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Hi , I want to trace ancestors of my great grandfather , William Eccleston born approx 1822 in st Helens , maybe the district of Sutton . I have traced forwards from 1870 but need to find ancestors going back . Any help would be gratefully received. Thanks
kiterunner
20-10-17, 10:32
Did he marry? And if so, have you got a copy of his marriage certificate?
Hi , yes I think he married a Mary Leicester , her fathers name George . I haven't got the marriage certificate .
Hi , he was married to Mary Lester at Prescot in 1846 , is father was Thomas this may help
So it's this couple in 1851:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/LANHO107_2195_2195-0988?pid=13084959&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DJgY396%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource %26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1851%26gs s%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26 gsfn%3Dellen%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Deccleston%26gsl n_x%3D1%26msbdy%3D1849%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D1%2 6gskw%3Dprescot%26gskw_x%3D1%26cpxt%3D1%26cp%3D11% 26catbucket%3Drstp%26MSAV%3D2%26MSV%3D1%26uidh%3D6 72%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D0%26h%3D13084959%26recoff%3D 7%25208%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=JgY396&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
and 1861:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/LANRG9_2752_2754-0219/23306926?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
For birthplace William says Windle (part of St Helens) in 1851 and St Helens in 1861.
kiterunner
20-10-17, 16:01
This is his marriage certificate on ancestry, and his father was Thomas Eccleston, collier:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2576/4006758_00281/45789174?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dCtf4618%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dlacanshireparis hmarriage%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3d angs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dwil*%26g sfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3decc*%26gsln_x%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d 1%26msgdy%3d1846%26msgdy_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d1 1%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5%26MSV %3d1&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Baptism (from Ancestry PR image) St Helens Prescot
17 Nov 1822 William son of Thomas and Mary Eccleston of Hardshaigh collier born 5 Nov 1822
Possible siblings:
John Eccleston bap 7 Nov 1825
Mary Eccleston bap 27 Jul 1828
Thomas Eccleston bap 19 Jun 1831
Alice Eccleston bap 12 Oct 1834
kiterunner
20-10-17, 16:04
Lancashire OPC has the baptism of a William Eccleston 17 Nov 1822 at St Helen (formerly St Mary), St Helen's. Son of Thomas & Mary, abode Hardshaigh, father's occupation collier. Hardshaigh seems to be a variation of Hardshaw, which was in Windle township, so it seems to fit.
Edit - I see Merry got there first!
Here's Mary (35) at Gin Lane, Eccleston with
John 15
Mary 13
Alice 6
James 2
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8978/LANHO107_516_517-0098/3568061?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
James birth reg isn't very helpful!
ECCLESTON, JAMES mmn ....TON
GRO Reference: 1838 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 20 Page 646
(that's assuming it's the correct reg)
1851:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/LANHO107_2195_2195-0014/13068467?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
Hi , Can we trace Thomas father , I think he married a Mary Maryland in rainford , but can't see a fathers name mentioned .
Hi , Have we any idea who Thomas married there is a marriage in Prescot around 1847 to a Ann Easton , but there is also a marriage to a Mary Maryland in Rainford These places were not far from St. Helens . Thanks
I would buy the 1838 birth cert for James to see if it's the right father and if it is, what the mother's maiden name actually says. Unfortunately the mmn is not given on Lancs BMD:
www.ukbmdcertificateordering.co.uk/certapp.php?type=births&data=ECCLESTON%7CJames%7CSt+Helens%7CSt+Helens%7C1 838%7C1838%7C%7CSH%3ASH%2F2%2F56%7CE%7C10864%7Clan cashire%7CSH%7C&lang=
Hi , do we know where Thomas was born and who he married ?
No. To find out who he married you need to start with the birth certificate for James and hope it is for the right couple's child. If it is, then hopefully you will be able to read the mother's maiden name and also any previous married surnames she had, which may help with finding her marriage to Thomas.
I would suggest you purchase the certificate from Lancs BMD as you may have a better chance of reading the certificate than from the GRO copy.
At the moment we have no way of knowing how old Thomas was or where he came from or when and where he died, so finding out more about him may be tricky.
Hi , Can we trace Thomas father , I think he married a Mary Maryland in rainford , but can't see a fathers name mentioned .
In general, marriage records from before civil registration don't give further family information such as father's name and occupation.
