Birth Record

[Zoemcdougall]

I am looking for the birth record of Lena Roberts, she was married to Percival Brotherton Jones, she died in Prestatyn North Wales 2007 i think.

[kiterunner]

For reference, Percival was born in 1922 and they got married in Oct-Dec 1955 in Ruthin district.

[kiterunner]

Percival Brotherton Jones died Feb 2006 in Denbighshire North or Denbighnorth district, so do you think Lena could be the Lena Jones who died the same month and in the same district, date of birth 2 Jul 1932?

[kiterunner]

Okay, the 1939 Register has Lena (Jones) Roberts dob 2 Jul 1932 living in Ruthin district.

[Zoemcdougall]

Thank you once again Kate.

[Zoemcdougall]

I am not sure of the exact date Lena died, but knew it was sometime after Uncle Percy died,

[kiterunner]

Hmm, I can't see a birth index entry for a Lena Roberts Jul-Sep 1932.

I haven't got an FMP sub at the moment, but fiddling around with the free search for the 1939 Register, it looks as though she is with a Cadwaladr Roberts born 1885 and a Margaret (Keturah M) Roberts born 1895. There is a Cadwaladr Roberts / Keturah M Gilbert marriage Jan-Mar 1932 Corwen district.

So Lena's birth index entry is this one:
Births Sep 1932
Roberts Lina Gilbert Ruthin 11b 395

[Zoemcdougall]

Cadwaladr is the middle name of her son with Percy, can't but his full name up, he was born 1955/6

[Zoemcdougall]

Kate, Was Cadwaladr Roberts & Meturah Margaret Gilbert, born in the Corwen Area too. or just married there

[kiterunner]

No idea, sorry.

[Zoemcdougall]

Ok Thank you Kate

[Merry]

Kate, Was Cadwaladr Roberts & Meturah Margaret Gilbert, born in the Corwen Area too. or just married there

This is the death reg for Cadwaladr as the dob is the same as on the 1939 register:

Name: Cadwaladr Roberts
Birth Date: 3 Dec 1885
Date of Registration: Sep 1969
Age at Death: 83
Registration district: Ruthin
Inferred County: Denbighshire
Volume: 8a
Page: 1761

If that date is right (in particular the year) this seems the most likely birth reg:

Births Mar 1886
ROBERTS Cadwaledr Corwen 11b 331 mmn Jones

Looking at the census, it's most likely his parents were Morris and Catherine (nee Jones, married Q1 1883 Corwen) and he was born in Cerrig y Druidion, Denbighshire.

I can't be 100% certain though - the marriage cert would be the way to go to be sure.

I can't get anywhere with Keturah Margaret Gilbert though.

[Merry]

Oooh, this is weird.....

There are two older children showing on the 1939 register for the Roberts family and I presumed they were from a previous marriage for Cadwaladr. I looked for the registrations but couldn't find anything, however, a little more prodding produced the following....

This is what is on the 1939 register:

Peleg Roberts b 12 Sept 1928
Thomas M Roberts b 28 Sept 1930

and this is what I found on the BMD register:

Births Dec 1928
Gilbert Peleg mmn Dadwaladr Corwen 11b 462

Births Dec 1930
Gilbert Thomas M mmn Cadwaladr Corwen 11b 450

Presumably Dadwaladr is just a typo?

Anyway - I had previously thought Keturah's maiden name was Gilbert, but now I'm wondering .....

This must be Keturah Margaret (or however you spell her first name!):

Marriages Dec 1917
Cadwaladr Karurah M Gilbert Bala 11b 591
Gilbert Charles H Cadwaladr Bala 11b 591


And still I can't see her birth!

EDIT:

Oh, there's this on the 1911 census:

Katurah M Cadwaladr abt 1896 Bettws Y Coed, Carnarvon, Wales Niece Llangwm, Merionethshire

[Merry]

I still can't see a birth/death reg or anything on the 1901 census, but her dob on the 1939 register was 7 Oct 1895 if that helps!

[Merry]

I looked to see where Bettws y Coed was and found it's Llanwrst district. I then found this:

Births Dec 1895
Thomas Ceturah Margaret Llanrwst 11b 303

In 1901 she was listed as Ceturia M Thomas and was with the same couple as in 1911 (Thomas and Jane Cadwaladr) but this time instead of niece she was granddaughter! Anyway, same place of birth etc, which is what you were asking about (where was she brought up?). The GRO index suggests her birth was an illegitimate one, so I'm not sure how come she is a Thomas and not a Cadwaladr at that time, but maybe you don't need to know that?!!

[Merry]

I found KM's baptism on FMP (under Thomas) and her mother was apparently Sarah Thomas (no father recorded). Same for another child, Robert Ellis Cadwladr/Thomas who varied between the two surnames as well (b Dec 1890, reg Q1 1891).

[Zoemcdougall]

Thank you Merry & Kate for your help. as ever it's very much appreciated,

Keturah a very unusual name

[Zoemcdougall]

I wonder why they varied from using the two surnames, just to confuse me i guess! like 4 of my Dad's cousins, who don't use their first names but one of their 2 middle names.

[Merry]

Goodness knows!

I did notice that not only was Keturah listed as granddaughter and niece of the same couple on different censuses (1901 and 1911), but her 'brother' Robert Ellis C/T was also listed as nephew to the same couple on the 1891 census, but this was then crossed through and grandson written. I did wonder if it were possible for the child/children to be related both ways depending on whether you were thinking about the relationship through the bio mother or father? I can't think whether that could work without anything incestuous happening though!