View Full Version : French ancestors new online services
Hi , I was wandering if anyone as used the new French online services to trace the ancestors . I have but it's very complicated . Although the pages translate if needed . I have been in search of my husbands grandfathers birth in Paris but have not been able to trace it as yet . If anyone has any tips on the best way to use it I would be interested to hear Thanks Qwackers
kiterunner
17-06-18, 15:01
Have you read my reply on your other thread about this, Qwackers? It's hard to help when we don't know which particular French online services you are talking about. If you're looking at the birth records on the Paris Archives website (link below) then you will have to try each arrondissement in turn unless you already know which arrondissement you want. Basically, what you have to do is look in the index first and then when you've found the record in the index, you go to the actual image.
http://archives.paris.fr/s/7/tables-decennales/?
If your husband's grandfather is deceased then you could post up the info that you have and I'll have a try on that website, or if he's still alive, PM me the info.
Hi , I understand that point , the problem being that I do nor know the naissence of his grandfather or the arondissement as Paris was a big area to search . it would be a mere guess. As he is in the British protectorate of Uganda marrying Leona guillon in 1912 . I spend two months a year in France but have never had the time to search the archives Nationale in person . The reason I started a thread is someone said that this should be a thread in its own right . I can find a few persons with his name in Paris as it is not a common French name for the area , it's very common in the department of Aveyron . But it would be a total guess as which is the right person as I have know idea of his age it would be guess work . All I do know is that Francois marcellin Alcouffe was born in Paris date not known we believe he had a sister who we believe was born there , name similar to obertte and she was a star of stage in Paris .thats all I go on . We know that Francois s father was Gerome Alcouffe as one marriage paper in Uganda . If you can help I would be most grateful . My husbands mother and
Farther are no longer alive and a aunt in Denmark has now passed away so there isn't anyone to ask any more . Thanks
We know that Francois s father was Gerome Alcouffe as one marriage paper in Uganda
The typed image of the marriage entry on FMP says the father's name is Francois Gerome Alcouffe (merchant) rather than just Gerome.
kiterunner
17-06-18, 16:10
Francois Marcellin Alcouffe was "full age" when he married in 1912, so he was born in or before 1891 (assuming he wasn't lying about his age.)
Okay, I've gone through the naissances (births) for all 20 Paris arrondissements for the period 1883-1892 and only found three Alcouffes: Louise Pauline Eugenie 23 Jul 1892 11th arrondissement, daughter of Jean and Marie; Jeanne Marie 7 Aug 1884 13th arrondissement, daughter of Jean Louis and Marie Rose; Laurent Firmin(?) 18 Sep 1885 13th arrondissement, same parents as for Jeanne Marie.
(The way I did it was to search the naissances tables decennales 1883-1892 for Alcouffe for each arrondissement in turn. When I found an Alcouffe entry, I noted down the date of birth and the arrondissement, then searched the tables alphabetiques for that year and arrondissement to get the registration number, then searched the actes d'etats civils for that number.)
So maybe he was born before 1883, or somewhere near Paris rather than in Paris itself?
Yes that could be the case , but we only had my husbands fathers word that he was born in Paris we have no concrete evidence . I will try and search some of the other departments . There was a few alcouffes who emigrated to California . I found them on the passenger lists . From Le Havre but no crossings for Francois . I will keep trying . See what I can come up with . I have always had a feeling that the alcouffes who emigrated may hold the key to the answers it's just a gut feeling . Maybe it's worth a punt ,
I also though he would have been enlisted into the French army during the Second World War although he was living in Africa at that time so maybe he has a service record .
Previous thread about these people:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=20757&highlight=alcouffe
kiterunner
17-06-18, 18:10
I've also checked through the births for 1873-1882 for all arrondissements of Paris with no luck.
kiterunner
17-06-18, 18:32
And I've also checked the births for 1893-1902 for all arrondissements of Paris, just in case he was underage when he got married, but again, no sign of him.