It could turn out this is the right marriage if that birth certificate is not for the right James or the mmn has been completely mis-read at the GRO. I note that Lancs OPC version of the same marriage (below) had the bride as Mary Markland not Maryland!
Marriage: 26 Aug 1822 All Saints, Rainford, Lancashire, England
Thomas Eccleston - (X), Collier, Bachelor, Of this Parish
Mary Markland - (X), Spinster, Of this Parish
Witness: Margaret Knowles, (X); John Knowles, (X)
Married by Banns by: William Ellam Minister
Register: Marriages 1813 - 1831, Page 80, Entry 239
Source: LDS Film 1657567
EDIT: here's the image:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2576/4389697_01565/5508608?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dJgY1007%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dlacanshireparis hmarriage%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3d angs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3dtho*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dec*ston*%26gsln_ x%3d1%26msgdy%3d1830%26msgdy_x%3d1%26msgdp%3d10%26 mssng%3dmary%26mssng_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26 catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26MSV%3d1%26uidh%3d672&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
I wasn't sure why you were asking about the 1847 marriage to Ann Easton? (btw, her name was Eaton not Easton on the marriage and Heaton on the births of subsequent children, in case you are looking for it again).
On the 1851 census (post #11) Mary says she was born at Windle (St Helens) in about 1800/01. She says St Helens in 1861 and 1871. I have looked for baptisms for a Mary Markland (and variant spellings) from 1795-1805 but found nothing in the right area (you could check Lancs OPC to see if there were any gaps in the register though). Another reason you should investigate that 1838 birth certificate!
Hi , have we any idea where George Leicester was born , Mary Lester's Father ? Thanks .As I cannot establish the Ecclestons from 1870 as William Eccleston ' s mother was unmarried on his birth certificate in 1871 , although she married Henry Burriws not long after so I cannot safely follow that line . Thanks
kiterunner
29-07-18, 10:27
On Mary Lester's marriage cert 29 Aug 1846 she is a spinster, full age, abode Windle, father George Lester collier. Witnesses William Naylor and Elizabeth Booth.
And on the 1851 census Mary is age 26, born Sutton Lancashire.
So this could be her family in 1841:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8978/LANHO107_516_517-0618/3585391?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
Sutton Park, St Helens, Prescot, Lancashire
George Leicester 45 Coal Miner Y
Elizabeth Do 40 Y
Children: Joseph 18, Mary 15, Bettsey 14, Ann 11, George 9, Elen 2 months.
So we want to find this family in 1851 to see George's birthplace.
As I cannot establish the Ecclestons from 1870 as William Eccleston ' s mother was unmarried on his birth certificate in 1871 , although she married Henry Burriws not long after so I cannot safely follow that line . Thanks
You need to re-read this thread;
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=23751&highlight=william+eccleston+1870
kiterunner
29-07-18, 10:54
Here are the Lesters in 1851:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/LANHO107_2195_2195-0989/13084964?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Water Street, Windle, Lancashire
George Lester Head Mar 56 Coal Miner Windle Lancashire Deaf
Elizabeth Do Wife Mar 50 Sutton Do
Joseph Do Son U 27 Coal Miner Windle Do
Ann Do Daur U 21 Confectioner Sutton Do
John King Visitor U 23 Glass Cutter Eccleston Do
Elizabeth Dagnall Servant U 15 House Servant Rainhill Do.
kiterunner
29-07-18, 11:01
Ellen Lester's birth was registered Apr-Jun 1841 Prescot district, and the online GRO index gives her mother's maiden name as Arrowsmith (it has the surname as Lister, but FreeBMD and Lancashire BMD say Lester, so I think it is a transcription error on the GRO site).
Elizabeth could be a second wife for George given the gap between children on the 1841 census. I haven't managed to find George and Elizabeth's marriage yet.
kiterunner
29-07-18, 11:03
Ellen Lester died in 1844 age 3, by the way.
kiterunner
29-07-18, 11:07
Oh, okay, found the marriage on Lancs OPC and Elizabeth wasn't a second wife:
3 Jan 1820 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot: George Leicester, collier, bachelor, and Elizabeth Arrowsmith, spinster, both of the parish, married by banns, witnesses John Cunliffe and James Harrison.
kiterunner
29-07-18, 11:08
Mary Leicester baptised 21 Aug 1825 St Mary (now St Helen), St Helens, daughter of George and Elizabeth, abode Sutton, father's occupation collier. (Also from Lancs OPC).
