clare May O'Connor, home duties.

[Macbev]

I think the South st address may be right. However, I have trouble reconciling the laundress in Duke st with my Catherine -would she do that after making her living as a music teacher?


So far, I jave had little luck in finding either William or Kathleen in trove - guess they lived quiet lives :) Thanks for your effort trawling Ancestry - a few promising leads there

[kiterunner]

More electoral rolls: 1903 and 1906 North Fremantle, O'Connor Catherine, Napier road, musician.

[kiterunner]

I think the South st address may be right. However, I have trouble reconciling the laundress in Duke st with my Catherine -would she do that after making her living as a music teacher?
She is a laundress at Parade Street in the 1920's, and William James O'Connor is also at Parade Street in 1925. Then she is a laundress at South Street in the 1930's and again, William James O'Connor is with her on some of those.

[kiterunner]

Hmm, the NAA lists a WW2 service record for William James O'Connor, service number W82300, date of birth 3 Dec 1902, place of birth Perth WA, place of enlistment Albany WA, next of kin Claire O'Connor.

I was looking up one of my relatives on the same database last night and found he had knocked a few years off his age, presumably so he wouldn't be too old to serve. Perhaps William did the same? I can't see an obvious WW1 service record for him at the moment though.

[Macbev]

Looking at the Albany electoral rolls.....there is a Kathleen O'Connor who is working as a teacher at various convents and I can't find a Kathleen Oldroyd anywhere. I wonder if she was widowed/divorced and reverted to her maiden name. Clare May seems to have died in 1967 and is buried in Albany https://www.albanycemeteryboard.com.au/search_results.php


Still no closer to finding where her mother Catherine fits in the family :(

[Macbev]

This lot are doing my head in :( I'm going to have to put my head on the pillow and come back at it again tomorrow. Thanks for the help kate :)

[kiterunner]

How about this marriage on the Queensland BDM site? 1896: John O'Conor / Katherine Elsie Ellen Wright.

[kiterunner]

Then these would be the children's births in WA, right dates and genders but wrong names, and Perth fits with William James O'Connor's military records:
John Broughton Oconor 1897 Perth, parents John Oconor and Kathleen Ellen Wright.
Eileen Mary Ann Oconor 1899 Perth, parents John Oconor and Kathleen Elsie Wright.

[kiterunner]

Now to figure out how Kathleen Elsie Ellen Wright fits in with your family! The nearest I can see for her birth in Australia is Ellen Kathleen Wright 1882 Samp, Victoria, parents James Wright and Ellen Pendlebury. It would fit with her age at death, but makes her pretty young on marriage to John O'Conor. No idea how it would make her sister / stepsister to the people you mentioned at the beginning of the thread, if it is her, though.

[kiterunner]

Ah, here we are in Trove; took them a while to put it in the paper:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/172148832?searchTerm=%22john%20o%27conor%22%20%20% 20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&searchLimits=notWords|||requestHandler|||anyWords| ||exactPhrase=john+o%27conor|||dateTo|||dateFrom|| |sortby=dateAsc

Brisbane Telegraph, 8 Sep 1896.
Marriages.
O'CONOR - WRIGHT - on July 29, at Ann Street, Brisbane, by the Rev Osborne Lilley, John, second son of the Rev John O'Conor, of Sydney, NSW, to Katie (Ida), youngest daughter of the late Thomas Wright, of Heathcote, Victoria.

So that birth in post #17 isn't her.

[kiterunner]

NAA WW1 service record for John Broughton O'Conor, service number 4572, place of birth Perth WA, place of enlistment Adelaide SA, next of kin mother Catherine O'Conor:
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=7993902

Oh. He was killed in action 12 Oct 1917 in Belgium, just a year after enlisting. Not the same person as William James O'Connor then.

Mother's address is given as a PO Box number in Melbourne, but I'm looking through to see whether there is any correspondence with her later in the file.

Edit - yes, page 18, a letter from Catherine Ellen O'Conor. She says she is a widow and he is her only son, and says "I am the person described on my son's birth certificate as Kathleen Ellen Wright". John Broughton O'Conor's date of birth given as 27 Oct 1897, born at Beaufort Street, Perth. He was under age and so keen to enlist that he got his landlady to sign consent for him as he had lost the consent form his mother sent him.

[kiterunner]

Okay, there is a birth reg in 1870 Heathcote, Victoria, Catherine Ellen Wright, parents Thomas Wright and Mary Ann Downes. Still no idea how she fits in with your family! Do you recognise either of the parents' names?