Thank you for trying , I knew it wouldn't be easy finding him . Maybe I should concentrate on finding the father Francois Gerome Alcouffe . And see If can find where he was born . He may have not been born in Paris as the name is prevelent in Aveyron compared to other areas of France . I also searching for a Franck Alcouffe who was Francois alcouffes son born in Uganda to Leona gullion. We believe he contacted my mother in law a few years ago asking to speak to his brother Franz who had passed away by then . He may be dead now but he may have had children . As we had no information of where he was. .
Hi , I have checked the name Alcouffe , on lots of sites and have found that the department with most people of that surname is Aveyron in south west France .It may be worth a punt to see if I can find Gerome , I have found some Gerome 's in Aveyron but the dates are early 1800 s if we can find some around the 1870s 80s it could help . Also I was wondering if Francois was captured by the Germans . As I saw a marcel Alcouffe on names of prisoner of war in Stalag . I'm afraid I did not keep the photo of it . But someone mentioned that it would not have been safe in tanganika for a French national . So if anyone's know anything about Stalag and war records . It may be worth a look . It may be another way of tracing him .
Also I believe that Franke Alcouffe was alive about 7years ago as a gentleman rang my mother in law and asked for Franz , and told her he was Franzs brother . But Frank had passed away earlier that year and although the gentleman did not say his name I believe it was Franke Alcouffe . . He could still be alive or he could have had children his self .
Hi , I thought I would have a look at the archives of Aveyron ,now I don't know if this is the Francois marcellin Alcouffe that we are looking for ,but I found a military record for the person with same name , stationed with a battalion in Montpellier . . The facts are we do not know how old Francois was when he got married in Uganda . So I suppose this could be him . But I will have to try and explore the rest of the archives to see if I can establish anything .but I suppose it's a start .
Ancestry has these databases, but I don't have a worldwide sub:
Paris, France & Vicinity Marriage Banns, 1860-1902
Paris & Vicinity, France Electoral Rolls, 1891
I don't know if there are any more potentially relevant databases as these two don't show up in the card catalogue for me!
I was just looking on the departmental archives of Aveyron which are online . I have also found a military roll of a person with the same name born 1875 in Villefranche de Rouergue in Aveyron , recruitment as a locksmith . But it's states hime at the time of recruitment America . .this could be him as we do not know the age of the marriage of Francois in Uganda .
We now think ,that it may not be him ,as he would have been quite old when my husbands father was born over fifty , I'm not saying it's impossible , but he would have been an older father . So will have to maybe think again .
But it's still a possibility as I have found a birth on the Aveyron site for the same name in 1878 .
kiterunner
12-03-19, 10:15
But it's still a possibility as I have found a birth on the Aveyron site for the same name in 1878 .
Which name, please? And what is the father's name on this birth?
Francois marcellin Alcouffe
kiterunner
12-03-19, 13:03
Which commune was that 1878 birth in? And what was the father's name?
The commune was Villefranche de rouergue . Commune of Aveyron It didn't give fathers name .
kiterunner
12-03-19, 13:44
That's funny, I just looked at Villefranche de Rouergue but I only found Marcellin Francois Alcouffe born May 1875, father's name Francois Alcouffe, a "cultivateur" i.e. farmer. I didn't see an 1878 birth for a Francois Marcellin or Marcellin Francois there. Have you got the full date of birth for the 1878 one, and I'll have a look at it?
Hi looked at the actual copy showing the birth of Francois ,and the year is in one of those numbers which could be a lot of things but looked like a eight . I thought exactly the same .if you want I can send you a screen shot to your email as I don't know how to do it on this site . You can see what you think .
It doesn't look like 75 , but that's my take on it .
kiterunner
12-03-19, 14:26
So did you just look at the index? And was this the year? The index shows the dates in sequence, so it comes between 1874 and 1876.
Then when you have the date from the Tables decennales, you can go to the Actes d'etat civil and look at the full record which is where it has father's name etc.
kiterunner
12-03-19, 14:46
Not sure whether this will work but I will try to post a link to the actual birth record.If not, it is image no 18 of 34 for 22/03/1875 - 12/07/1875:
http://archives.aveyron.fr/ark:/11971/vta52df49e00f3ce/daogrp/0/layout:table/idsearch:RECH_a51023e1316a45cda8709c1145826387#id: 818444523?gallery=true&brightness=100.00&contrast=100.00¢er=1031.872512,-1808.0071679999999&zoom=6
It has an annotation to say he died 24 (or 26?) Jul 1957 at Marseille.
