Archibald Charles McNeill

[Olde Crone]

Hello Susan

Have you investigated backwards yet? If not, you are in for an incredible story , lol. Briefly, George Watkins Holden and his more famous brother Dr John Watkins Holden (magician) were the illegitimate offspring of the Lord Lieutenant of Brecon, John Lloyd Vaughan Watkins and Emma Holden (background unknown). Lloyd Vaughan Watkins was from an important and ancient family of landed gentry. There were other illegitimate children, at least three, two of which were born to his second wife before their marriage and who were never acknowledged until JLVW died!

Let me know if you want any more detail, lol.

OC

[SusanSadler]

Dear OC
Thank you for this history although I'm not sure how I'm related to them? I'm looking for information about my father Archibald Charles McNeill, who I never really knew which is very sad as I'll never get the chance now as I know he died at sea, Cornwall. I'd love to know more about him.
You're a star for helping!
Susan

[Olde Crone]

Susan

If your grandmother was Midas McNeill, then she was born Midas Holden, the daughter of George Watkins Holden ( your great grandfather) and George Watkins Holden was the illegitimate son of John Lloyd Vaughan Watkins ( your great great grandfather) who was Lord Lieutenant of Brecon.

Can I suggest you start a new thread about Archibald McNeill, as the researchers on this forum won't look at this thread, being heartily sick of my Holdens, lol!

OC

[SusanSadler]

Archibald Charles McNeill died Jul-Sep 1974 in Stratton district, which ancestry says is in Cornwall. Date of birth 20 May 1926 which would (only just) fit with a registration in the Jul-Sep quarter and there are no other Archibald McNeills born in the Apr-Jun or Jul-Sep quarter so I reckon it's him.

It looks as though Midas and her husband emigrated to Australia as they appear on the e rolls over there.

Hello Kiterunner, Archibald Charles McNeill was my father and I'm looking for more information on him. Can you help please?

Thank you
Susan

[Merry]

What did you want to know?

Here he is, with his mother, on the 1939 Register:

103 Southbank Road , Southport C.B., Lancashire, England

Midas M McNeill dob 19 Aug 1888 Female occ Unpaid Domestic Duties married
Archibald C McNeill dob 20 May 1926 Male At School Single

The transcription of the above on Findmypast has Archibald's dob as 10 Apr 1915, but the correct date is on the actual mage!

[SusanSadler]

Please, can you help me find out more information about my father?

His DOB was 20 May 1926/died September 1974 Cornwall

Son of Charles and Midas

[SusanSadler]

Thank you Merry
Do you know if he had any brothers or sisters? Did he have any other children? I know his death was on the national news. I just wondered if I would ever be able to see it?
These are maybe questions you won't be able to answer, but thank you for your time

[Macbev]

I've posted this on o.C's thread, but will copy here as well:

Midas Maud McNeill died 3 Sep 1984, aged 96 yrs in Perth, Western Australian, resident in the suburb of Maylands. She was cremated at Karrakatta Cemetery, where her ashes were dispersed

[Merry]

I have copied some of the posts from the other thread above. They automatically post in chronological order, so apologies if the sequence doesn't make complete sense!

Thank you Merry
Do you know if he had any brothers or sisters? Did he have any other children? I know his death was on the national news. I just wondered if I would ever be able to see it?
These are maybe questions you won't be able to answer, but thank you for your time

There don't seem to be any other children from the marriage of Charles McNeill and Midas Holden. Do you know if Charles had been previously married? (do you have a copy of their marriage certificate?) As Charles isn't with Midas on the 1939 register we don't have anything to tell us which Charles McNeill he is at the moment!

On the 1911 census when Midas was aged 23, the boxes alongside her name regarding numbers of children born have a neat dash in each one, suggesting at that point she had not given birth to any living children. Those boxes were only supposed to be filled in for married women. It might be a lot more tricky to find out if she had any children between that date and when she was married in 1925.

You say Archibald's death was on the national news - do you know why? I couldn't find anything in the newspapers on FMP, but coverage isn't good for the 1970s. I would have checked 'The Times' database, but my local library has decided I need a password to access their site from home (something they haven't needed in the last 15 years!), so I'm going to have to sort that before I can look for you.

There are two marriages in England/Wales for an Archibald C McNeill. We don't post about potentially living people without their permission on this site, so can I suggest to see the names you have a look here:

https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Click marriages, type his name in and click find. To see the full name of each spouse click the page number at the end of each entry (820 and 1175 in this case). I don't know if one of those marriages is to your mother. Perhaps you could send me a private message telling me if you know of these brides, as that would save me from looking for things you may already know! (Just click my name at the top of this post and the second option is send a private message).

