1939 Register

[Terri]

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=tna%2fr39%2f0594%2f0594h%2f016&parentid=tna%2fr39%2f0594%2f0594h%2f015%2f43

Could someone with an FMP sub unravel the first 3 names on the above page. There are a lot of dates attached to the girls that I can't connect to them. It appears that the last 2 surnames have been added later.

At the bottom of the previous page are George Harris, Ellen Harris and daughter Ann Harris at the same address. I'm trying to figure out if any of the 3 girls on the above page are related.

George and Ellen had a daughter called Edith Alice, registered Sep qtr 1910. I couldn't see a birth for an Edith Alice Lloyd Jones, or a marriage for an Edith Alice to a Lloyd Jones, or not one that seems remotely relevant.

Thanks.

[Katarzyna]

What was Ellen's maiden name Terri? (George's wife)

[Terri]

Kat, it was Lyons. They had 6 children, 5 alive in 1911. I have 4 children for them so far born between 1896 and 1910. There are too many possibles with the Harris-Lyons name combination and place of birth to figure out exactly which children on the GRO are theirs without census information.

[Mary from Italy]

Olive M Harris married William A Ramsay in Wandsworth RD in 1957.

An Olive May Ramsay died in Wandsworth in 1984. Her dob was 29/12/1907, which is what the first date written against her name in the 1939 Register looks like.

This looks like the matching birth:

HARRIS, OLIVE MAY / LLOYD
GRO Reference: 1907 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 541

[Mary from Italy]

This is presumably Edith Alice's birth:

HARRIS, EDITH ALICE / LYNES
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 356

The date fits with the dob given in the 1939 Register.

[Mary from Italy]

The most likely candidate for Olive May in 1911 is in the South Western Fever Hospital in Stockwell.

[Terri]

Ooooh that is a turn up. I thought her name looked like Norris, so I wasn't sure............. but Wales? ? She was supposed to have been born in Lambeth! lol There were distant Harris cousins in Wales though. That's one to think about. Thanks Mary ;)

[Mary from Italy]

As there were only 3 children with George and Ellen in 1911 although they say they had 5 surviving children, Olive could well be one of them.

[Terri]

This is presumably Edith Alice's birth:

HARRIS, EDITH ALICE / LYNES
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 356

The date fits with the dob given in the 1939 Register.

Yes that is correct. The other children that I know of are:
Ellen Adelaide born 1896
Winifred Mabel 1898
Annie Agnes 1900
Edith Alice 1910

so I'm guessing the 2 I have missed were born in the gap between 1900 and 1910. That puts Olive neatly in there .......... but Wales?? I would never have guessed ...!

[Mary from Italy]

Ooooh that is a turn up. I thought her name looked like Norris, so I wasn't sure............. but Wales? ?

And the mmn is Lloyd...

[Terri]

And the mmn is Lloyd...

Yes ...... not a million miles away from Lyons.

But thinking about it, if she was born 29th Dec 1907, I would expect the registration to be Mar qtr 1908

[Terri]

Enough for tonight, I'm going to bed ......! :D

[Mary from Italy]

Gladys Rita Cooper, born 29 Sep 1922, died in the Hitchin RD in 2005.

A Rita Harris married Robert Cooper in Wandsworth in the 3rd quarter of 1943; the date 4/10/1943 is given in the margin of the 1939 Register, so I should think that's the right couple.

I can't find an obvious birth for a Rita/Gladys Harris in 1922, though.

In view of her age, she's not likely to be Ellen's child; maybe Ann's?

[Mary from Italy]

An Edith A Harris married Edgar L Jones in Wandsworth in the 3rd quarter of 1945, and the first date against her name in the 1939 Register is 1/8/45.

The second date is 2/5/49, which might indicate a second marriage. There's a possible death for Edgar in Surrey North Western in 1948, but I can't see an obvious remarriage for Edith.

An Edith A Lloyd-Jones, aged 50, died in Willesden RD in 1960.

[Mary from Italy]

By the way, judging from my mum's entry, I think the dates in the margin must be the dates when the marriage was entered in the Register, not the actual marriage date.

[Katarzyna]

HARRIS, EDITH ALICE LYNES
GRO Reference: 1910 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 356
This is the only one I can see registered at the correct Qtr
I cannot see an ANN b 1900 with mmn Lyons or anything like.
Do you think they may be nieces?

Edit missed all of Marys lol .

[Mary from Italy]

OK, the death I found for Edgar is wrong, but Edith's death is correct. You'll find Edith Alice LLoyd-Jones in the National Probate Calendar, and admon was granted to Edgar LLoyd-Jones, so there was no second marriage.

Perhaps they both changed their name to LLoyd-Jones in 1949.

[Katarzyna]

Harris Olive May March 1908 Lambeth 1d 348 From FreeBMD
This is not on the GRO site.

[Mary from Italy]

This will be Annie's birth:

HARRIS, AGNES ANNIE / LYONS
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 356

[Mary from Italy]

Harris Olive May March 1908 Lambeth 1d 348 From FreeBMD
This is not on the GRO site.

It is, actually, but I ruled it out because of the mmn. The birthplace and date are certainly more likely, though.

HARRIS, OLIVE MAY / FORD
GRO Reference: 1908 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 348

[Mary from Italy]

Agnes Annie Harris, with the right date of birth, died in Wandsworth RD in 1982.

[Terri]

Wow, ladies, you are amazing - almost sorted it all out while I was lounging in bed!

Ok, so Olive is definitely a Harris, origins as yet unknown, but probably daughter of George and Ellen.
Edith Alice looks to definitely be their daughter as I suspected.
Gladys Rita - maybe not George and Ellen's daughter

Wonderful stuff! :D:D:D xxx

[Terri]

It is, actually, but I ruled it out because of the mmn. The birthplace and date are certainly more likely, though.

HARRIS, OLIVE MAY / FORD
GRO Reference: 1908 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 348

Seems to fit ....... though the "Ford" is a mystery.

George's brother married a Ford - but they had 3 children by 1911 and all have been accounted for.

I will put her in, with a big question mark.

[Mary from Italy]

Might be worth having a look at the London school records to see if you can find Olive.

I haven't found any baptisms for the family, but they only go up to 1906 on Ancestry anyway.

I also didn't find any other probates, only Edith's admon, which is a pity, because a will might have helped to clarify the relationships.

[Mary from Italy]

I found the school records for the Pontypridd Olive; she was born on 10/7/07 and her father was called Gilbert, so we can rule her out.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbor%2fschool%2fglam%2fepp19_1%2f0090&parentid=gbor%2fschool%2fepp191%2f1189605&highlights=%22%22

[Terri]

Thanks Mary, you've worked wonders.

If only they'd added family relationships to the 1939 Register - I have so many mysterious "lodgers".

[Mary from Italy]

Yes, very annoying.