Hannah Castle's husbands

[Phoenix]

Hannah had a complicated life.
She married John Hoadley Scrivenor in Westminster in 1777.
After his death, she married Captain Walter Kettilby Alder 3 Nov 1787:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1623/31280_195085-00158/5697076?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/46912381/person/410146475866/facts/citation/1120334373088/edit/record


and after his death she married Gilbert Alder 7 April 1804:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1623/31280_194672-00384/5691504?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/46912381/person/410146475866/facts/citation/1120334373744
/edit/record

This is her will, though it does not hold clues to my problem:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5111/40611_311075-00081/630471?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/46912381/person/410146475866/facts/citation/1120334373967/edit/record

Which is: how were Walter and Gilbert related?

Walter and his four surviving siblings (Mary, Eliza, Thomas and Luke) were the children of Luke Alder and Elizabeth Kettilby, who married in Ipswich in 1743. Elizabeth's brother Walter, who died in 1770, left a fishery in Ethermouth/Edermouth to be divided between those five children.

Luke was in London by the 1740s, and his children were born in Whitechapel, but there were links with the North East.

There is a Gilbert, bp 1752 in Longframlington, Northumberland, son of William, but he may be a red herring.

Luke was probably bp 1707 in Alwinton, son of Thomas, and apprenticed to a merchant in Alnwick in 1721. But I don't know!!!

[kiterunner]

Well, on the marriage to Hannah, Gilbert is Gilbert Alder Esquire of Low Layton, Essex, and the Durham University Library Special Collections Catalogue includes this, so he must have had North Eastern connections:

Reference: DPRI/1/1831
DPRI/1/1831/A1 12 November 1831
Gilbert ALDER, esquire, of Laytonstone in the county of Essex [Leyton, Essex]
parish uncertain
Registered copy: DPRI/2/42 p17-20
DPRI/1/1831/A1/1-4 5 September 1806
copy will
copy will from the registry of the Prerogative court of Canterbury endorsed with memorandum relating that probate was first granted at London on 17 December 1806

[kiterunner]

Here's Gilbert's will on ancestry (not read it yet):

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5111/40611_311415-00110/173768?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dCanturburyPrerogativeCourt%26 gss%3dsfs28_ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%2 6MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dgilb*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3 dalder%26gsln_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Phoenix]

Gilbert married Martha Mills and had two children: Gilbert b 1800 and Martha b 1799.

I assume that Hannah was much nearer his own age than Martha had been.

[Phoenix]

I get confused by the two Lukes, but I think that senior was an Oil and Colourman, while the younger was a Dry Salter - presumably of the fruit of the fishery.

[kiterunner]

This is Gilbert's burial, 17 Sep 1806 at St Mary Abchurch, London:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1624/31281_a101996-00049/7608011?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
It says he was of Laytonstone. His age is partly hidden in the binding but it looks like 55.

[Phoenix]

This is Walter Kettilby Alder's will:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5111/40611_310978-00334/229596?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/46912381/person/410144727072/facts/citation/1120332604386/edit/record

[Phoenix]

This is Elizabeth Selby nee Alder's will:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5111/40611_311455-00204/366052?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dhQY7244%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dcanturburyprero gativecourt%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dCLP_WILLS%26gss%3dan gs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dEliza%26gsfn_x%3d0 %26gsln%3dSelby%26gsln_x%3d0%26msfng%3dLuke%26msfn s%3dAlder%26msmng%3dElizabeth%26msmns%3dKettilby%2 6msbng%3dLuke%26msbns%3dAlder%26msbng1%3dMary%26ms bns1%3dAlder%26msbng2%3dThomas%26msbns2%3dAlder%26 msbng3%3dWalter%2bKettilly%26msbns3%3dAlder%26msbn g4%3dGilbert%26msbns4%3dAlder%26mssng%3dPrideaux%2 6mssns%3dSelby%26mscng%3dPrideaux%26mscns%3dSelby% 26_83004003-n_xcl%3dm%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d4%26catbucket%3dr%26MS AV%3d1%26uidh%3d9vh%26ssrc%3dpt_t46912381_p4101446 99852&ssrc=pt_t46912381_p410144699852&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[kiterunner]

There's a tree on ancestry which has Gilbert as a son of Luke and Elizabeth:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/14918737/person/230085698178/facts

But needs checking!

[Phoenix]

That's the best and most trustworthy of the trees I've seen, but I refuse to believe that Gilbert was a brother. Everyone should have thrown up their hands in horror at Hannah's third marriage, and the fisheries were clearly so valuable that the children mention their fifth part.

[kiterunner]

Oh, that tree doesn't look very accurate, so given that Gilbert wasn't listed among the children in Walter sr's will, I guess it's wrong.

[kiterunner]

This is Elizabeth sr's will, and no mention of Gilbert, so that tree must have been wrong:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/5111/40611_310951-00400/627732?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dCanturburyPrerogativeCourt%26 gss%3dsfs28_ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%2 6MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3deli*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3d alder%26gsln_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[kiterunner]

Don't know whether you've seen this in TNA's catalogue, Phoenix? Though I suppose it was brought because of Hannah's previous relationship to the other Alders, but it's possible that the documents would explain how Gilbert was related too.

Reference: C 13/487/5
Description: [W1805 A30].
Short title: Alder v Alder.
Document type: Bill only.
Plaintiffs: Luke Alder and another.
Defendants: Gilbert Alder, Hannah Alder, John Sheppard, [unknown] Selby and Elizabeth Selby.
JMP
Note: The naming of a party does not imply that he or she will appear in all the documents in this cause (after the bill)
Date: 1805

[Phoenix]

Ooh, I seem to have missed that will!

Not sure what happened to Mary. She was the wife of Robert Lea.

[Phoenix]

And that TNA ref!! Thanks, Kite!

[AlderFamily]

I know this is a really old thread and you may have worked it all out but thought I would reply.
Gilbert Alder was my 5x great grandfather.
The tree that is on ancestry that everyone seems to copy is very inaccurate.
Gilbert was the son of William Alder and Elizabeth Alder (not related but both from Alder lines)
Walter is Elizabeth Alder’s nephew.
Martha Mills the first wife died in 1801 and is buried in st Mary’s abchurch NOT 1844 as some have got on their tree.
Gilbert did indeed marry Hannah who was the widow of his cousin Walter.
I’m happy to share my tree :)

[Phoenix]

Hi Alderfamily,welcome to the forum!

I got totally tangled with the various Gilberts and Lukes.

I am primarily interested in the Luke Alder who married Elizabeth Kettilby. His grandson Joseph Cheshire married Sarah Cooper, a relation of mine. At the same time, Edward Hughes married Jane AlderIN who might be unrelated. She died in 1830 and was probably born c 1761. Their grandson Edward Lines married another relation.


I have to go out very shortly, but I would be very interested in your tree, and exchanging info once I'm up to speed on the family.

[Phoenix]

Right.

So William Alder had children John, Gilbert and Frances, all baptised in Longframlington, Northumberland in the 1740s and 1750s.

I can't find a will for John, but his widow Mary made a distressingly long will in 1807, proved in 1812. She mentions her sister in law Frances and her son Daniel.

Gilbert's will mentions his sister Frances and his nephew Daniel.

Frances outlived them both. She was buried in 1836, allegedly aged 90, and mentions nephew Daniel in her will.

I assume that any other of William's children died young or without children, or contact with siblings in London?