Yes I got the link , and yes it does say he died in Marseille . So if that is the right person he eventually went home to France .
kiterunner
12-03-19, 16:25
I shouldn't think it is the right person, because his father isn't Francois Gerome Alcouffe, merchant, but Francois Alcouffe, farmer.
Yes you could be right. i have also seen a record with a Gerome Alcouffe in Aveyron but I'm afraid I can't remember what site it was . It was definetly a French site and not a English one .
Hi , I do believe that the military records in this previous post are of the right person. I have translated some of the French and Francois was stationed in east Africa and Kampala Uganda around the time we are looking for for his marriage etc .i am very busy today having to travel all day . But hopefully will look again tomorrow
I think the Villefranche birth of Francois is the correct one as stated on military papers . It places him in Kampala Uganda . And he was there still in 1916 . so I think he is my husbands Grandfather . He travelled around that area ,Mombasa etc. And that would fit in with a lot we know with regards to my husbands father .
I also believe that the marcellin Francois born in Villefranche is him , there's nothing to say his father didn't become a merchant later in life as a farmer he could start to trade his goods some people don't use their first names . So this could be the case .
kiterunner
13-03-19, 08:28
Would you be able to post a link to the military record, please?
kiterunner
13-03-19, 10:10
Something I just found by Googling:
https://www.klarchdiocese.org.ug/index.php/the-cathedral
St Mary's and Sacred Heart Cathedral, Rubaga, Kampala: As for the cathedral's bells, they were offered by Mr. FM Alcouffe from Aveyron, France, and bought from Annecy Vieux, France in 1925.
I had a look on the military record (http://archives.aveyron.fr/ark:/11971/vta9532683738edcfa7/daoloc/0#id:969406426?gallery=true¢er=990,-1463.5 ) and it is definitely the same person as the one born in 1875, as the names of both parents match.
According to the military record (who seemed quite miffed that he wasn't around to go in the army) he was in Mozambique in 1904, in Nairobi and Mombasa (written as Nairoldi) in British East Africa (Kenya) in 1907 and in Kampala, Uganda in 1911.
Francois was the son of Francois Alcouffe and Victoire Justine Boutonnet who married in Villefranche on 16 Nov 1868. Francois Sr, was the son of Jerome Alcouffe and Jeanne Marty, so maybe Francois added his father's name at some point. At least the name was in the family!
Thank you so much crawfie for finding that . My husband Is over the moon . Francois we believe was the first person to have a factory that did remould tyres in east Africa . But we have never been able to find out much about that . But the donation of bells is fantastic news .
We are going to Aveyron in June sometimes , so we hope to have a look around Villefranche . It will be a interesting visit .
Crawfie , did Jerome have anymore children ? it would be interesting to see if there was any who were in Aveyron . Thanks
Kiterunner and crawfie , your are marvellous ??????
The question marks was emojis .
I had a quick look on the 10-year indexes for birth - for the Alcouffe name between 1863-1872 there are 7 entries, 1873-1882 17 entries and 1883-1892 12 entries, so probably a few of them are for the same parents. As Victoire was 40 when Francois was born I don't think she would have had many more afterward.
Unfortunately I don't have the time to look any further tonight, as we are off at 5 in the morning tomorrow and I still need to pack! Will be back in 3 days, so can have a look then!
No problem thanks for all your help have a good weekend
Hi , crawfie I think Francois was in America at the time of his recruitment . I remember I'd seen it somewhere . It said home at time of recruitment amerique . Thanks
At the bottom of military paper it does say firstly complete amnesty from exercise . Then next it says scatters abroad . I know Francois was married in Kampala in 1912 .. It also says he was given amnesty by law 1904 i don't know if the French were conscripted , if they were I think he was residing in America . And maybe they thought that as trying to evade conscription ,it's difficult to translate all the French because of the italic writing . He could have had relatives in America as I noticed on past searching ,a few alcouffes had left and where living in America . It's not for definite , but he could have gone to visit them and had to be conscripted from there .