[Merry]

On the 1925 marriage index entry Charles McNeill has no middle initial(s). He and Midas appear on the Cheshire electoral rolls (on FMP) in 1930 and 1931 and in 1931 Charles has the middle name Massie.

This might be him:

Births Mar 1895 (>99%)
McNeill Charles Massey Liverpool 8b 19

Kiterunner mentioned that Charles and Midas appear on the Australian electoral rolls (I don't pay for worldwide access on Ancestry, so I can't see that) so I don't know if his middle name is on those too.

You really need the 1925 marriage cert to compare Charles' father's details with the father of Charles b 1895. However, this looks pretty hopeful - here is a transcription of Charles Massey McNeill's baptism and see the first name of his father!!:

Charles Massey Mcneill baptised 10 Jan 1895 at St Peters, Liverpool, Lancashire, England parents Archibald and Wilhelmina McNeill.

I don't know if you have a subscription to Ancestry. If you do you can click this link to see Charles with his mother in 1901:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7814/LANRG13_3418_3421-0116/20338549?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dACO3429%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3duki1901%26so%3d 2%26pcat%3d35%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3dwil*a%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dmc*l%26gsln_x%3 d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV% 3d2%26MSV%3d1%26uidh%3d672&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

and Charles's parents and siblings in 1911:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_22296_0469_03/19385622?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dACO3432%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3d1911england%26s o%3d2%26pcat%3d35%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3dwil*a%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dmc*l%26gsln_x%3 d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV% 3d2%26MSV%3d1%26uidh%3d672&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

If you don't have a sub I can types out the entries. If you would like to get a subscription there is a link right at the top of this page.

I have run out of time now. Back later...... :)

[Macbev]

I think some of this has already been posted:

Nov 1950 Mr C. McNeill, 55 yrs, of 88 South Bank road, Southport, Lancs, builders' labourer accompanied Mrs M.M. McNeill, 62 yrs on the 'Asturias' from Southampton to Australia. Address in Victoria is given as 37 Brumley st Leongatha Vic

Charles (no middle name given) and Midas appear on the 1958 electoral roll at 18 Elsie st Watermans Bay WA. On later rolls, Midas is living alone.

There is a burial registered for Charles Massey McNeill, died 30 Sep 1959 aged 64, resident of Watermans Bay

http://www2.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/details.php?id=KC00015214

Trove doesn't cover past 1954 at present, but next time I am near the State Library, I can call in and look at the microfilm of the newspaper for that date to see if there is a death notice with info about relatives.

[Macbev]

You really need the 1925 marriage cert to compare Charles' father's details with the father of Charles b 1895. However, this looks pretty hopeful - here is a transcription of Charles Massey McNeill's baptism and see the first name of his father!!:

Charles Massey Mcneill baptised 10 Jan 1895 at St Peters, Liverpool, Lancashire, England parents Archibald and Wilhelmina McNeill.

These same parents (Archibald and Wilhelmina) are cited on the Australian death index for Charles Massey McNeill, d. 1959

[Macbev]

Familysearch.org has a marriage 29 Mar 1891 at St John the Baptist, Liverpool, Lancs between Archibald McNeill,b. 1865, s/o James McNeill, to Wilhemina Massey, b. 1871, d/o Charles Massey. Both single at the time of marriage

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NFFF-YF7

[Macbev]

Other children shown [on 1911 census on familysearch.org] born to Archibald and Wilhemina are:
George McNeill, b.1902 Toxteth Parh Liverpool
Walter McNeill, b. 1904 liverpool

[SusanSadler]

Thank you so very much. Yes, they did go to Austrailia to live.
I believe My father died in a boating accident Bude North Cornwall in 1974 and by the information you have sent me (thank you again), it looks like he married in 1973. I was told he was married before that as well but that could be incorrect

[Merry]

The other possible marriage is in 1954 in Liverpool District.

[Merry]

I still can't get in to the right newspaper site, but here is some info about your father's death from his probate entry:

MCNEILL, Archibald Charles of 19 Western Av Blacon Chester last seen alive 22 May 1974 dead body found 9 June 1974 Administration with Will Sheffield 24 Jan 1975 £3290 753009214K

If you end up having to search microfilm for any newspaper records at least you have some dates to work with.

[Merry]

Through a different site I've got in to The Observer, The Guardian and The Times newspapers but didn't find anything in May or June 1974 searching either his name or various other words such as drowned/drowning/accident/Bude etc.

[SusanSadler]

So sad to be in the sea so long :(
Your information is helping me to piece together questions I have. I wouldn't know how to search microfilm though.
Do you know how I will find out about his 1954 marriage?
Thank you again

[Merry]

I will send you a private message re the 1954 marriage.