Hi , I will now purchase the birth certificate of James Eccleston to hopefully establish the mothers maiden name . I searched Prescot marriages for a James Eccleston , and found him in 1864 , but the names of his father and her father don't seem to be correct I think they have been mixed up which is a shame .
kiterunner
29-07-18, 11:24
When and where was James Eccleston born? We might be able to get his MMN from one of the birth indexes.
And who did he marry?
How can I find George's birth whereabouts. . I've a feeling he may have been born in Cheshire , or Shropshire. As we would visit this house regular around the area , so it's a possibility. But if you have any idea of how I could find this out I would be grateful . Also I am trying to find Thomas Eccleston s parents thanks
When and where was James Eccleston born? We might be able to get his MMN from one of the birth indexes.
And who did he marry?
Is he the one in post 10 of this thread?
How can I find George's birth whereabouts.
Is this a different George to the one in post 24 of this thread?
Yes he is the George Leicester who married Elizabeth Arrowsmith in Prescot . I have searched family search .org ,but there are a lot of George leicesters births around the 1795 ' s .
Could you possibly check if I am correct in my search . William Henry Eccleston born Prescot 1870 father unknown to Mary Eccleston . Father William Eccleston christened 1831 father Isaac Eccleston mother Ellen , Isaac was born approx 1797 in Parr . I haven't found a marriage at present . I can find Isaac on the 1861 living with is son and daughter if this census is correct . Son John Eccleston Isaac is age 64 , I don't know how to make sure I'm following the correct path , any help please
kiterunner
29-07-18, 14:28
How can I find George's birth whereabouts. . I've a feeling he may have been born in Cheshire , or Shropshire. As we would visit this house regular around the area , so it's a possibility. But if you have any idea of how I could find this out I would be grateful .
See post #24 - the 1851 census says he was born at Windle, Lancashire. I haven't found his baptism yet.
kiterunner
29-07-18, 14:30
Is he the one in post 10 of this thread?
Right, yes. Okay, good idea for Qwackers to order that birth cert to see MMN then.
kiterunner
29-07-18, 14:34
Also I am trying to find Thomas Eccleston s parents thanks
That birth cert for James Eccleston should give us the name of Thomas Eccleston's wife so we know which Thomas Eccleston marriage to look for and then hopefully we can find info on Thomas's parents.
kiterunner
29-07-18, 14:41
Could you possibly check if I am correct in my search . William Henry Eccleston born Prescot 1870 father unknown to Mary Eccleston . Father William Eccleston christened 1831 father Isaac Eccleston mother Ellen , Isaac was born approx 1797 in Parr . I haven't found a marriage at present . I can find Isaac on the 1861 living with is son and daughter if this census is correct . Son John Eccleston Isaac is age 64 , I don't know how to make sure I'm following the correct path , any help please
William Henry Eccleston's mother was Elizabeth Eccleston, not Mary. Elizabeth's father was William Eccleston but he is 59 on the 1871 census, so supposedly born about 1811-2. You said in post #4 on this thread that William Eccleston's father was Thomas Eccleston, and that is confirmed in post #6. Isn't that the same Thomas Eccleston who you are trying to trace by ordering James Eccleston's birth certificate?
yes it is I'm trying to get the dates in order and hopefully will order that certificate tomoro thanks
kiterunner
29-07-18, 17:48
Baptism at St Helens 6 Mar 1796: George son of James Laysetter, collier, Windle, born Febr 28. (From FMP)
Hi , I received Thomas birth certificate yesterday , but I am struggling to read the mothers maiden name as it is italics and you know how sometimes it's difficult to get to see each letter clearly it looks like the first part of the name is mark , but it looks like the last three letters are ton , it looks like markclton but it's so difficult , I don't know what I can do now as really I will have to go on trying to guess . Unless you suggest another alternative .thanks
Could the name be markelton ? Thanks
Can you give all the rest of the details of the cert you have purchased? I don't know which Thomas you mean.
I thought you were getting the birth cert mentioned in post 10 of this thread, but the first name is James, not Thomas!:
ECCLESTON, JAMES mmn ....TON
GRO Reference: 1838 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 20 Page 646
Also see post #19 for potential parents.
