Trying to find a family relative

[geniebug]

The undermentioned was copied from very old IGI records

Abraham GORRINGE(m) M 19 Nov 1751 #178143
Rel Mary F.L. Greaves, London, England
(No parents listed)

He married Ann Lloyd on that date in St Geo Chapel, Mayfair London

I am trying to track down how Mary F.L. Greaves was related.

Small chance, but would F.L stand for formerly Lloyd?????

Otherwise can anyone help me find said Mary F.L. Greaves

[Merry]

There are several old threads about this, but I don't have time to post all the links now. I just entered Abraham GORRINGE in the search box. (none had the answer, but covered a lot of surrounding info)

[kiterunner]

This looks to be the main one:

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showthread.php?t=15231&highlight=gorringe

[geniebug]

Thanks Merry & Kite, though neither of the previous messages answered exactly what I was enquiring about except this

I looked at that before, Janet, and got nowhere. It says Gabriel Wingrove married someone 7 Aug 1757, but they don't seem to know whom he married. But now you've reminded me about it, I've had another try, and found another entry which says he married Catherine Lloyd. So if that's right, Catherine may be a relative of Abraham's wife Ann, and Mary F L Greaves could be related to Ann and Catherine. But it would help if we could see how this person has fitted them all together!
__________________
KiteRunner

Whilst it doesn't tell me who Mary F.L Greaves is, it does tell me that Catherine Lloyd and Ann Lloyd may have been sisters.

Thank you anyway ladies.

[kiterunner]

If you have a sub or some credits for Findmypast, they have the image for Gabriel Wingrove's marriage record from 1757 (in the Westminster Marriages) and also an entry for him in the Faculty Office Marriage Licences though I think that will just be an index entry (I haven't got a sub at the moment to view them.)

[ElizabethHerts]

Gabriel Wingrove of the Parish of St James Westminster Batchelor and Katherine Lloyd of this Parish Spinster married in this Church by License

The date was 13th August 1757.
Both signed.
Witnesses: John Evers, Wm. Jenkins

FMP transcribed the bride's surname as Koyo! This was because the writing was faint, I think.

Her signature is quite clear.

[ElizabethHerts]

First name(s) GABRIEL
Last name WINGROVE
Licence year 1757
Licence date 12 Aug 1757
New calender date 12 Aug 1757
Bride's first name(s) Catherine
Bride's last name LLOYD
Groom's first name(s) Gabriel
Groom's last name WINGROVE
Place Dioceses of England & Wales
Record set Faculty Office Marriage Licences
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from England, Great Britain, Wales

[geniebug]

Thanks girls, well that proves Abraham and Gabriel were brothers in law. I still don't know who Mary F.L Greaves is tho - thats why I wondered if the F.L in her name stood for "formerly Lloyd"

We have never been able to get past Abraham's parents John & Ann (what their surname was - tho I've been led to believe they come from Sussex). I know a lot of people related to the Gorringes (or Gorings as they became later) - and not one of us has been able to go beyond Abraham & Ann, tho we do know the parents are just John & Ann. Seems like its a dead end - still. lol

[kiterunner]

It doesn't prove they were brothers-in-law, does it? Only that they both married women called Lloyd and that someone thinks they were both related to Mary F L Greaves? Or am I missing something?

[geniebug]

Well not really - not any great proof.

I am just curious why Mary F L Greaves was named as rel (and it appears on against Abraham and Gabriel). Who is she, why can't we find her - thats why I wondered if she was a former Lloyd as well.

[kiterunner]

I've been searching around on the internet to try and find out what the various numbers on the IGI entries mean, but with no luck yet:
From the Abraham Gorringe entry: F#: 178143, P#: 918, and O#: 32662.
From the Gabriel Wingrove entry: F#: 178143, P#: 862, and O#: 30860.

Maybe if we could figure it out or find someone who knows, we would know where to look for the full submissions.

[kiterunner]

I found a site which says that F# is film number, P# page number, and O# ordinance number, and that @ = Names and relationships of others stated in source.

So if this is correct, it is film number 178143, which is:
Baptisms for the dead, 1919-1949; heir indexes, 1919-1926, 1950-1953
Authors:
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Hawaii Temple (Main Author)

Registers, v. A, 2 Dec 1919 (includes heir index)

and you can order the microfilm to be sent to your local Family History Centre (click on the microfilm symbol):
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/32627?availability=Family%20History%20Library

FamilySearch are discontinuing their microfilm ordering service on 1st Sep 2017 - the last day for ordering will be 31 Aug 2017. It used to be possible to order a printout of a certain entry from a microfilm but not any more, unfortunately.

[kiterunner]

Okay, from googling around some more I found where someone has uploaded some actual images of the IGI listing (although of course it is just an index, and doesn't include all the info you would get from the microfilm entries):

http://www.htracyhall.org/pdf/IRH-Genealogy/Cabinent%201/Drawer%203/JeffersonResearch/JeffersonResearch-1167.pdf

I browsed through to find a "Rel" name which looked likely to be unique, and found an entry for John Fisher, born about 1768, Pendleton Co, West Virginia, baptised 29 Aug 1936 Slake, rel: Hallie May Belknap Weese (no parents listed). Googling for Hallie May Belknap Weese, I found her obituary from 1970 which says she died aged 83, and was active in the LDS Church.

So, it looks as though the "Rel" in this entry is the person who had their ancestor baptised into the LDS Church, and so I reckon that Mary F L Greaves is likely to be a 20th century descendant or relative (or thought she was) of both Abraham Gorringe and Gabriel Wingrove, and had them baptised into the LDS Church.

[Janet]

Searching Ancestry for Mary F. L. Greaves, exactly, returns seven records. Circumstantial evidence would therefore perhaps point to this woman Mary Florence Lloyd Greaves in Salt Lake County, Utah who was born in England:

https://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=58100541&ref=acom

Here she is on her son's birth certificate:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/9172/42880_b160140-00487/35516?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2 fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dyIr237%26_phstart%3dsucce ssSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dproquestnews%26s o%3d2%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dMar y%2bFlorence%2bLloyd%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dGreaves %26gsln_x%3d1%26cp%3d0%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3 d2%26MSV%3d1%26uidh%3d9uh&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=42880_b1601 40-00487

She died at the L.D.S. hospital:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/9174/42675_b159648-00009/187940?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dyIr244%26_phstart%3dsucce ssSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dutahdeathcert%26 so%3d2%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dMar y%2bFlorence%2bLloyd%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dGreaves %26gsln_x%3d1%26cp%3d0%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3 d2%26MSV%3d1%26uidh%3d9uh&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

I think Kiterunner has probably surmised correctly, Jood, that this woman thought she was related to your Abraham Gorringe and Gabriel Wingrove.

[geniebug]

Wow - Janet & Kate, you've done a sterling job sleuthing that for me. I hope all the research helps other people with similar problems.

So she was a Lloyd after all.

I could not open the www site in Ancestry as we only have English Ancestry, but am hopeful I can get someone to open it for me.

Thank you again.

[kiterunner]

If you go on FamilySearch and choose to search Genealogies, and put in: First names Mary Florence, Last name Lloyd, spouse James William Greaves, you will find several entries for her. But they don't seem to go any further back in her Lloyd line than her father (John Thomas Lloyd or Thomas John Lloyd, married to Lillian Sykes). Probably unlikely to help with tracing your Lloyds.

[geniebug]

Just looked in Family Search and saw the names as you described.

I probably won't ever link them up with my Abraham Gorringe & Ann Lloyd - but at least I know why Mary Florence Lloyd Greaves's name was listed as rel - and that's what I was trying to work out.

Meanwhile back to looking for Abraham Gorringe's parents John & Ann somebody. Don't worry though - thousands of us descendants have been looking beyond that since 1911.

Thanks for your help Kate.

[Lindsay]

Slightly off topic, but when my grandparents lived near Eastbourne, Sussex in the 1960s, there was a Gorringe Valley Road close by. I always though it was a wonderful name, and I've never forgotten it!

I hope you find your elusive Gorringes, Jood.

[geniebug]

I hope you find your elusive Gorringes, JoodI doubt I ever will, Lindsay. One of their children, the only son, left England for Canada, and his name changed to Goring, which was my Nana's maiden name. My dad was trying to do the family history back to front, he'd been told we were related to Lord Goring. There is a reference to a “Lord Goring” who owned an Estate and a Manor House in the village of Goring, Sussex. An older relative showed him three postcards which depicted various parts of the State to verify this. Each carried its own printed caption as follows:
* Highdown Hill above Goring near Worthing looking towards the 7 Sisters and Beremy Head.
* Chanctonbury ring near Worthing.
* Chanctonbury Ring from the Western Pond SOUTHDOWNS.

The relative also told him the family of Goring originally came from Sussex, England. During the reign of Charles II the family was given a grant of land in Canada for “services rendered” against Oliver Cromwell, and they subsequently migrated there. (sounds inmpressive but all talk methinks)

Dad even visited the place but could not find any link. Mind you - that was in the 1980s.

I am guessing that Abraham Gorringe's parents John & Ann ? came from Sussex but cannot substantiate it at this stage - as we don't know who the "Ann" is or where they came from.