What happened to Betsy?

[Merry]

I have wasted a lot of time going round in circles with this.

Betsey Jemima Buck reg for Q3 1846 Liverpool

Parents are James Buck (Baptist Minister) and Sarah nee Ashton.

In 1851 and 1861 Bets(e)y is with her parents (in 1851 her age is incorrect):

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db=uki1851&indiv=try&h=12879687

http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc=Alb5750&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true&indiv=1&db=uki1861&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&MS_AdvCB=1&gsfn=bet*&gsfn_x=1&gsln=buck&gsln_x=1&msbdy=1847&msbdy_x=1&msbdp=1&gskw=liverpool&gskw_x=1&cpxt=1&cp=11&catbucket=rstp&MSAV=2&MSV=1&uidh=672&pcat=35&fh=0&h=23254505&recoff=&ml_rpos=1

I spent ages looking for a marriage/death between 1861 and 1871 but found nothing (wasted loads of time checking out all the Elizabeths!). Now I've got to go out, but have just seen that she is a witness to her sister Jessie's wedding in 1883. So, where is she in 1871 and 1881? And what happened to her after that?

[Merry]

Here's her sister's 1883 marriage entry:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2197/englb5617_283-sav-3-2_m_00065/4530122?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dAlb5761%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dliverpoolcoemar riages%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dang s-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3djes sie%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dbuck%26gsln_x%3d1%26msgd y%3d1883%26msgdy_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catb ucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26MSV%3d1%26uidh%3d672&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[kiterunner]

Here she is in 1911, still single (courtesy of a public tree on ancestry, though I see it does also come up near the top of the list of matches on a search without "exact matches" ticked):
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/2352/rg14_00670_0829_03/1743098?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/14521979/person/18942170991/facts

[maggie_4_7]

I assume you have this one.

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&dbid=2352&h=1743098&tid=&pid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=FBb2568&_phstart=successSource

[kiterunner]

Possible death reg from FreeBMD (given that she was down as Bessie in 1911):
Deaths Sep 1925
Buck Bessie J 79 Brentford 3a 185

The GRO site confirms middle name on that one as Jemima.

She is down as "Jessie" on her probate entry but definitely her as I recognise the administrator's middle name from one of those censuses that you linked to:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Calendar#calendar

Edit - oh, but that's weird, they did actually have a sister Jessie, as she is the one in the marriage entry that you posted. But Jessie's middle name wasn't Jemima too? And obviously wouldn't have been a spinster when she died!

[kiterunner]

This could be her in 1881, a governess in Wales:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8059/AGYRG11_5572_5575-0111/7238?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f cgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[kiterunner]

And a governess in 1871 too:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7619/BRKRG10_1294_1297-0056?pid=141931&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DCzj4118%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-g%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gsfn%3Dbessie%2520jemima% 26gsfn_x%3D0%26gsln%3Dbuck%26gsln_x%3D0%26msbdy%3D 1846%26msbpn__ftp%3DLiverpool,%2520Lancashire,%252 0England%26msbpn%3D92187%26msfng%3Djames%26msfns%3 Dbuck%26msmng%3Dsarah%26cp%3D0%26catbucket%3Drstp% 26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3Dvm5%26pcat%3DROOT_CATEGORY%26h %3D141931%26dbid%3D7619%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D5&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Czj4118&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[kiterunner]

1891:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/6598/LNDRG12_109_112-0275?pid=7655907&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DCzj4118%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-g%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gsfn%3Dbessie%2520jemima% 26gsfn_x%3D0%26gsln%3Dbuck%26gsln_x%3D0%26msbdy%3D 1846%26msbpn__ftp%3DLiverpool,%2520Lancashire,%252 0England%26msbpn%3D92187%26msfng%3Djames%26msfns%3 Dbuck%26msmng%3Dsarah%26cp%3D0%26catbucket%3Drstp% 26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3Dvm5%26pcat%3DROOT_CATEGORY%26h %3D7655907%26dbid%3D6598%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D3&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Czj4118&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[kiterunner]