If you want someone to look at the writing you need to post a section of the certificate here. Not the whole thing, for copyright reasons.
Sorry merry , it is the birth certificate of James Eccleston as mentioned in previous post birth 1838 Prescot district St. Helens . I think the name of his mother is markelton . There seems to be a few people of that name in Prescot and Wigan . But I am going to speak to the registration office on Monday to see if I can verify the name . Thanks
ElizabethHerts
08-09-18, 08:50
You could scan the certificate and send it to one of us here to have a look.
The more I look at the name it does look like markelton . If this helps any in finding a marriage between Thomas and Mary .
It may not be in Prescot , it could be anywhere around St. Helens Wigan etc .
kiterunner
08-09-18, 08:54
There is a Thomas Eccleston / Mary Markland marriage on Lancs OPC 26 Aug 1822 All Saints, Rainford. Thomas is a collier and a bachelor, Mary a spinster, both of the parish. Witnesses Margaret Knowles and John Knowles. They all marked an X for their names, so if Mary's surname was written down wrongly, she wouldn't have been able to read it to notice.
Edit - reading back through this thread, I see this marriage has been mentioned a few times already. This is the link to the image on ancestry:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2576/4389697_01565/5508608?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dJgY1007%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dlacanshireparis hmarriage%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3d angs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3dtho*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dec*ston*%26gsln_ x%3d1%26msgdy%3d1830%26msgdy_x%3d1%26msgdp%3d10%26 mssng%3dmary%26mssng_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26 catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26MSV%3d1%26uidh%3d672&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
kiterunner
08-09-18, 12:55
By the way, Findmypast currently has a free access long weekend, which lasts through Monday, so you can view the St Helens PRs and / or BTs on there. Some of the baptism pages around 1801 (when Mary was born) are quite hard to make out, so you may want to browse through them to see if you can spot possible entries.
kiterunner
08-09-18, 19:09
Not sure whether anyone has already looked into those witnesses - John and Margaret Knowles - but John Knowles married Margaret Eccleston 2 Mar 1819 at Prescot. So if Margaret is the sister of your Thomas Eccleston, it would confirm that the Mary Markland marriage is the right one. I can't remember offhand if we have traced your Thomas Eccleston back at all; will have to reread this thread.
This seems to be John and Margaret Knowles in 1851:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/LANHO107_2195_2195-1425/13092626?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/48800727/person/20160106048/facts
I checked the registrations of the last three children, mmn Eccleston.
Thank you Merry your a genius
Not really, as we still haven't connected them!
Yes I understand , we still don't know for definite .
I've checked the parish clerk in Prescot for Margeret with no luck , so we now have to make the connection now .
kiterunner
13-09-18, 06:46
Sorry merry , it is the birth certificate of James Eccleston as mentioned in previous post birth 1838 Prescot district St. Helens . I think the name of his mother is markelton . There seems to be a few people of that name in Prescot and Wigan . But I am going to speak to the registration office on Monday to see if I can verify the name . Thanks
Did you ever do this, and if so, what did they say?
Hi , yes as I said in a previous post I obtained the birth certificate for James , but the mmn for mother was very difficult to read , i asked the registration services and they were supposed to get back to me ,but as yet no news
kiterunner
13-09-18, 18:44
Let us know if and when they get back to you, Qwackers.
Hi , I'm sure the name reads markleton. So if they say this is the case , we come to a halt , unless we can establish that the Mary markland and not markleton whom married Thomas Eccleston in rainford in some of the previous posts is the same person . The only other way is establish perhaps as you said find the link between Margeret Eccleston and James . I have checked the parish clerks but haven't come up with anything .
What do you know already about your Thomas Eccleston?
Also, who registered the birth of James Eccleston?
garstonite
15-09-18, 07:13
I am not that far from this area - could that surname be Marcelton ? with a c ...quite a few of that surname in the area - if you look on Lan-opc for Marcelton you get about 6 as Markleton - the rest are Marcelton
Hi , yes it could be as the name is italics . Does that help ? Thanks
I'm afraid it looks like Mark for the first four letters and not a c . But like it has been said before , these people could not read and write , and could have given a name similar and it was written has it was spoken . I will still try to pusure the register office as maybe it is printed somewhere .
