Missing birth registration

[Michael]

I've been going back over my notes recently, trying to fill in dates/places which I've previously been missing, and have realised that I don't have the GRO entry for my 2g-grandfather James Norman.

He died at 6 Pleasant Street, Swansea, on 11th July 1900; age on death certificate 48. The ages he gives on censuses vary slightly (9 in 1861; 17 in 1871; 30 in 1881) but all give a DOB sometime around 1852 give or take a year or two. All give Swansea as the place. His parents were Robert Norman and Catherine (formerly Griffith or Griffiths).

This is the family in 1861 at 18 Back Street, Swansea:

Robert Norman, head, married, 48, mariner, Exeter Devon
Catherine Norman, wife, married, 47, mariner's wife, Fishguard Pembroke
Edwin Norman, son, 12, scholar, Swansea Glamorgan
Sarah Norman, daughter, 11, scholar, Swansea Glamorgan
James Norman, son, 9, scholar, Swansea Glamorgan
Robert Norman, son, 5, scholar, Swansea Glamorgan

I can't find any entry which could be James, either in the GRO's own index or on Ancestry. I wondered if it might have been omitted from the national register but would appear in the local one, so I applied to Swansea RO for the cert - they sent me the only one they could find with the right parents' names, but that was on 26th August 1838: that isn't the same James, but his brother who died in 1842 (death reg Q1, Swansea, v26 p375).

I haven't found birth entries for Edwin or Sarah either (Robert is there, Swansea 1855), nor found the family on the 1851 census. Given that Robert senior was a mariner, I wondered if he might have gone to sea for a time, and some of the children been born abroad? I can't think of any other explanation.

[Nell]

Have you found baptisms for any of them, Michael?

[kiterunner]

Birth registration wasn't compulsory at that time so it could just be that he wasn't registered.

[JBee]

or he was known by his second name but registered in another.

[Olde Crone]

Birth registration was compulsory, but it was the duty of the Registrar to seek out the births, not the parents to report it, so it may just be that the registrar was lazy or incompetent etc and didn't catch up with them until Robert WS born.

In 1875 it became the responsibility of the parents to register the births and this does seem to have increased registration.

Also, prior to 1875, there was a fine for late registration, but no fine for non registration!

In my tree, if they weren't registered, they were baptised.


OC

[Michael]

Julie - I've looked up every Norman in Swansea in the years in question; none has Edwin, Sarah or James as either a first or second forename and none has the right MMN. Pretty sure they're not there!

Thanks all - I hadn't thought to try baptisms. Will have to put another research request in at Glamorgan RO.

[kiterunner]

Wouldn't their baptisms be on FMP?

[Merry]

Here they are in 1851 in Swansea:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8861/GLAHO107_2466_2466-0404?pid=15636035&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DQng3212%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1851wale s%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26 gsfn%3Dedwin%26gsfn_x%3D1%26msbdy%3D1848%26msbdy_x %3D1%26msbdp%3D2%26gskw%3Dswansea%26gskw_x%3D1%26c pxt%3D1%26cp%3D11%26catbucket%3Drstp%26MSAV%3D2%26 MSV%3D1%26uidh%3D672%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D6%26h%3D15 636035%26recoff%3D6%26ml_rpos%3D7&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Qng3212&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

All the children have Swansea as their place of birth. Catherine has Exeter, but it looks like that's because Robert's details were originally entered as head, but the forename was switched to Catherine, presumably because Robert wasn't in residence that night.

[Merry]

Don't know if you have the 1841?

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8979/GLAHO107_1426_1427-0201/14255401?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1841wales%26gss%3dsfs28_ms _r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3 djohn%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dno*n%26gsln_x%3d1%26ms bdy%3d1839%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26gskw%3dswan sea%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26MSV%3d1%26uidh%3d672&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Michael]

Good spot, thanks Merry. I'd tried every variant and wildcard combination I could think of, but somehow "Numan" slipped under the radar! I did have the 1841 entry thanks.

And thanks for the pointer Kite, at the moment I have an Ancestry sub but not FMP and I sometimes forget that one has records which the other doesn't! Just tried there and not found him (or the other two). I don't know how comprehensive their Wales parish records are.

[Merry]

I'd tried every variant and wildcard combination I could think of, but somehow "Numan" slipped under the radar!

I probably wouldn't have thought of searching Numan either. I searched forename Edwin, no surname, keyword Swansea and looked down the results for something that looked likely. There were only 15 matches across a five year birth year range.