Who Do You Think You Are - Lee Mack 16th Jul

[kiterunner]

At 9 p.m. on BBC1. And repeated at 11:45 p.m. on Wednesday 18th.

[Olde Crone]

I gave up half way through. Did I miss anything?

OC

[Tom Tom]

I gave up half way through. Did I miss anything?

OC

Nope!

I persevered, but wished I hadn't.

[kiterunner]

Episode summary

Lee Mack was born as Lee McKillop in Southport. His grandmother had told him that his great-grandfather was a variety hall comedian called Billy Mack and he wanted to know more about Billy's career. He also wanted to know about his maternal grandfather Joe. His grandparents and parents are no longer alive to give him information. Lee showed his wife Tara some pictures etc of Billy Mack, some mentioning a partner Billy Bray. One of the photos was dated 1919.

Lee's father and grandfather were both named John McKillop. Lee ordered a copy of Billy's birth certificate which showed that his full name was William Alexander McKillop, born on the 6th May 1889 in Derby. His father was Alexander William McKillop, a mechanical engineer. Lee then looked for Billy's WW1 records and found his medal records which showed that he embarked to serve abroad on the 7th Nov 1915, serving with the King's Liverpool Regiment.

Lee went to Liverpool to meet an historian at St George's Hall, which is where Billy enlisted as a volunteer, right at the start of the war. Lee and the historian then went to Liverpool Central Library, where Lee was told that Billy joined the 17th Battalion, the first of the "Pals' Battalions" thought up by Lord Derby. The soldiers in these battalions were mostly middle-class. Billy's service number was 15666, showing that he was the 666th recruit to the 17th Battalion, who trained at Lord Derby's estate at Knowsley. Lee went there and met another historian, who showed him a book by F C Stanley, which mentioned a performance by Billy Bray and his band of Optimists. A report in the Grantham Journal from 1915 also mentioned Billy Bray's boys, including Billy Mack, comedian, entertaining the troops. Billy's regiment was sent to Northern France in 1915. Lee went to Maricourt, which was on the Western Front when Billy served there. Lee met a military historian who told him that Billy fought in the Battle of the Somme, which started in July 1915. They looked at the battlefield and then at a memorial in a French village to the Liverpool and Manchester Pals who liberated the village. Lee was then shown another page of the F C Stanley book, which mentioned the Optimists performing at the front.

Lee then went to Ypres, in Belgium, where Billy served in 1917, and met another historian, who showed him an account of the Optimists' performance of an outdoor concert there for the British and French troops, just after a battle. There was also a postcard with a photo of the Optimists, including Billy Mack.

Lee went to Southport where Billy had performed in a show at a place called the Casino, opposite the Queen's Hotel, but the Casino is no longer standing and the Southport Theatre is there now. Lee went there with a local historian who said that Billy Mack and Billy Bray had performed as a double act, singing a popular song which was new in 1919, "Cabbages, Ca-beans and Carrots". He gave Lee a copy of the sheet music. He also gave Lee a copy of Billy's marriage certificate - he married Gladys Evelyn Burford on the 7th Jul 1919. The birth certificate of their son John Burford McKillop (Lee's grandfather) gave father's occupation as manufacturer of wireless apparatus, and Billy's death certificate from 1959 had him down as a Sales Representative (retired).

Lee's mother also grew up in Southport. Her father Joseph Francis Kingsley lived there until he died, age 93, but was brought up by his grandparents in Ireland after his mother emigrated to Canada. He returned to Southport as an adult and got married there. Lee went to see his aunt Frances for more information. She said that Joseph's mother Delia Farrell got pregnant but never said who the baby's father was, and that after Joe was born in 1910 his birth was not registered, but Delia took him to her parents, Thomas Farrell and Mary Farrell nee Devany, in Ballina, County Mayo. Frances showed Lee a photo of Joe as a baby with Thomas.

Lee went to Ballina and met a social historian, who showed him the 1911 census entry where Thomas was a labourer, age 60, Delia was down as Delia Kingsley, married, age 22, and Joseph was down as Matthew Felix Kingsley, grandson, age 1. The historian said that they had not managed to find Joseph's birth registration, nor a marriage record for Delia. School records listed Joe as Joseph Francis Kingsley. A passenger list from Sep 1911 showed Delia Farrell, unmarried, travelling to Montreal, with her passage paid by a Mrs Francis. Lee was shown a brochure of the Woman's Domestic Guild of Canada led by Mrs E Francis, and told it was a recruitment agency for women to go and work in Canada.

Lee then went to look for 6 King Street, Ballina, the address where the family were living on the 1911 census. The house no longer stands but it was where the pub "The Snug" is now. The house had two rooms, so would have been similar to the tiny house which is next door to The Snug. Lee met a historian and they went into the pub, where they looked at various court records showing that Thomas Farrell had been fined in 1892, 1905, 1913, and 1915 for selling alcohol without a licence. An insurance claim from 29 Sep 1922 said that the Farrells' door had been damaged by rifle fire on the previous night,during the Irish Civil War.