In 1901 (I love ancestry's transcription of relationship to head: "Fiend"! I suppose I'd better put in a correction, though.)
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7814/LNDRG13_115_117-0901?pid=146965&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DCzj4126%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1901%26g ss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26gsfn%3Dbes sie%26gsfn_x%3D1%26msbdy%3D1846%26msbdy_x%3D1%26ms bdp%3D5%26gskw%3Dliver*%26gskw_x%3D1%26_83004003-n_xcl%3Dm%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3Dvm5%26pcat%3DCEN_190 0%26fh%3D15%26h%3D146965%26recoff%3D%26fsk%3DBEFTM zMIgAAehgDV6IA-61-%26bsk%3D%26pgoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D16&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Czj4126&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[Merry]

Oooh, thank you both very much.

No, Maggie, I didn't look as far forward as 1911 :o

[garstonite]

Hiya Merry - why would a Baptist Minister wait until his daughter was an ADULT before she was baptised ???
Baptism: 8 Nov 1895 St George, Everton, Lancashire, England
Kate Palmerston Buck - [Child] of James Buck & Sarah
Abode: 4 Rupert Lane
Occupation: Baptist minister
Notes: Adult
Baptised by: Richard Postance

or is this just an amazing coincidence - a different James and Sarah and James being a Baptist Minister - if it is them - 4 Rupert Lane is by Evertons football ground

what do you think ?

[Merry]

I'd say not a co-incidence as Kate and her husband and children were at 4 Rupert Lane, Everton in 1891.

I presume St George's is C of E? If yes, then I would imagine she had converted. Having said that, she had been married in C of E in 1884 (St Mary's West Derby) so I'm surprised her C of E bap wasn't before that!

I don't have any baptism records for any of James's children. I don't know much about Baptists - don't they go in for adult baptisms rather than babies?

Interesting about the football ground - when was it built?

[garstonite]

1891 to 1892 Everton ground was built - Everton were formed from St Domingo church - which was a Methodist church - St George is an Anglican C of E church - still open today .
St Mary ,West Derby is a beautiful church and we are talking money people here - even today it is a rich area - so why would she be in a rich area like West Derby in 1884 - ? where did James and Sarah live in Liverpool ??

[Merry]

Interesting.

James's addresses:

1851 Abercromby, Liverpool, Lancashire
1861 and 1871 28 West Derby Street, Liverpool, Lancashire
1881 138 Edge Lane, West Derby, Lancashire

Before 1851 James lived in Yorkshire with his first wife, though he was born in Dorset where his family had lived for centuries. His father was a mariner (like most of my Dorset Bucks). James's father died in Liverpool (Abercromby) in the 1850s but as I don't have him in 1841 I don't know when he came to Liverpool from Dorset. When he died he was living with James.

Kate's husband was a tailor and draper. They moved to Staffordshire before the 1901 census (maybe Kate didn't like football?!)

Her brothers were commercial clerks.

[Merry]

When Kate married at St Mary's West Derby her husband's address was West Derby but Kate's was St Saviour's Liverpool

[garstonite]

Abercromby / West Derby Street and Edge Lane are all typical Liverpool areas - working class - West Derby Village isn't though - I presume Kates husbands family had money then - maybe they owned a Tailors business in the City Centre ?? ...anyway - good luck with your search ...xxx and thanks again for your help

[kiterunner]

Hiya Merry - why would a Baptist Minister wait until his daughter was an ADULT before she was baptised ???


Because that's what Baptists do.

[Merry]

lol Kate!

[Mary from Italy]

She's right; they don't believe in child baptism.

[ElizabethHerts]

I blame my not being able to find the parents of my 3x-great-grandmother Sarah Thomason on the fact that her family was probably Baptist. Her children were not baptised and her husband Edward White was probably baptist (although C of E at birth).
As they married at the end of June 1837, just tantalisingly before civil registration, I can't find out who her father was, and he was deceased as she had a guardian. She died in 1843 so the censuses are of no use, either!

[Merry]

Elizabeth, I've posted a Q on your Sarah Thomason thread :)

[ElizabethHerts]

Thanks, Merry! I have replied.