I guess you must have just looked at the certificate then! Please could you tell us who registered the birth.
Also, did you purchase the copy certificate from the local register office or the GRO?
Hi , it looks like Mary Eccleston registered the birth , and their address was in dukes st St. Helens .
Father Thomas Eccleston. Collier .
I rang the GRO I have the page ,vol etc ,and I gave them the info .
You need to contact the local office. They are the ones with the original cert (the GRO one is a copy).
Here's the entry at Lancs BMD:
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
ECCLESTON James ………………………………………… St Helens.....St Helens....SH/2/56
So this tells us the original certificate is held at St Helens Register Office:
The Register Office, Central Street, St Helens WA10 1UJ
01744 676789
[email protected]
Contact them and tell them you have purchased a copy of the certificate from the GRO, but that there's a part of it you cannot be sure of. If you give them all the details (maybe you would have to email them a copy of the GRO cert?) they will hopefully help you by taking a look at the original certificate.
kiterunner
15-09-18, 23:01
Or as has been suggested, you can email a copy of it to one of us - or to the site email address if you want - or post up an image of just the part of the image with the name on.
Olde Crone
16-09-18, 07:24
Forgive me if I have missed the point, but surely Mary's maiden name was Markland?
OC
OC - There is a Thomas Eccleston to Mary Markland marriage on Lancs OPC 26 Aug 1822 All Saints, Rainford, which we think is probably the right marriage for Qwackers' ancestors. However, the birth certificate of their youngest child (James b 1838) appears to say Markleton for the mmn on the GRO copy (the writing must be poor as the GRO were unable to transcribe the name successfully for their 'new' index).
Qwackers, did Mary sign or mark the birth cert?
Olde Crone
16-09-18, 08:30
Well it isn't a million miles from Markland to Markleton, is it! I would be surprised if it was a different person/ name.
OC
Mary just made her mark ,
I will try to speak to the registration services.
Hi , if they say they can't help do we believe that Mary markland is the same person and James mother ? Thanks
kiterunner
19-09-18, 10:52
I still think it would be a good idea for you to post up an image of the name from the certificate, or email it to one of us, Qwackers.
I still think it would be a good idea for you to post up an image of the name from the certificate, or email it to one of us, Qwackers.
I agree.
I am going to speak to Kirkby ancestry department on thurs ,they have told me to speak to a person who deals with the micro fiche at the library . I think they store a lot of the records on film for the district we need . I would post the name but I don't know how to do it on this site . Hopefully will get the info required or if not may have to visit the library . Thanks
But the library isn't going to have the birth certificate is it?
Did you contact the register office at St Helens? (post #69)
I know I have the birth certificate , i thought I may be able to read the mothers maiden name of Thomas if it is just written in ordinary writing and Kirkby library hold a lot of info for Prescot etc But I will ring up today as I have been away in Scotland . Will let you know how I go on . if you would like I could email you the name as I don't know how to copy and paste on this site . Let me know .thanks you may beable to glean more info on the name than me . I'm sure it doesn't read markland .
Qwackers- I will send you a personal message.
Hi the gentleman that runs a help desk at the library , is looking at the family Eccleston , in the area .to make sure that we are following the correct person . As he has said that that name is very common to the St. Helens Prescot area . When I get any info will let you know . They hold a lot of info for Prescot Knowsley and St. Helens . Thanks
to make sure that we are following the correct person
Which person is he investigating?
He said he would have to go forward to make sure that we are following the right person although I have told him that we had done work on that area as I looked back at the line from my grandfather William Henry Eccleston .
Qwackers has send me images of the GRO copy of the certificate. I don't really understand why the GRO index didn't include the full MMN as it's pretty clear to me:
Registration District Prescot
Sub District St Helens in the County of Lancaster
No.: 277
When and where born: First September 1838 at St Helens
Name, if any: James
Sex: Boy
Name and surname of father: Thomas Eccleston
Name, surname and maiden surname of mother: Mary Eccleston formerly Markelton
Occupation of father: Collier
Signature, description and residence of informant: The mark of X Mary Eccleston Mother Dukes Court Duke Street St Helens
When registered: Twenty-eighth September 1838
Signature of Registrar: W Brunskill Registrar
So, the mmn is Markelton on this cert, but I still don't think we can exclude the marriage of Mary Markland to Thomas Eccleston. Both names are equally commonplace in the area, as far as I can see, so very easy for one name to have been written for the other, especially when allowing for Mary's apparent illiteracy.