[kiterunner]

On page 24 of John Broughton O'Conor's army records it says that a pension was claimed on behalf of his half-sister, Margaret Rose W C Dodd, 11 Mitchell St, St Kilda, trustee being Eileen Mary Ann O'Conor. There may be a fuller version of the image further on as part of it is obscured on page 24.

[Macbev]

Possible, I guess....but Mrs O'Connor/Barrow was pretty consistent about giving her forename as 'Catherine' -spelled with a 'C'...in the newspapers and the marriage index. It was the daughter who seems to have been called 'Kathleen.'


I think I have found references to John O'Connor in trouble for drunken fights in Perth in 1899, so it is perfectly possibly both children were born in W.A.....the divorce hearing makes it plain that he deserted the family mid 1901, possibly to Sydney.


I am bothered by the idea that Catherine was born out-of-State....so far as I know, none of the families concerned (Ahern-Jane-McCall-Reed) travelled out of WA. I have considered that Catherine may have been given up for adoption and taken to Queensland - but would she then have been listed on the birth indexes of the other States?



I do have an instance of my grandmother's youngest sister, orphaned in 1899 at the age of 2 yrs and adopted. The siblings had no knowledge of what became of that child, but it was thought she may have been taken to the Eastern states or perhaps to England. But in this instance, Catherine's siblings were obviously aware of her place in the family -and Catherine herself seems to have known about her sister in Albany.


The WWII record for William looks promising. He would not have been old enough for WWI, I think. I'll see if I can dig up anything there over the weekend...though if he gave his wife as n.o.k and a false birth date, I doubt if it will get me any further forward. i might get more from a death cert.

[Macbev]

Oops...you have made progress while I was whinging :D The marriage date is spot on -so i guess that is my Catherine.

[kiterunner]

Ancestry Australian Birth Index has Cecilla Margaret Wilfreda Rose Dodd born 30 Oct 1906 Daly, South Australia, parents Walter Ernest Wilfred Dodd and Catherine Ellen O'conor nee Wright.

[kiterunner]

Page 33 of John Broughton O'Conor's military records pertain to the administration of his father's estate - a letter dated 9 Jul 1942, so John O'Conor (Catherine's first husband) had died by that date.

[kiterunner]

Okay, since William James O'Connor's date of birth is 3 Dec 1902, his birth could have been registered in 1903, so how about these two birth registrations for Will and Kath?

1903 Perth: James William Caple, son of James Charles Caple and Catherine Reed.
1904 Albany: Kathleen Caple, daughter of Catherine Caple.

Of course this would mean that Catherine was lying when she said that John Broughton O'Conor was her only son, but then she also claimed to be a widow.

[Edit - in case anyone reads this in the future, it looks as though he was indeed her only son as these are two different Catherines.]

I think the surname Reed came up at the beginning of the thread?

[Macbev]

OR I dived in head first and claimed the wrong Catherine O'Connor. I believe you have proved who the divorcee was...brilliant work,,,,,but just maybe I committed the ultimate genealogy sin and made large assumptions (I wiz gonna buy the certs next week - honest).


What do I know?

1. Mrs C. O'Connor was claimed as a sister on the death of Alexander REED in 1919, along with Martha HUXTABLE nee REED. Martha & Alex were the children of Elizabeth Ahern from her third marriage with Robert REED

2. Mrs Katie BARROW was claimed as step sister on the death of Michael MCCALL in 1949. Michael was the son of Elizabeth AHERN from her second marriage to John MCCALL
3. The WA Reverse Marriage site has a marriage in 1938 between Catherine O'CONNOR and Samuel BARROW (who died in 1940)
4. Albany cemetery has a record for Catherine BARROW, d. 1958, with children Bill and Kath O'CONNOR


Off to look with new eyes :)

[kiterunner]

James Charles Caple married Catherine Reed 1902 Fremantle.

There is a Catherine Reid birth 1880 Fremantle, daughter of Robert Reid and Elizabeth Ahern.

I am utterly confused now!!!

[kiterunner]

Right, so it looks as though the divorcee was not the same person as the mother of Bill and Kath. So we're looking for how Catherine Caple became Catherine O'Connor between 1904 and 1938, right?

Edit - she is Mrs O'Connor by 1919 according to one of the early posts on this thread, and perhaps by 1914 if she is the Catherine O'Connor of Duke Street, Albany, on the electoral rolls.

[Macbev]

Bingo.......Catherine REED was baptized in Fremantle, parents Robt. and Eliz. REED.

[kiterunner]

This is William James Caple (aka O'Connor)'s birth notice on Trove:

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/24849532?searchTerm=%22james%20caple%22%20%20%20%2 0%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20&searchLimits=l-state=Western+Australia