View Full Version : Burial question
I've found some burial registers for Staffordshire on ancestry and am going through finding dates and locations for some of my families. The registers also have grave and section numbers.
My question is how likely is it to have a mass grave, say 6 to 8 bodies buried over 20 years say, and the 6-8 people are not related?
The 2 babies in my other thread are buried with other people and I don't recognise the surnames, although I may not have those branches in my tree yet or they are in-laws I haven't researched.
Question 2 - how can a mass grave contain people that are buried in consecrated and non consecrated ground? Or can only a certain level of ground be consecrated?
I have a husband and wife buried in the same plot. Her register entry says she is in unconsecrated ground, but his says consecrated. He was buried first.
3. What exactly is meant by an imbecile?
My question is how likely is it to have a mass grave, say 6 to 8 bodies buried over 20 years say, and the 6-8 people are not related?
I'd say very likely indeed!
There are always going to be exceptions, but in general, what you describe is an unpurchased or common grave.
An unpurchased grave is used for any burial where the family of the individual do not pay for the grave to be purchased and so do not have any control over who is buried there. In my experience this was the case for a large proportion of the population. In most cases there would be no gravestone placed on a common grave.
The purchaser of a purchased grave buys the right to burial, not the actual grave space, for a given length of time.
re your second question, I was going to reply, but think my answer is a bit of a guess, so I'll move on to imbecile.....
Of course, what an individual means by a word may not always be the same as the excepted meaning, but I think in general in Victorian times an imbecile was someone with a low IQ, so someone with moderate to severe learning difficulties, either from birth or following illness or accident etc.
This Wikipedia entry describes the various sub-classes of imbecile:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbecile
kiterunner
17-06-18, 09:01
Question 2 - how can a mass grave contain people that are buried in consecrated and non consecrated ground? Or can only a certain level of ground be consecrated?
I have a husband and wife buried in the same plot. Her register entry says she is in unconsecrated ground, but his says consecrated. He was buried first.
My answer is a guess too - could the ground have been deconsecrated between the two burials? Or perhaps it's a mistake in the records?
could the ground have been deconsecrated between the two burials?
That's what I wondered, but wouldn't deconsecration only happen if a burial ground was having a complete change of use? (around here because the council want to build more housing and sell off part of a cemetery).
A mistake seems more likely!
Thanks for the answers. I did wonder if the un/consecrated ground thing was an error but I have seen it on more than one case. I could only remember one example though.
Imbecile was a description of people in the burial registers, like son of or wife or or shoemaker. I know what it means now but wasn't sure back then.
The mass grave thing is odd. While there must have been no say in who was buried there seems to be some time delay, in that siblings were buried together, then a few years later other people who share the same name were then also buried.
I'm not going to track down the extras in the graves though, so thank you for this information.
I should think having siblings in the same common grave would be down to whoever organised the burial ground.
I was surprised to see some of OH's relations in the same common grave (with two of three other people) even though there were gaps of several years between the burials and this in a huge cemetery in Southampton where the organisation must have been pretty complex. I wonder if the family asked "can X be put in grave B24?" or wherever, it would be done of possible?
I'm sure it would be done on request assuming the grave wasn't filled. I'm just stunned that they have so many in a grave, they must dig down a very long way, or have a few side by side, what I would consider a double plot.
I'm just stunned that they have so many in a grave, they must dig down a very long way
I think in many instances they didn't dig down so very far, but when it was time to reuse the grave they would not worry too much about disturbing the previous remains. In some conditions a body and coffin can deteriorate quickly, so the new burial might happen in the same spot as the previous one.
In London body parts were found above ground in some churchyards because of the excessive numbers of burials.
If you have a strong stomach you could try reading this!
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/jan/22/death-city-grisly-secrets-victorian-london-dead
Babies are often put into the graves of an unrelated adult (have that in my family as recently as 1940's). Not sure if its at the same time as the burial of the adult.
Most graves I've found have a maximum of 6 adults but some plots now range from 2 - 4.
As an aside, I wish the burial details were on English death certs.
As an aside, I wish the burial details were on English death certs.
Me too. We have BMD good certs.
Olde Crone
19-06-18, 09:43
Um, but you have to register a death in the UK BEFORE you can bury or cremate someone, so that would require two trips to the registry and presumably two certificates.
OC
Um, but you have to register a death in the UK BEFORE you can bury or cremate someone, so that would require two trips to the registry and presumably two certificates.
OC
The doctor writes a certificate of death when and where the person dies. Then you contact the funeral directors, have the funeral and the death cert is sent to the next of kin or person responsible. Nobody goes anywhere near the actual office.
I've been to the BDM Register once to get a copy of my grandfather's death cert. He'd died 20 years or so previously. Mum and I made a day trip of it. I can't remember why we went, I think Mum just wanted a copy and being a recent cert we couldn't order it by mail or online. Once was enough though, I don't think those of us down under would bother if we had to do it in person.
Mind you I wish I was into this hobby when my neighbour was high up in the BDM and we could actually see and touch the registers.
We do actually have two certs in this country: the doctor's cert and the death certificate. I got both for my mother.
I also understand that for recent deaths (possibly within the last fifty years, but I can't remember dates) there is a link between death and disposal of the body, it just isn't stated on the certificate. You presumably could discover that detail from the relevant registrar.
Interesting Phoenix. Our official death cert isn’t released until after the burial so details are on it. It’s very handy.
All the funeral directors need is the doctor’s cert saying the person us actually dead. They really don’t need to know how and why. I’ve got both for my mum as well.
All the funeral directors need is the doctor’s cert saying the person us actually dead.
That makes me feel safe. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
They really don’t need to know how and why.
My Grandma's doctor's certificate said why she died and how long the Dr had been treating her. I don't know where it is now though to see what else it might have said. I remember the GP walking up the street to the house to deliver it. He was only around the corner, it's probably the only time in recent history that a doctor walked to make house calls.
My mum’s says that too, but the need for the doctors cert is really just to make sure the person is dead. The other details are then added to the official death cert.
vBulletin® v3.8.7 PL3, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.