Manorial Court records

[HowardRichards]

I have translated the extant manorial court records for the manor of Wootton and Boars Hill, Berkshire( Oxfordshire since 1974). One entry in a record from 1592 is unclear, despite much thought and research. The clerk writes a presentment from the manor jury as follows:

Etiam presentant quod inhabitants predicti quod non habent anglice a Rok net secundum tenuram sive seisinam et offendent statutum ideo in misericordia xid

If this is correct I take it to mean:

They also present that the aforesaid inhabitants who/because they do not have
in English a Rok net according to tenure or possession are therefore in mercy and fined 11 pence.

Does anyone have any suggestions for the English word Rok net or similar? It appears to be a condition applying to holders of land. It is the only word in the document which begins with a capital apart from proper names and first word in sentences.

[kiterunner]

Could it be Roll (maybe spelt Role) rather than Rok?

[HowardRichards]

Thanks. I think it's a k but will try some research with your suggestion.

[Phoenix]

The internet isn't the least helpful here!

Could it be something to scour ditches, or otherwise fulfill responsibilities for tidyness?

[Phoenix]

This might be a modern equivalent:

https://www.zapals.com/processional-deep-leaf-rake-skimmer-net-for-swimming-pool.html?geoip_country=GB&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9qG6qaO82AIVyZ3tCh2Byg_kEAQYAyAB EgKcvPD_BwE

[Mary from Italy]

Can you post the original here so we can have a look at the handwriting?

[HowardRichards]

Thanks for reply. I wondered whether it was something of this kind. In other documents the residents are told to clear ditches and maintain their property so it could be a term for a tool which I have so far not found. Also medieval / Tudor villagers used nets weighted by stones/rocks in river fisheries. This might apply to the neighbouring manor of Cumnor which is bounded by the River Thames but seems less convincing for Wootton which had a "common stream" but no references to it supporting fishing.I'll follow a line of research based on your suggestion.

[HowardRichards]

I'll try to make a clear copy and post it here.

[HowardRichards]

I made a scanned copy from my paper copy of the original in the National Archives. Unfortunately the forum limits an attached Pdf file to 19.5 kb and this one is 595kb - all Pdf files seem to be of similar size for a single sheet. Tried an email to myself and the attachment works perfectly . I'm a new member. Do you know a way to send attachments successfully via the forum?
All the acceptable file types seem to have tiny size limits.

[kiterunner]

Either take a screenshot of just the bit that says "Rok net" and upload that, or upload the PDF somewhere else (e.g. cloud storage) and post a link to it.

[HowardRichards]

Thank you. I'll try that.

[HowardRichards]

The problematic sentence begins about 12 lines from foot and has a large gap before the possible words anglice a Rok net

http://camyqjdm.tkhcloudstorage.com/item0d349f8fe3d343e587a25870d290c17e

[ElizabethHerts]

Howard, it looks more like "nec" than "net" to me.

Edit: On reflection, could be "net". The height of the stroke of t varies.

[Phoenix]

That large gap suggests that the clerk felt there ought to be a latin word for it, but could not suggest one.

Is there a good local collection of probate inventories? I suspect it is a really local term, and the same object, on the other side of the country, would be called something quite different.

[kiterunner]

I think it could well be nec - Latin for neither / nor.

[ElizabethHerts]

That was my thinking, Kite.

[HowardRichards]

I wondered about that too - Latin nec. I have assumed the word at the very end of the line to be sive = or (although it is difficult to be sure and it is 50% assumption). No reference books or grammars I have seen have nec.....sive. Nec....nec to mean neither nor and sive...sive to mean either or are standard. Is nec... sive possible?
Kite's suggestion that a local term is involved could be possible. I have a series of wills and inventories from the period which may shed some light.
Thanks for your interest and help again.

[kiterunner]

It wasn't my suggestion!

I can't see the full word after tenurem, but it doesn't look to me as though it begins with an "s".

Is it something like because they do not have (whatever it is) nor a secondary tenure?

[HowardRichards]

No, sorry. That particular suggestion came from Pheonix.

I was never absolutely sure it began with s. Could be secondary tenure perhaps. Also the possibility of Rok being Roll (sounds like something from the 60s!) may refer to the copy of the court roll each land copyholder had to have to prove possession.
I'll have a fresh look after the weekend. Any other ideas welcome before then.