Have now managed to have a look through the registers and have some more info. First of all, apologies as I made a mistake in Francois mothers name, it was Victoire Julienne Boutonnet. She was born on 21 Jun 1835 in Les Cazelles,(La Fouillade district, Aveyron Departement) parents Joseph Boutonnet and Marie Amans. She died on 2 Jul 1903 in Villefranche. Interesting note, on both her marriage and her death record her occupation is stated to be Marchande - merchant.
Francois father was also Francois, born 21 Dec 1843 in Puechemignon (also La Fouillade) parents Jerome Alcouffe and Jeanne Marty. I haven't yet found a death for him. He was still alive when Victoire died.
As far as I can see, they had 5 other children:
Marie Julie, born 17/4/1871, married Edmond Frains Cabet 1/6/1898 in Villefranche.
Julien Francois born 28/2/1873
Irma Julienne born 28/4/1874
Louis Germain born 2/2/1877
Adrien Louis born 11/12/1879.
The French records are very informative, and practically identical in format to Dutch records (which I have used a lot) as both come from formats put in place in the Napoleonic era. Do you want me to see if I can find out anything more on parents, and/or siblings?
Hi , crawfie thanks So much for doing that , I have been stuck for so long looking for Francois Marcel. Alcouffe We do know that Francois had a sister , where they where born , etc fathers name , so you have given us a great gift of knowing where they came from . Any kind of info you can find would be great any census of them if there are any as we will be visiting the area in June and would like to see if we can find graves etc At some stage . Francois either in the military or not ended up in east Africa . That's where my husbands grandmother met him , we think he was already married to a Leona guillon in Kampala in 1912 . Anything you can uncover would be fantastic .thanks so much
Hi crawfie , if Julien Alcouffe is Francois brother , I've seen a emigration of a julien Alcouffe to America , and he settled in California where the family had a vineyard . could this be his brother ? Thanks
Any past history of the family would be great did they all remain in Aveyron , except for Francois . Yes I find that victoires occupation merchant interesting as it say Francois father s occupation on marriage certificate in Kampala is a merchant . Wonder what they sold ? Etc
Hi crawfie, I found these births on the Aveyron departmentale archives . There were three for Alcouffe as follows Jean Louis Joseph 1893 Louis gaston 1894 Gabriel Raymond 1896.iIs there any way we can find out if these are the children of Francois siblings on the male side ? Thanks
I have looked up these births, they all had different fathers, none of whom were brothers to Francois. I haven't been able to find out much info on the brothers, no marriages but I did find that Louis Germain died at the age of 6 months on 22/8/1877. Unfortunately the records only go up to 1902, so if they married or died after that date the record is not yet available. There may be more info in Aveyron itself, so if you are going there have fun investigating the place.
(It looks like details of marriages and deaths are written in the margin of the birth record if these take place outside of Aveyron. As there are none on Francois siblings records, they may have stayed in the village, or possibly moved abroad and details were not sent back.)
i Think the other brothers may have been killed in the war .
Hi ,To all ,hope your all keeping safe . I have found a Francois and renee leona alcouffe . Deaths in Marseille I don't know the exact dates . but i believe they were cremated . at st Jerome Marseille . Have you any ideas how i find out more . As i believe now that the family alcouffe moved back to france to marseille from Africa . I also saw a not on Geanenet with regards to renee irene who was at a clinic in Marseille . with an address in Marseille . If you have any ideas of how i can check the deaths at st jerome ,and also if i can find out if there are any family still remaining in Marseille ? thanks
hi ,I now have found the cimitaire info on the marseille website . But it says creamatuon 2012 of leona guillion alcouffe . and there is a francois and a biscotti alcouffe
kiterunner
23-09-20, 09:42
See posts #16 onwards on your other thread:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=28881&page=2
thanks Kiterunner . Was wondering if there was anyway i could find out if there was still any family of the alcouffes in Marseille . ? Where would you suggest i try to look ? thanks
kiterunner
24-09-20, 09:48
I don't know, sorry.
vBulletin® v3.8.7 PL3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.