Hailes

[kiterunner]

I would welcome some help sorting out Ebenezer Hailes' family from this 1881 census entry, please:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/LNDRG11_217_221-0685/14095955?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/19209336/person/770727579/facts

62 Mansfield Rd, Pancras, London
Ebenezer Hailes Head Mar 43 House Painter Middx City of London
Ann Do Wife Mar 42 Laundress Do Chelsea
William Do Son 14 French Polisher Do St Pancras
James Do Son 11 Scholar Do Do
Alfred Do Son 8 Do Do Do.

Ebenezer was born 9 Jan 1835, the son of Thomas and Martha. He married Mary Walker 30 Nov 1856 at St Paul, Bermondsey, and this is them in 1871:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7619/LNDRG10_598_600-0123/5273071?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/19209336/person/770727574/facts
2 Chapel Court, St George Southwark, London
Ebenezer Hailes Head M 36 Oilman's Assistant City of London
Mary Do Wife M 37 Do
Martha Do Daur 13 General Serv Surrey Southwark
Mary Do Do 10 Scholar Do Do
Elizabeth Do Do 8 Do Do Do.

Mary sr died in 1872 in Pancras, age 37. I can't find a marriage between Ebenezer and Ann. I imagine that William and James were Ann's children by a previous partner, and I don't know where Alfred fits in.

I can't find Ebenezer in 1891, nor Ann, William, James and Alfred.

But I found the marriage of William James Hailes to Mary Louisa Searle 8 Dec 1890 at St John Holloway. He is 23, a bachelor, plumber, son of Ebenezer Hailes (deceased), house painter. She is 24, spinster, daughter of William Searle, sea captain. (No connection to any other Searles in my tree that I know of!) Residence for both is 77 Junction Rd. I haven't managed to find this couple on any censuses. I haven't found 77 Junction Rd on the 1891 census yet to check whether they're there.

Despite that "deceased", Ebenezer died in 1920 in Southwark. He is with daughter Mary in 1901 and in the workhouse in 1911. Workhouse records list his next of kin as daughters Mrs (Mary) Clerke and Mrs (Martha) Wray and niece Edith Hailes. No mention of any sons. His occupation on the workhouse records is Potman. He seems to have quite a few different occupations over the years.

So what I'm trying to find out is who Ann was, and where Alfred fits in to the family, and where Ebenezer, Ann, William and his wife, James, and Alfred were in 1891. If William thought that Ebenezer was dead by 1890 I guess Ebenezer and Ann had split up, yet William still had the surname Hailes.

[kiterunner]

Hmm, I've finally found 77 Junction Rd in 1891 and this family are there:
Ann Monk Head Wid 53 Laundress London Kentish Town
William Monk Son S 24 Bricklayer Do Do
Alfred Do Son 17 Butcher's Assistant Do Do.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/6598/LNDRG12_142_143-0007/20451758?backurl=https%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co. uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

So was "William James Hailes" James from the 1881 census?

[kiterunner]

This is Ann Monk and her family in 1871 but there isn't a James:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7619/LNDRG10_236_239-0460?pid=9328360&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DCzj10553%26_phstart%3DsuccessSour ce%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1871%26 gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26 gsfn%3Dwil*%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Dmonk*%26gsln_x%3 D1%26msbdy%3D1867%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D2%26msmn g%3Dann*%26msmng_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3Dvm5%26p cat%3D35%26fh%3D0%26h%3D9328360%26recoff%3D%26ml_r pos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Czj10553&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=LNDRG10_236_239-0459
And her birthplace is still Kentish Town, not Chelsea.

[Phoenix]

Or did William go straight back to Mum after marriage?

[kiterunner]

He would also have had to change occupation again, Phoenix - William Hailes was a French polisher in 1881, William James Hailes was a plumber in 1890, and then William Monk is a bricklayer in 1891. But considering how many times Ebenezer changed occupations, it's certainly possible.

[kiterunner]

Ann Monk's children come up on the online GRO birth index with MMN Lynch, although the 1871 census seems to say she is unmarried. No Hailes / Lynch or Hailes / Monk births come up. Possible marriage for her from FreeBMD: Thomas Monk / Ann Lynch Jul-Sep 1858 Islington, though I haven't checked whether they married each other yet.

Edit - these are the Monk / Lynch children on the index:
Clarissa Ann Jul-Sep 1858 Pancras
William Oct-Dec 1859 Pancras
Margaret Jul-Sep 1861 Pancras
Amelia Apr-Jun 1863 Pancras
Ann Apr-Jun 1865 Pancras
William Jul-Sep 1867 Pancras

[kiterunner]

And I still can't find a birth registration for Alfred, not under Hailes, Monk or Lynch.

[Merry]

Ann Lynch did marry Thomas Monk in Islington in 1858:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1623/31280_196086-00135/5192524?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dOuS1655%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dlmamarriages%26 so%3d2%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3dann*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dlynch%26gsln_x%3 d1%26msgdy%3d1858%26msgdy_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d 4%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26MSV%3d1%26uidh%3 d672&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Is one of the witnesses a Clarissa?

Here they are in 1861:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/MDXRG9_122_124-0441/5025336?backurl=https%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1861%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db %26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dclar *%26gsfn_x%3d1%26msbdy%3d1859%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbd p%3d1%26msmng%3dann*%26msmng_x%3d1%26gskw%3dpancra s%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26MSV%3d1%26uidh%3d672&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Merry]

Ancestry have Thomas as aged 51 in 1861, but I think he might be 31 and this is also him perhaps:

Deaths Dec 1869
Monk Thomas 42 Pancras 1b 45

[Merry]

The marriage witness, Clarissa Seal, seems to be the sister of Thomas Monk. She married Thomas James Seal in 1856. Her father was William Monk, brewer, same as Thomas's. Thomas Monk was a witness to her marriage.

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Merry. I found Ann Monk with her daughter Ann and granddaughter Alice in 1901, but not found her in 1911 yet (if she was still alive). (Hoping against hope for a total number of her children from the 1911.)
William Monk is also in that 1901 entry, with wife Mary (nee Bush) and children. Possible William Thomas Monk / Mary Maria Bush marriage in 1891 but not found image for it to check. Looks likely as the 1911 census says they have been married for 20 years.

[kiterunner]

Found Ann in 1911, but she didn't fill in the numbers of children:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_00785_0283_03/45684?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2 fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911England%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_ r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3d alic*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dmonk%26gsln_x%3d1%26ms bdy%3d1893%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26MSAV%3d2%26 uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults