Trenley/Hill

[vita]

I've been having another look at a couple of long standing brick walls & in

particular the connections between my Trenleys of Denham, Bucks,& the Hill

family of nearby Harefield.

A couple of months ago I was contacted here by new member Ranwell who had

seen my 'Moxley, Redman & Trenley' post. He is descended from

Robert,younger brother of my 7xg/grandfather Edward Trenley. Robert was

born 1686 & married Jane Hill, daughter of John Hill, a local landowner.

I'd come across the Hill name before - mainly in business dealings between

the Trenleys & another local landowner Benjamin Way whose agent was

named Hill but I don't know if he was from the same family as Jane.

Also, I have the unresolved question of the identity of a Mary Trenley who

married William Hill at St. Mary le Strand in 1790 with 4xg/grandfather

Isaac Headland as witness. There may be no connection between William &

the other Hills but I would appreciate any advice as to where I might be

going with this as I'm still not very good when I hit a brick wall.

[kiterunner]

Have you looked to see whether William and / or Mary left a will, Vita?

[vita]

Yes, but I couldn't find one, Kite.

[kiterunner]

What are the full details from William and Mary's marriage, please?

[Merry]

The marriage of William Hill and Mary Trenly tool place at St Botolph, Aldgate, not St Mary le Strand and the year was 1797 (15 Apr) not 1790.

They were bachelor and spinster. He was OTP and she was of the parish of St Giles Cripplegate. Marriage was by licence. They both signed and so did both witnesses. One, as vita said, was Isaac Headland and the other was Ann Headland.

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Merry. That explains why I couldn't find it!

[Merry]

No, I didn't find it for ages either!

I did find this on another thread here, which accounts for the mistake, I think....

Ann Trenley (bap 1755 Denham), married William Moore at St Mary le Strand in 1790.

Apparently (according to me on the other thread!) Ann Trenley was probably the sister of Isaac Headland's wife Sarah nee Trenley. I would have liked her to have been the other witness at the 1797 wedding, but she would have been Mrs Moore by then!

[kiterunner]

Yes, I just found post #217 on the other thread:

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=18921&page=22

May take a while to reread that whole thread!

[Merry]

I searched Strand Headland to find that post. I've not re-read the whole thread!

[kiterunner]

I still haven't reread the other thread, but I searched it for the word Pinner and nothing came up, so I assume this isn't posted on there (from TNA Catalogue):

Reference: C 11/106/23
Description:
Short title: Hill v Hill.
Document type: bill, plea and answer.

Plaintiffs: Christopher Hill butcher and grasier of Harefield, Middlesex, Elizabeth Hill widow and executrix of John Hill deceased, Joseph Hill butcher of Pinner, Middlesex, William Wyatt butcher of Uxbridge, Middlesex and Jane Wyatt his wife, Robert Trenley yeoman of Harefield and Hannah Trenley his wife and Richard Hill yeoman of Harefield (said Christopher, Elizabeth, Joseph, Jane, Hannah and Richard were six of the children of John Hill butcher and farmer deceased late of Harefield).

Defendants: Benjamin Hill, Thomas Hill and Henry Hill.
Date of bill (or first document): 1733.
Date of last document: 1734
Note: The naming of a party does not imply that he or she will appear in all the documents in this cause (after the bill)
Date: 1734
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Language: English
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description

Is Hannah the same person as Jane who you mentioned in your first post, or is this a different generation?

[kiterunner]

The will of Elizabeth Hill, widow of Christopher Hill, names some children of the other Hill brothers. I'll only mention the males as William would likely be a descendant of one of them if he is related, but here is the link to the will, signed 5th Aug 1748 and proved 11 Oct 1748:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5111/40611_311634-00328/555361?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dCzj8575%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dcanturburyprero gativecourt%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss% 3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsln%3dhil l%26gsln_x%3d1%26gskw%3dharef*ld%26gskw_x%3d1%26cp xt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26M SV%3d1%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=40611_31163 4-00328
Joseph, son of Richard
Thomas, son of Joseph late of Pinner
John and Henry, sons of John late of Arnham

[kiterunner]

This is the will of Thomas Hill of Pinner, proved 1797, but he doesn't seem to have had a son William:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5111/40611_309842-00053/459502?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dCanturburyPrerogativeCourt%26 gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvC B%3d1%26gsln%3dhill%26gsln_x%3d1%26gskw%3dpinner%2 6gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26MSV%3d1%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=40611_30984 2-00053

[vita]

Thanks so much Merry & Kite - apologies for any confusion.

Robert Trenley died in 1742 so its most probably him, but I don't know who Hannah is.

unless he married twice. His mother was Hannah, though.

[Merry]

Robert Trenley yeoman of Harefield and Hannah Trenley his wife

Is Hannah the same person as Jane who you mentioned in your first post, or is this a different generation?


We need to know when Jane Hill/Trenley died. The Robert who was married to Hannah had children with her, bap at Harefield, in 1721-1727 (Ancestry - London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812)

Hannah Trenley, widow, of Harefield, Middlesex, wrote a will proved 27 Jul 1765.

[Merry]

Robert Trenley died in 1742 so its most probably him, but I don't know who Hannah is.

unless he married twice. His mother was Hannah, though.

There is also a Robert Trenley who died in about 1724 in Isleworth, will proved 8 Oct 1824, and whose widow was named Jane.

[Merry]

Oh, I didn't realise when you said Robert Trenley (the one Ranwell is descended from) died in 1742, that he died in Harefield!!

[kiterunner]

There is some info on one of the other threads:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=340086&postcount=15

Says that Robert was buried 4 Oct 1741 Harefield, age 55, and that his wife Jane was a daughter of John Hill who died 1699 and whose widow died 1732, and mentions that case listed on TNA.

Which would suggest that the TNA listing has Jane and Hannah the wrong way round, except that Merry says in post #14 that there are some children of Robert and Hannah baptised at Harefield.

Also, rereading that TNA entry, it looks as though John Hill had a daughter Elizabeth who married a John Hill. Very confusing!

[kiterunner]

Vita, would you be able to post the rest of the details that you have of your Robert Trenley and Jane Hill, please, such as when they married and who their children were? Could it be that your Robert's wife was Hannah and not Jane?

[Merry]

Ranwell said of Robert and Jane:

They had only 3 surviving daughters so the name dies with them.

but Robert and Hannah had three daughters, though one did die as a young child, so almost fits!

[Merry]

(said Christopher, Elizabeth, Joseph, Jane, Hannah and Richard were six of the children of John Hill butcher and farmer deceased late of Harefield).

baps at Harefield - children of John and Jane Hill, from FMP:

John 1671
Elizabeth 1673 m John Hill
Christopher 1675
Hannah 1676 m Robert Trenley?
Joseph 1677
Henry 1678
Benjamin 1680
Mary 1681 d 1681
Mary 1682
Jane 1683 m William Wyatt?
Richard 1689

There's a marriage at Fulmer Bucks (5 miles away from Harefield) in 1710 for Elizabeth Hill and John Hill (FMP England Marriages 1538-1973 Transcription)

Also on FMP there's a Faculty Office Marriage Licence for William Wyatt and Jane Hill, but the date is quite late - 1722 No place, or any other info, given.

[vita]

I hadn't done any research on Robert, I'm afraid. All I know is that he was b 1686, the

younger son of Hannah (nee Redman, later Moxley) & John Trenley. His siblings were

Edward & Martha. He gets a shilling in his mother's will as she thinks both he & his

sister have had a fair share of her 'competent fortune' already. He is also mentioned

in business dealings along with the rest of the family.

If his wife was Hannah Hill b 1676 she would have been 10 years older than him - don't

know if that would have been unusual for the time?

I wonder who Robert Trenley of Isleworth is? And the Cripplegate/Trenley connection

keeps cropping up as far back as the early 1600s.

[Merry]

Didn't Ranwell give you any info about his/her line?

I agree that if your RT married a Hannah rather than a Jane, the baps of the children I found are really too late to be the children of the Hannah Hill already mentioned.

[vita]

Didn't Ranwell give you any info about his/her line?

I agree that if your RT married a Hannah rather than a Jane, the baps of the children I found are really too late to be the children of the Hannah Hill already mentioned.

No, Merry - Ranwell didn't get in touch again after my offer to PM me.

[kiterunner]

Ranwell said of Robert and Jane:



but Robert and Hannah had three daughters, though one did die as a young child, so almost fits!

The Hannah Trenley will proved 27 Jul 1765 (Hannah Trenley of Harefield, widow) names three daughters: Jane Jones, Hannah Atkins, and Elizabeth Robinson (wife of John Robinson). It was written on the 17th Mar 1759. One of the witnesses is a John Hill. Hannah Trunley, widow, was buried 22 Jan 1765, but the burial record doesn't show her age.

[Merry]

The baps for children of Robert and Hannah Trenley were

John 1718
Jane 1719
Hannah 1721
Elizabeth 1724
Mary 1727 (bur 1728)

(I can't have searched for Tr?nl*y before, as John and Jane had a U for the first vowel and I didn't see them last time I searched!!)

[kiterunner]

These are the children of Robert and Hannah baptised at Harefield:

John Trunley bap 12 May 1718
Jane Trunley bap 3 May 1719
Hannah Trenley bap 28 Apr 1721
Elizabeth Trenley bap 27 Mar 1724
Mary Trenley bap 5 Apr 1727, bur 29 Mar 1728.


Edit - sorry, Merry. I had typed this and then not posted it!

[kiterunner]

And there is a Hanah Hill, daughter of John, baptised at Harefield 25 Jun 1686. This could be the Hannah who married Robert Trenley. She then fits in between Jane and Richard in the sequence of John's children, which fits with the order in which they are mentioned in that TNA case.

[Merry]

And there is a Hanah Hill, daughter of John, baptised at Harefield 25 Jun 1686. This could be the Hannah who married Robert Trenley. She then fits in between Jane and Richard in the sequence of John's children, which fits with the order in which they are mentioned in that TNA case.

Oh that's better. Presumably the older Hannah died.

[kiterunner]

It looks as though some of the Harefield burials around that time are missing from ancestry.

[vita]

Thanks again Merry & Kite - I would probably never have come up with what you two

have found.

I notice Robert would have been about 32 when his first child was baptised in 1718 which

made me wonder again if Hannah was his second wife. Ranwell seemed to be fairly

sure about wife being Jane, but suppose its possible he could be mistaken.

[kiterunner]

We don't know whether John was Robert and Hannah's first child, though, Vita, just the first one whose baptism we have found. We haven't found a date for Robert and Hannah's marriage as far as I know.

[vita]

Thanks, Kite - no, we haven't. I tend to think there's another wife - and possibly family

- hidden away somewhere.