Archdeaconry Of Sudbury Probate Records

[ElizabethHerts]

Can anyone find the online catalogue to search on the Suffolk Record Office's website? I have tried so many times.

You are supposed to be able to search the wills index, but I can't find it. I keep thinking it should be very simple...

[Sue from Southend]

I think this may be it, Elizabeth but you have to register and log in to view the index.

http://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/collections/getrecord/GB173_IC_500

I found it by doing search for Wills Index.

[kiterunner]

Hmm, I see their new record office is going to be named "The Hold" and that they thank "East Sussex Archives at The Keep for allowing us to use their help notes" on how to use the website. The Keep's website has almost reduced me to tears in the past trying to navigate it! So it's maybe not surprising that the Suffolk website keeps saying to look at some particular page such as "the Planning your visit" section or "the online catalogue" but without a link to click. "Using the website" says to see "Planning your visit" for info about the catalogue but "Planning your visit" says to see "Using the website" for that info. And as for why one of the buttons on the bar at the top is "Badminton in Suffolk"...?!

This is the link to their search page which seems to search the catalogue:
https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/collections/search?s=&qa[keyword_reference_type]=0&qa[partner]=&qa[identifier]=&qa[date_from]=&qa[date_to]=&qa[title]=&qa[person]=&qa[place]=&qa[subject]=&qa[format]=&cbpt=0&cbav=2&cbadvsearchquery=#
Clicking on "More" brings up an advanced search and you would think that typing IC/500 into the "Search for or within references" box would restrict it to the Archdeaconry of Sudbury probate records (as it says that is their reference on their pre-1858 wills page) but it doesn't seem to. Nor does searching for name AND will as they suggest seem to work.

This is the link to the pre-1858 wills info page though it's not much help:
https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/probate-records/pre-1858-wills/

It says that they are digitising the Sudbury wills and making them available to download and that some are already done, but I haven't managed to find them on the website yet.

[Oakum Picker]

For whom are you looking Liza?

[ElizabethHerts]

Hmm, I see their new record office is going to be named "The Hold" and that they thank "East Sussex Archives at The Keep for allowing us to use their help notes" on how to use the website. The Keep's website has almost reduced me to tears in the past trying to navigate it! So it's maybe not surprising that the Suffolk website keeps saying to look at some particular page such as "the Planning your visit" section or "the online catalogue" but without a link to click. "Using the website" says to see "Planning your visit" for info about the catalogue but "Planning your visit" says to see "Using the website" for that info. And as for why one of the buttons on the bar at the top is "Badminton in Suffolk"...?!

This is the link to their search page which seems to search the catalogue:
https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/collections/search?s=&qa[keyword_reference_type]=0&qa[partner]=&qa[identifier]=&qa[date_from]=&qa[date_to]=&qa[title]=&qa[person]=&qa[place]=&qa[subject]=&qa[format]=&cbpt=0&cbav=2&cbadvsearchquery=#
Clicking on "More" brings up an advanced search and you would think that typing IC/500 into the "Search for or within references" box would restrict it to the Archdeaconry of Sudbury probate records (as it says that is their reference on their pre-1858 wills page) but it doesn't seem to. Nor does searching for name AND will as they suggest seem to work.

This is the link to the pre-1858 wills info page though it's not much help:
https://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/probate-records/pre-1858-wills/

It says that they are digitising the Sudbury wills and making them available to download and that some are already done, but I haven't managed to find them on the website yet.

I'm glad you had the same experience as me, Kate. I kept reading that some of the probate records are online, but I couldn't find any.

Glen, I think my Pond ancestors came from the Mildenhall area and I was looking to see if there were any wills for the name, or for the surname variations of Cullifer.

I'm used to navigating websites, but this must be the worst one I have encountered. It is terrible.

[ElizabethHerts]

I think this may be it, Elizabeth but you have to register and log in to view the index.

http://www.suffolkarchives.co.uk/collections/getrecord/GB173_IC_500

I found it by doing search for Wills Index.

Sue, I found that but it isn't actually the search page, it seems to be just information.

[ElizabethHerts]

I wish there was a browsable list of wills. That is much better for research as I often find other names which I look at which can link to who I'm looking for.

[kiterunner]

They (or some of them) seem to have been searchable at one time on FMP but I couldn't get these to come up in their A-Z of databases, only got to them via Google:

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/england-and-wales-published-wills-and-probate-indexes-1300-1858-volumes-available/suffolk/probate-records-of-the-court-of-the-archdeacon-of-sudbury-1354-1700-vols-i-and-i

https://www.findmypast.co.uk/articles/england-and-wales-published-wills-and-probate-indexes-1300-1858-volumes-available/suffolk/probate-records-of-the-court-of-the-archdeacon-of-sudbury-1800-1858

The searches on those pages don't work any more, as they don't search those specific databases. I wonder whether the databases are still on the site or not though?

[ElizabethHerts]

It's very frustrating! We might make a trip to Bury St Edmunds in a few weeks to visit the RO. I can't get anywhere online.

[kiterunner]

Maybe contact Suffolk Archives after the weekend and ask them? If you can find their contact details!

