Esther Brogan married James Holden

[Olde Crone]

I am embarrassed to admit that I have already thoroughly researched this couple and eliminated them from my enquiries but I cannot remember why! As all my research notes are sellotaped up in my daughter's loft awaiting a move to my permanent home, I cannot easily access the information.

My third cousin has just contacted me about this couple. He feels they may be the parents of our Joseph Holden b 1854 in Manchester. I know I eliminated them, possibly because they had many other children beside Joseph and I found them in 1871, when OUR James was remarried and Joseph was with him.

James Holden and Esther Brogan married in 1851 in Prescot Lancs and most of their children were born and baptised there. Please can anyone see them in 1861 or 1871?

OC

[kiterunner]

This could be them in 1871 as James was a glassmaker on their marriage:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7619/LANRG10_3866_3867-0312/27932236?backurl=https%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co. uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

71 Robins Lane, Sutton, St Helens, Lancs
James Holding Head Mar 51 Foreman Glass Inspectors Lancashire Sutton
Esther Do Wife Mar 39 Lancashire Eccleston
children: James 18, Joseph 16, John 14, William 11, Esther 9, Thomas 4, Edward 1, all born Sutton.

[kiterunner]

There are Holden / Brogan birth regs in Prescot district matching most of the children listed in that 1871 census entry so it must be them.

[Merry]

But wasn't your James Holden married to whatever-her-name-was Grimshaw from the Isle of Man before 1861??

[kiterunner]

Yes, this is your James and Joseph in 1871, isn't it?

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7619/LANRG10_4050_4052-0076/17829077?backurl=https%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co. uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dCzj11969%26_phstart%3dsuc cessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3duki1871%26so%3 d2%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3djos*%26g sfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dhold*n*%26gsln_x%3d1%26msbdy_x% 3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d1854%26gs kw%3dmanc*%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26cat bucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5%26MSV%3d1&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

79 Percival St, Manchester
James Holden Head M 46 Engine Driver Lancashire Chorley
Ellen Do Wife Mar 49 Isle of Man
Joseph Do Son 16 Grocer's Assistant Manchester
James Do Do 10 Scholar Do
William Do Do 6 Do Do.

[Olde Crone]

Thankyou Kate, yes, that is why I eliminated them, that and the fact that he was a glassmaker. I didn't think he would have swapped engine driving for golass making as both those things were skilled.

Merry, yes, my James was married to Ellen Grimshaw before 1861. My cousin couldn't find James and Esther in 61 and 71, so thought Esther must have died and James married Ellen Grimshaw.

I can now tell my cousin why James Holden and Esther Brogan are not our 2x ggps. Thankyou for saving me from a rummage in my daughter's loft!

OC