Fowlers

[Merry]

Can anyone see what happened to these sisters?

1851 census:

George Street, Saint Mary Newington, Newington, London & Surrey, England

Jemima Fowler Head Unmarried Female 29 Hat Trimmer b Lambeth, Surrey
Phoebe Fowler Sister Unmarried Female 23 Artificial Flower Maker b Lambeth, Surrey

They are the children of James and Jemima Fowler who were both dec'd by 1851. The family is non-conformist.

[ElizabethHerts]

The dates look slightly out, Merry:

Name: Jemima Elizabeth Fowler
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 3 Mar 1818
Birth Place: China Terrace Wesleyan,Lambeth,Surrey,England
Father: James Fowler
Mother: Jemima

Name: Phebe Fowler
Birth Date: 4 Sep 1823
Birth Place: St Mary Lambeth, Surrey, England
Gender: Female
Event Type: Birth
Father: James Fowler
Mother: Jemima Fowler
Denomination: Wesleyan

Name: Alfred Fowler
Birth Date: 28 Jun 1822
Birth Place: St Mary Lambeth, Surrey, England
Gender: Male
Event Type: Baptism
Father: James Fowler
Mother: Jemima Fowler
Baptism Date: 8 Dec 1822
Baptism Place: Lambeth China Terrace, London, England
Denomination: Wesleyan

[Merry]

Maybe they were still looking for husbands?!

I can't find them or their mother in 1841. (She died in 1847 in Newington district aged 59).

[Merry]

I haven't got to the end of this bit below yet, but have run out of time.....

I also haven't got time to re-look up all the exact entries, so this is from memory!!

Phoebe and Jemima's brother, Alfred, b 1822, married Esther Sarah Rolls some time in the 1840s in Reading District. They are together in 1851 - her name is spelled incorrectly - think it began with Eas* (on Ancestry).

Alfred died in 1853/4 and Esther Sarah remarried in 1854 to William Llewellin, a hatter. (LMA entry, Ancestry).

I can only find one child Llewel*n mmn Rolls and that is Issachar (Isachar) b 1854 died 1855.

Isachar's death was reg in Bermondsey, but in the same year there's a death in Southwark (?) for an Esther Llewellyn (no middle name), but I've not looked up her age yet.

After that I couldn't see another marriage for widower William, but in 1861 there is a William Llewellyn, hatter, on the page before this one:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/SRYRG9_329_331-0856/6147418?backurl=https%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1861%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db %26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dwill iam%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dllewellyn%26gsln_x%3d1%2 6MSAV%3d2%26MSV%3d1%26uidh%3d672&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=SRYRG9_329_ 331-0857

and his 'wife' is called Phebe. Again, she is a bit young, but her age does fit with the 1851 census for Phoebe in my opening post (she could be his late wife's sister-in-law). I tried quickly looking up the birth registrations for the children in that household (note William was a bachelor in 1854, so Mary was probably not a Llewellyn, but I don't know about the others) but didn't get anywhere constructive. I haven't looked for any baptisms yet.

[Merry]

Hmmm.... looks like Phebe's maiden name may be Clarke as Henry Llewellyn here:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/LNDRG11_530_533-0277/20353550?backurl=https%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co. uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dACO2870%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3duki1881%26so%3d 2%26pcat%3d35%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3dwil*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dllewell*n%26gsln _x%3d1%26msbdy%3d1856%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26 cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%2 6MSV%3d1%26uidh%3d672&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

and Elizabeth Llewellyn on the other census I posted have mmn Clarke. So, this Phoebe is probably a red herring.

[Merry]

Unbelievably, the same Thomas Jones hatter, from Carlisle, who was with Phoebe (Clarke?) in 1881 was married to a Jemima, b Lambeth, in 1861!

I can't seem to make her name Fowler though. On the other hand, I'm not sure what her maiden name is!

[Merry]

Oh I don't know. When I do searches for children born Jones with mmn Fowler I do get a few possible matches for this extended family. Certainly the children born to Jemima look like they may be Fowlers.

[kiterunner]

And the names of some of the children do seem to fit with the Fowler family - Mary Ann Phebe (Mary on the 1861 census but Mary Ann Phebe on birth reg), Esther and Alfred. I haven't found birth regs for Esther and Alfred with MMN Fowler though; have you?

[kiterunner]

Oh, it looks as though the girl who is down as Esther in 1861 could be down as Martha in 1871 (with Thomas and Phoebe), so her birth reg could be Martha Ann Jones Jan-Mar 1857 St Saviour Southwark, MMN Fowler.

[kiterunner]

There is a Jemima Jones death Apr-Jun 1869 St George Southwark, age 47.

[kiterunner]

Burial at Victoria Park Cemetery, Hackney (non-conformist) 15 Apr 1869, Jemima Jones of 1 Wellington Pce, St Georges Southwark, age 47:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2972/40612_B0152048-00112/284052?backurl=https%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dCzj13505%26_phstart%3dsuc cessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3duknonconformis tvitals%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dBMD_DEATH%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3djem*%26g sfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3djones%26gsln_x%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3 d1%26msddy%3d1869%26msddy_x%3d1%26msddp%3d1%26cpxt %3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Merry]

Thank you Kate. I agree about the Esther/Martha thing and the 1869 death though I'd not seen the burial.

I was a bit confused about Thomas Jones. I wondered if he might have already been married before Jemima came along, so looked for him in 1851. For a second I thought I had him with wife Jane, but that Thomas was roughly 20 years older, same occ and place of birth and in a similar area of London. I couldn't find a younger version!

[kiterunner]

That Thomas is still with Jane in 1861, in Islington.

[Merry]

Ah, OK thanks.

[Merry]

I don't think I need to type out all the information in detail here, but I don't think I can escape the fact that the Mrs Jones whose first name was Phoebe was nee Clark(e). She had children with Mr Griffith and William Llewellyn but doesn't seem to have married either of them, nor Thomas Jones either.

So...... what happened to Phoebe Fowler?? I have her in 1851 in post #1 but nothing after that.

[kiterunner]

There is a Phoebe Fowler death Jan-Mar 1853 Biggleswade, age 30. Though that could be the one who is 27 on the 1851 census, a servant in St George Hanover Square born Essex.

[Merry]

Thanks.

That GRO entry is not on Ancestry. I tend to forget their records are not as complete as FreeBMD etc for pre-1915.