Hi , that's the name that I thought it was. So do you think that Mary markland marriage to Thomas could be the same person . Thanks
Oakum Picker
02-10-18, 07:37
On the birth certs of my g-gm's 12 children 1 had the correct mmn CANNELL, 10 had CANHAM & 1 CABBURN so I think it's a high probability.
I found a Ellen markelton born 1827 in St. Helens could it be our Mary markelton ?
But she married in 1822!!
There is a baptism at St Helen's Independent Church 28 Nov 1804 (image on FMP) for a Mary Martland (that spelling) dau of Wm and Mary. This child's date of birth is given as 10 Nov 1804 which would mean, if she is your Mary, she was only 17 when she married in Aug 1822, but there is no mention of her being a minor at the marriage.
The Ellen Marcleton you mentioned in post #91 was buried 7 Oct 1827 aged 4 months.
Something interesting turned up , Thomas and Mary had banns read in Prescot , but only got married 21 months later in Rainford . Also if the Mary had the name markelton she didn't have any other children . I'm pursuing the fact that the name could have been transcribed incorrectly . From Markland to that name . I have asked Prescot register office to check the name on the original copy to make sure .
Also if the Mary had the name markelton she didn't have any other children .
I don't understand how you can think that? Isn't her eldest son William your ancestor, yet her youngest child James is the one you have the birth cert for? So that's an absolute minimum of two children. See posts #7 and #8 for the baps of five children, plus James makes 6, minimum.
Hi. ,Merry what rob is saying at Kirkby ,that he cannot find any other children with mmn as markelton . So he thinks the name either as been misheard or spelled incorrectly . The register is going to look at the original for me to check the name .
Olde Crone
17-10-18, 18:08
Unless I've missed the point again, there was only one child born within the registration years, i.e. after 1837. All the others as listed by Merry were born before registration, so it's pointless the registrar looking for them, they aren't there. Their BAPTISM S are recorded in Church records which rarely show the mother's maiden name.
OC
I agree with OC - all the other children were born before civil registration began.
I have asked Prescot register office to check the name on the original copy to make sure .
Erm, there's isn't a register office at Prescot anymore though. The old Prescot registers are split between St. Helens, Knowsley, Liverpool and Halton register offices. Lancs BMD suggests the birth certificates for Prescot for Q3 1838 are held at St Helens.
The Register Office, Central Street, St Helens WA10 1UJ
01744 676789
[email protected]
I don't understand the ref to Kirkby?
Some of the micro fiche for the Prescot area are held at Kirkby Library . And I have been given a lot of help from there . The Prescot register office has forwarded my question to the relevant office in St. Helens . I know what your saying with regards to other children . But I need to check if Mary markelton is actually Markland . There is a suggestion that they may not have been able to read the original writing on the certificate . Therefore they cannot be 100% sure with regards to the name .
I have had word back from St. Helens registrars and they say the name is as it was put on the copy , but they also said it was the first time for written births so there may have been anomalies as the mother couldn't read or write . .
Hi , I was wondering if we can now trace Thomas Eccleston . I've done some searching and have found possible father for him .i found a baptism in 12 th of Jan 1823 at St. Helen's formerly st Mary's in parr father Isaac ,mother Mary . Could this be his parents ? Thanks
kiterunner
09-03-19, 10:42
Didn't Thomas get married in 1822? So unlikely that he was baptised in 1823. I can't remember offhand what census info there is about him; will have to read back through this thread.
Didn't Thomas get married in 1822? So unlikely that he was baptised in 1823.
Exactly! He married Mary Markleton/Markland.
This is James Eccleston, son of Thomas, on the 1851 census. James' mother, Mary (Markelton/Markland), is a widow on this census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/LANHO107_2195_2195-0014?pid=13068467&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DgAP5110%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1851%26g sfn%3Djames%26gsln%3Deccleston%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln _x%3D1%26cp%3D11%26msbdy%3D1838%26msbdy_x%3D1%26ms bdp%3D2%26qh%3DCZk8uI2eBtK1/fwibbarXw%253D%253D%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26redir%3 Dfalse%26uidh%3D672%26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D5%26h%3D13068467%26recoff%3D% 26ml_rpos%3D6&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gAP5110&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
I think this is the 1841 census for the same family:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8978/LANHO107_516_517-0098?pid=3568063&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DgAP5121%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1841%26g sfn%3Djames%26gsln%3Deccleston%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln _x%3D1%26cp%3D11%26msbdy%3D1839%26msbdy_x%3D1%26ms bdp%3D1%26qh%3DDjRupf2vwEttZvVrF2SWhQ%253D%253D%26 new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26redir%3Dfalse%26uidh%3D672%26 gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D1%26h%3D3568063%26recoff%3D%2 6ml_rpos%3D2&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gAP5121&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
No Thomas senr there either.
I can't see a likely death for Thomas between 1837 and 1841, but there is this one:
ECCLESTON, THOMAS
aged 48
GRO Reference: 1847 S Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 20 Page 1097
I looked for a possible match on the 1841 census and there is this man (below) in a lodging house (bottom of right page) who could be your Thomas, but of course might not be!
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8978/LANHO107_516_517-0269?pid=3573983&backurl=https://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DgAP5123%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1841%26g sfn%3Dtho*%26gsln%3Deccleston%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln_ x%3D1%26cp%3D11%26msbdy%3D1801%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msb dp%3D5%26qh%3DnayNiSZI%252Bed8ewiUE8s4zA%253D%253D %26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26redir%3Dfalse%26uidh%3D672 %26gss%3Dangs-d%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D5%26h%3D3573983%26recoff%3D%2 6ml_rpos%3D6&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=gAP5123&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
You perhaps should consider buying the 1847 death certificate to see who registered the death of that Thomas Eccleston.
Here is the burial for the man who died in 1847.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2577/32883_276537-00558/9776729?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dlacanshireparishdeath%26gsfn% 3dthomas%26gsln%3deccleston%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln_x% 3d1%26cp%3d11%26msddy%3d1847%26msddy_x%3d1%26qh%3d pu6iWYZZ4fQ716SN0u8AkQ%253d%253d%26hc%3d50%26new%3 d1%26rank%3d1%26redir%3dfalse%26uidh%3d672&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
kiterunner
09-03-19, 16:18
There is a Thomas Eccleston born 31 Dec 1798 and baptised 20 Jan 1799 at Prescot, St Helens, son of John Eccleston, collier, of Parr:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2478/32883_276531-00250?pid=9543989&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx7909&_phstart=successSource
And a public tree on ancestry which has that Thomas as the one who married Mary Markland:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/117852236/person/182015198263/facts?_phsrc=dNx7910&_phstart=successSource
Not sure whether anyone has already looked into those witnesses - John and Margaret Knowles - but John Knowles married Margaret Eccleston 2 Mar 1819 at Prescot. So if Margaret is the sister of your Thomas Eccleston, it would confirm that the Mary Markland marriage is the right one.
The above Margaret Knowles, née Eccleston was a witness to the marriage of Thomas Eccleston in 1822.
We looked for a baptism for her, hoping she might be Thomas Eccleston's sister, but didn't find anything.
I had another look and found this baptism:
Margret Ecleson Baptism 30 Jan 1803 Burtonwood parents Isaac, labourer, and Betty Abode Parr
There is a tree on Ancestry that has these details for Isaac:
ISAAC ECCLESTONE
1767–1837
Birth ABT 1767 • Ashton in Makerfield
Death 9 FEB 1837 • St Helens, Lancashire
and Isaac's parents:
ISAAC ECCLESTONE
1743–1793
Birth ABT 1743 • Newton le Willows
Death MAY 1793 • St Helens, Lancashire
ANN NAYLOR
1743–1778
Birth 23 NOV 1743 • Winwick
Death 17 APR 1778
They have several children for Isaac snr and Ann, including :
John Ecclestone
1764–1837
Birth ABT 1764 • Winwick
Death 9 FEB 1837 • St Helens, Lancashire, England
And this is the John Eccleston I thought was the father of your Thomas Eccleston (from the baptism kiterunner posted above).
So, if that is correct (if!!) Margaret Knowles/Eccleston and Thomas Eccleston were first cousins.
Hi , thanks for all your work ,but I'm afraid I'm not a member of Ancestry . I use family search ,and online parish clerks . So when you give me a link I can't see them ,but thanks anyway But I will do some more work . See what I can discover .
All the links posted since you made your last request are for entries available as transcriptions on FS or Lancs OPC except for kiterunner's one link to the Ancestry tree in post #105.
Some of the links are to records already transcribed earlier in the thread, so you could try the 'Search this Thread' tool as well.
EDIT - have you used the 14 day free trial at Ancestry?
Hi , I found the marriage of Isaac and Ann in winwick 1763
sorry the question marks should have been emojis ????just one more thing I want to trace Mary Markland (markleton 's ) line but am I searching for either as I'm unsure now who she is ? Any help in trying to trace her would be great , I did check the rainford online , but can't find either person by those names . But she could come from any area surrounding rainford rainford is small in relation to other towns it's in between a lot of bigger places . ?
Qwackers, it would be really helpful if, when you make a request for help, you tell us what you already know about the person! It would just save either having to look everything up again or having to search back to see what we have already found.
In this case you could tell us the age she was reported as when she died, and her age and place of birth on all the census records you have her on and who the witnesses were at her marriage, as those are the things that will help others the most with what you want to know.
So.…
Age at death is 72 in Q4 1871.
1871 census: 70 b St Helens
1861 census: 59 b St Helens
1851 census: 50 b Windle
1841 census: 35 b Lancashire
Marriage witnesses (I didn't have to look these up lol) are her husband's relatives, so probably not relevant in this case - John and Margaret Knowles.
I'm sure we have looked for her baptism already......
There is a baptism at St Helen's Independent Church 28 Nov 1804 (image on FMP) for a Mary Martland (that spelling) dau of Wm and Mary. This child's date of birth is given as 10 Nov 1804 which would mean, if she is your Mary, she was only 17 when she married in Aug 1822, but there is no mention of her being a minor at the marriage.
I thought I'd already looked....This is what I found last time. Not to say it's the right person though.
Yes merry , the post are only a couple of pages back I assume that you can see them . I run ahead of myself sometimes So sorry , about that as really I should put all threads together that are relative to each other . But I don't know how to do that at the moment . Thomas and Margeret obviously are not from her tree . So I have to find where she was born ,for sure if the 1841 census says lancashire ,it doesn't help as lancs is a big area .
Thomas and Margeret obviously are not from her tree .
Do you mean John and Margaret?
No, they are not from her tree, but it would be helpful to remind us of that when you are asking for us to find a person's baptism record. Often marriage witnesses can provide a clue.
So I have to find where she was born ,for sure if the 1841 census says lancashire ,it doesn't help as lancs is a big area .
But what if the 1841 census had said No (ie not born in Lancashire) - that would be a red flag for someone helping. If you don't tell us, then we have to go and look to find out.
Anyway, I'm fairly doubtful the 1804 baptism is for the right person. I have been trying to trace that Mary forward to see if I can eliminate her, without much (any!) success as yet!
Also her name could be markelton ,we may have to search for that name also . As that's what her name looked like on the wedding certificate .
I searched Ma*d and Ma*n.
I have searched lots of places to no avail , maybe she is going to be elusive Lol.
Hi , what site did you find the birth of john ecclestone ? Thanks
Do you mean this one?:
John Ecclestone
1764–1837
Birth ABT 1764 • Winwick
Death 9 FEB 1837 • St Helens, Lancashire, England
I didn't post a birth or baptism for him. As I said in post #106, this info is from an Ancestry tree and they haven't included a baptism for him either.
I did see the burial for this John on 9 Feb 1837 aged 73 and wondered if he was the father of your Thomas Eccleston.
(I'm just putting a link to that tree here as Ancestry wouldn't let me re-find it this morning, so I had to look back through my history to find it!:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/48800727/person/20160106141/facts
Not that we will probably need it again.)
ISAAC ECCLESTONE
1767–1837
Birth ABT 1767 • Ashton in Makerfield
Death 9 FEB 1837 • St Helens, Lancashire
I note the tree owner has the same burial date for Isaac as for John! The date is correct for John, but I think it's likely Isaac died in 1820:
Isaac Eccleston b abt 1767 buried 19 Jan 1820 at Rainford, Lancashire
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