[ElizabethHerts]

Etiam presentant quod inhabitants predicti quod non habent anglice a Rok net secundum tenuram sive seisinam et offendent statutum ideo in misericordia xid


The word you say is "seisinam" doesn't look like that to me. It looks more like "formen" (not sure about the ending).

The r is like the r in pre[se]ntant and tenurem.

[kiterunner]

Also the possibility of Rok being Roll (sounds like something from the 60s!) may refer to the copy of the court roll each land copyholder had to have to prove possession.
I'll have a fresh look after the weekend. Any other ideas welcome before then.

No, now I've seen it, the last letter is definitely a k. Could it be Rook? Or something else ending in ook?

[Janet]

I'm sure I have no business making such wild guesses, not being familiar with that handwriting in the slightest, but when I looked at it I imagined I saw an H. A Google search revealed the existence of a thing called a Hook net. Do you suppose?
Knight's New Mechanical Dictionary. A description of tools, instruments, machines, processes, and engineering. With indexical references to technical journals (1876-1880.) by Edward Henry Knight (https://books.google.com/books?id=T0swAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA341&lpg=PA341&dq="hook+net"&source=bl&ots=YiCAEr1B5p&sig=7MGDtGPL3EA_IZxX3L0tkyh6Yls&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjn3o-E5sLYAhXMqlMKHS3oCkUQ6AEIYjAO#v=onepage&q=%22hook%20net%22&f=false)

[HowardRichards]

Thank you Janet. Wild guesses welcome-I've made a few myself! Pretty certain it is a capital R. One of my ancestors,Simon Richards is named in the document. It has to be a term,name or tool etc. that is not well known .

[Janet]

Hm. Okay, sticking my neck out further yet, there's a "Rook-net" too. I should have thought to investigate that when Kite first pointed it up.

Zoologist: A Monthly Journal of Natural History (1894) quoting Booke of Fishing (1590) and Art of Fowling (1621) (https://books.google.com/books?id=ZSxEAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq="rook+net"&source=bl&ots=CiTTMKdhyt&sig=EPwffuwRJwy5Bt5iCYW1hJIPPcE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUyI-LtMbYAhXR51MKHaceAiI4ChDoAQgtMAI#v=onepage&q=%22rook%20net%22&f=false)

A better fit perhaps because it involves fowling, not fishing?

[HowardRichards]

Could be "rook net". I haven't found a reference for this Elizabethan period but such things clearly existed and may have been used back then. More research! Thanks Janet.
I'll just throw in one more thing.
The entry above I read as:
Qui dicunt super sacramentum suum et presentant quod anglice le butte sunt in defectu ideo in misericordia iis.

After long consideration I could only come up with: They (the jury) state on their oath and present that English - the Buttes ( a family name ) are in default and fined 2 shillings. This by linking it to the following sentence which contains " the aforesaid inhabitants"
This is wrong. I recently saw a booklet (about Wootton) written by an Oxford academic, now deceased, which referred to the residents having to maintain " the butts" i.e the archery butts , target mounds for villagers' practice. Archery was surely becoming less important then, but Henry VIII had apparently insisted on their upkeep.
So it should probably read ..........the butts are defective/in disrepair. It doesn't specify any residents as responsible. Does this give any context to Rok net. Any archery experts out there?
The aforesaid inhabitants may refer to any of the tenants named above in the doc. as being present .

[HowardRichards]

Thanks to your various comments and suggestions I think I have the solution.

The latin should read more as follows: Etiam presentant quod inhabitantes predicti quod non habent anglice a Rok net secundum tenurem unam (?) formam et offendent statutum ideo in misericordia iis.

Research into rook net eventually found a website Statutes at Large Magna charta to 1800, which , on page 254 has a statute from 1532 ( Henry VIII) to enforce the destruction of rooks, crows etc as injurious to farmland and crops. Each village was responsible for the maintenance and use of net(s) to prevent harm to crops upon pain of a fine to the crown.
This manorial record is from April (1591) when rooks were beginning to nest and crops had been sown.
The translation should perhaps be something like:
They also present that aforesaid inhabitants who do not have English a Rook net according to the single form of tenure (?) and offend the statute are in mercy and fined 2 shillings.

[Olde Crone]

Well done Janet!

How curious though, that the scribe did not know the Latin word for Rook. Even I know that!

OC

[Janet]

My heart soars!

*lies down, fibrillating*

As usual, however, credit for the first solid pointer goes to Kite.