I did find this on Suffolk County Council's page about the Suffolk Archives website:
"Some of the areas of the website are still being tested but should be launched in full soon."

[ElizabethHerts]

Well, let's hope they improve the website soon. Firstly I need the image of a baptism and a marriage, after which I need to see if I can get any further.

[Oakum Picker]

What period are you looking at Liza? I put in the name, probate & some dates. Sometimes the details are just ignored & you get hundreds of irrelevant hits.

Suffolk have no intention of putting the PRs online yet. They are digitising wills, licence bonds etc. so they can charge.

You used to be able to order things like wills to look at the originals then order photocopies of the pages for 60/75p depending on size. Now even if you visit the RO you still have to pay £6 for a will even if it's only one page. Even the wills that have not yet been digitised still cost £6. Photocopies of anything now cost £1.50 irrespective of size & pages from PRs are £1 a sheet.

Whilst I can understand the need to preserve original documents this is a massive increase in costs. Also with the barest minimum of detail online I don't see how people will identify the wills they need. You can read them at the RO if you have an account but I'm very disappointed that there is no financial gain from making the effort to visit.

Neighbour Norfolk have them on microfilm charging per sheet.

[ElizabethHerts]

Glen, I have never done research for Suffolk before. Suffolk RO might be shooting themselves in the foot with these high charges. I find the cost of my Scottish research too great, so I don't concentrate on it.

I have Henry Pond baptised at Mildenhall on 1st May 1774. There is a marriage between Henry Pond and Elizabeth Cullifer on 14th May 1773 at Mildenhall. I corresponded with the RO to establish the marriage.

This is my thread about them:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=9225&highlight=Henry+Pond

[NickiP]

I think the general consensus has been that Suffolk RO are shooting themselves in the foot with the extortionate charges for the Wills ... I had heard they'd put up the charges if you visited the RO itself but hadn't realised that meant they were charging the same price as for mail order/online.

Elizabeth, there is a post 1600 Wills index here - http://www.dswebhosting.info/Suffolk/SRODServe/index.html. It is listed as an interim website for the new one but so far is still working and much easier to search on. If you go to Advanced Search and enter IC500 in the Ref box and the surname in the title box, it will search for any Archdeaconry of Sudbury Wills (which would cover Mildenhall). To search Archdeaconry of Suffolk (which covers the east of the county) via Advanced Search the ref is IC/AA1 and then the surname in title.

For pre1600 index, the PDF copies of the pre1700 publications on FMP are available to search - https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-Records/england-and-wales-published-wills-and-probate-indexes-1300-1858 and enter Sudbury or Suffolk in the publication title which should allow you to select the correct index.

Don't forget that there are also Norwich Consistory Court Wills, an index of which is accessible via the NRO catalogue website, which were the next court up between the Archdeaconry of Sudbury or Suffolk and the Prerogative Court of Canterbury.

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks, Nicki. It's amazing how much variation there is between ROs as regards charges for wills etc. I have ordered many over the years direct from the RO and sometimes the charges have been really reasonable.

If you go to Suffolk's ROs can you view the wills before deciding whether to print them? Some of my research is purely speculative and I often read wills before deciding whether to print them or not.

[NickiP]

I've not been to Bury St Edmunds RO for some years but you could previously view the Archdeaconry of Sudbury Wills (for Archdeaconry of Suffolk you have to go to Ipswich) on either microfilm for registered copies or the original copies. Obviously that may have changed if they have digitised the originals but needs checking.

If you happen to have an LDS Family History Centre any where near you that you can visit, its worth looking in their catalogue (keyword search for Archdeaconry of Sudbury) to see if they've got copies and have digitised them. Its amazing what is now accessible at the FHCs via the web which were previously only viewable by ordering in the microfilms to the centres.

[Oakum Picker]

I go to Suffolk twice a year now & I've never seen wills on microfilm. I've always looked at the originals & had photocopies done, the cost dependent on number of sheets required but usually £2-3 max.

Now those that have been digitised can be read on the RO computers when you sign in to your a/c but all copies are £6.

When I was there in March I looked at a 1 sheet original but was still asked to pay £6. I told them what to do with it - politely!!

They used to be very consumer friendly. When Lowestoft library which houses an RO was refurbed the RO was moved to Oulton Broad library which was tiny & had no facilities for photocopying on the day. However I would give them a list when I left & the 60p copies would be with me in a few days AND no P & P.

A few years later the Ipswich RO was unable to deal with my order on the day & wanted to charge me a £5 handling fee & P & P.

It has all got so much worse.

[NickiP]

I suppose it may depend on which Suffolk RO but when we spent quite a lot of time at Bury St Edmunds in the early 2000s we did tend to print off the registered copies from microfilm, although a few photocopies of originals were also obtained, particularly from post 1700.

If they are asking for £6 to even view the originals then they really have lost the plot and are shooting themselves in the foot. In September 2014 my parents did visit both Ipswich and Bury and obtained a photo permit which allowed them to photograph quite a few original Wills. I'm glad they did then as there is no way we'd pay £6 per Will. Even Wiltshire RO prior to the completion of the Wills digitisation project and upload to Ancestry didn't charge you £5 per Will for a digital copy that they'd already got on the local PCs if you visited the Archives personally.