[kiterunner]

The 1939 Register gives Joe's dob as 26 Mar 1910:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/61596/tna_r39_4645_4645d_002/27530900?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fqh%3d%252FwAVSc0Y8TXRADhaxgYadQ%25 3D%253D%26db%3d1939UKRegister%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_db% 26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gs fn%3djoseph%2520f%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dkingsley%2 6gsln_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

The 1911 Irish census only gives his birthplace as "England", so we don't know for sure that he was born in Southport. I know it's possible that his birth really wasn't registered, but surely it could just be that nobody has managed to find the registration yet.

There is a birth registration for a Thomas Kingsley Apr-Jun 1910 Stockport district, with the online GRO site showing it as illegitimate and Cheshire BMD showing MMN as Kingsley (should be Farrell if it was Delia, but it could be her if she was calling herself Kingsley.) I can't find that Thomas Kingsley on the 1911 census at the moment or a death for him, but of course there are many possible reasons for that!

[kiterunner]

Here is Delia's burial record (in French) on ancestry:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1091/d13p_1111d1376/12619105?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdbid%3d1091%26gsfn%3ddel%253fa%26g sln%3dfarrel%253f%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln_x%3d1%26cp%3 d3%26qh%3d%252bmZALIiPL3kIDhzIk8Wv3A%253d%253d%26n ew%3d1%26rank%3d1%26redir%3dfalse&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

4 Feb 1936 in Montreal. She is down as Delia O'Farrell, but it gives her parents' names as Thomas O'Farrell and Devaney, so it does look to be her. It says she was the wife of William Virtue, and that she died on the 2nd Feb 1936 age 47.

[kiterunner]

There is lots about Delia on this public tree on ancestry:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/22002771/person/19318371340/facts

Not got time to type it all up and check it just now, but it says her real name was Bridget and that she married a Richard Passau in Canada and then William Virtue and that "Sonny" (Joe) went out to Canada in 1930 and returned to England in 1935.

[Guinevere]

I can't stand Lee Mack so found it difficult to get involved. Found it quite mundane, really.

[ElizabethHerts]

I fell asleep half-way through, which is something I rarely do!

[Jill]

I went the full distance and found it interesting.

[kiterunner]

Seems strange they didn't make contact with anyone in Canada and find out about Delia's life there. If the info on that ancestry tree is right, what they said about Joe returning to Southport "at the end of his childhood" and then living there for the rest of his life is wrong.

[Anstey Nomad]

I thoroughly enjoyed this, but then i would be happy to look into Lee Mack's antecedents anytime :D

[Merry]

I note that on the passenger lists for Joseph going back and forth to Canada in the 1930s he gives his Southport address as 38 Devonshire Road. On the 1939 register his mother's brother, Patrick Farrell (listed as Paddy b 4 Apr 1900) is living at that address. Probably of no consequence really, but thought I'd mention it! Didn't watch the programme.

[kiterunner]

The public tree on ancestry links to this for the baptism of Joe's father, and the name does fit so well with the two versions of Joe's name:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1091/d13p_3150738/12114553?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/9332384/person/-815629182/facts/citation/-229788379/edit/record

Notre Dame du St Rosaire, Sawyerville, Quebec, Canada
in margin: Kingsley - Joseph Felix Francis
Note: He was married in this parish to Miss Emilia Martin on the 6th June 1910.
The twenty-ninth day of May, nineteen hundred and ten, we, the undersigned, parish priest, in virtue of a power granted to us by Monsignor H. O. Chabifoud, general vicar of the diocese of Sherbrooke, have baptized unconditionally Joseph Felix Francis Kingsley, born on the thirteen of February eighteen hundred and eighty three of the lawful marriage of Sylvanus Kingsley, and Jane Coake, of this parish. The godfather was Felix Martin and the godmother his wife, Mary McCafferty, who have signed with me and J F Francis Kingsley. This act has been read to the parties.


Then the next entry is the marriage of Francis Kingsley and Emelia Martin.

[kiterunner]

And this is Delia and her husband Richard Passau on the 1921 Canadian census (on a free site):
http://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1921&op=img&id=e003103818

[kiterunner]

I note that on the passenger lists for Joseph going back and forth to Canada in the 1930s he gives his Southport address as 38 Devonshire Road. On the 1939 register his mother's brother, Patrick Farrell (listed as Paddy b 4 Apr 1900) is living at that address. Probably of no consequence really, but thought I'd mention it! Didn't watch the programme.

Thanks for mentioning those, Merry - they do confirm that his place of birth was supposedly Southport.