Over the years Suffolk RO has got quite a lot of money from us for copy Wills and duplicate microfiche of Parish Registers. Admittedly we've not had much in recent years, were waiting for them to digitise their PRs (which still looks unlikely for the foreseeable future as apparently they don't think any of the commercial companies pay sufficient royalties compared to what they want) but with this sort of attitude they're very unlikely to get much more from us.

I'm afraid I shall continue visiting my local FHC which, although most of the digital microfilms are registered copies, it doesn't matter that much as the information is still the same, just don't get the original signatures.

[ElizabethHerts]

Nicki, we ought to send the Suffolk ROs a copy of the opinions about their fees from this thread.

[NickiP]

I think a number of people have already made them aware of it but they don't seem to give a toss about it. Somebody had enquired whether they were considering offering a subscription service like SEAX but they said they'd discounted it. Probably 'cos they don't think they'd make as much money as they would like.

At least they're not charging £10 per digitised Will like Hertfordshire RO...

I'm just glad that the LDS had been allowed to microfilm them in the past (mainly registered copies but they do have some originals) and that they've digitised them so at least you can access them at an FHC and on the plus side no microfilm ordering charge now. I think a number of the microfilms at Bury RO of Wills may be the copies the LDS made. I know Bury don't have microfilm copies of the Archdeaconry of Suffolk Wills and Admons, only for the Archdeaconry of Sudbury. I just hope the Suffolk archivist doesn't try and change the terms of the agreement with the LDS to stop access .... I would hope they wouldn't or couldn't do that as the agreements were obviously signed many years ago. Digitised access at the FHCs isn't really any different to ordering in the microfilms as some FHCs do have microfilm printing facilities, although the one I use hasn't had in the 10 years I've been visiting it.

We just have to live in hope that whatever they are going to do with digitising their parish registers is undertaken in the not too distant future. Sadly the LDS weren't allowed to microfilm many of the Suffolk PRs, although they have the BTs.

[ElizabethHerts]

At least they're not charging £10 per digitised Will like Hertfordshire RO...



I have had countless wills from Hertfordshire, but as I visit the RO they have cost me very little. OH had multiple ancestors in Hertfordshire, to our surprise, and the resources have been wonderful.

[NickiP]

Herts RO unfortunately is a four hour drive for me from Birmingham so have never been, its not possible to get to Hertford by train other than into London and back out again. I've purchased a couple of Wills from them but begrudge the price to be honest. I have a couple of lines that straddle the Buckinghamshire/Bedfordshire/Hertfordshire border area which are a pain to research. I still live in hope that Buckinghamshire and Bedfordshire ROs will get their PRs digitised as that would make things easier to research.

[ElizabethHerts]

Nicki, when I next visit Hertford I could print some wills for you.

Which surnames are you interested in? Also, which parishes were your ancestors from?

[Oakum Picker]

And if you want any PR copies from Bucks, I could do those. A few months ago the charge was still just 50p a sheet. The wills I think cost the same as ordering online.

I've been going to Suffolk for nearly 20 years and I've ordered hundreds of wills & other documents from the archives but never once did they suggest I look at a registered copy on microfilm. I even suggested they did this the last time I was there but was told there was no need as they were all being digitised.

They don't charge to look at them whilst you are there & you can take notes but a copy is still the same price as ordering online. They have been paranoid for some time about phones being used to take screen shots. Although they did issue camera licences & probably still do they won't produce the original documents if they have been digitised.

I was fuming about this back in March & this thread has started me off again especially as I never knew about the registered copies on film. So much so that I've just rung Ipswich who confirmed they do have some on film but there are gaps. Copies are £1 a sheet so could be just as expensive as a download. They also confirmed that all copies of original wills are £6 irrespective of the manner in which they are delivered.

It is still possible to take photos of wills that have not been digitised with a £10 camera licence so that is what I shall have to concentrate on in September as I know of 3 I want & am sure I can find more!!

[NickiP]

Very many thanks Elizabeth and Glen for your offer re Hertfordshire and Buckinghamshire. To be honest at the moment I'm OK since FMP uploaded more of the Herts PRs and from what I've been able to download via Familysearch. I'm working my way through my trees to see what I can obtain copies of in addition to new research.

Its interesting that Buckinghamshire are still only charging 50p per copy since I'm sure it was about that in the early 2000s when we last spent some time there. I'm surprised its not gone up in price.

Glen its interesting you've only ever had the original Wills rather than the registered copies that are microfilmed. We started going to Bury RO in 2001 and although not been for a number of years, the vast majority of the copies we got when were were there were microfilm printouts. We know someone who used to work at Bury RO and had retired but was doing some paid research for others so she did get us quite a lot of original Will photocopies at a reasonable price (cost of copies plus some research time and postage) which worked out much cheaper than the official RO fees. Interestingly she always got the original copies rather than the registered, albeit some were rather moth eaten at times. A few we had to get a second registered copy 'cos of issues with them but its interesting other people preferences on which type to get. I accept the originals are nice, especially if you get one where the person could sign their name, but over the years we've got copies of both types.