View Full Version : Finding Jessie Dodd's birth
CuriousKat
16-05-17, 17:38
Hi all i am trying to find out information on Jessie Dodd's parents,
Jessie was born Hightown Lancs in 1885, she is on the 1891 census with her parents, William Dodd b 1821 Chester) & Martha ?? B 1861 Leeds.They are living at 12 Victorious Rd, Eccleshill Yorkshire. Willaim is a shoe/boot maker.
They are at 5 Fern Terrace in Bramley in 1901. 22/4/1904 Jessie marries Albert John Davis in Eccleshill, William is still alive & is a witness.
By 1911 Martha is a housekeeper living in Manningham, widowed & not listed as having a child.
I thought maybe her birth certificate could help, but none on gro look like winners.
Any ideas on how to find more on her birth & parents?
DODD, JESSIE CORNES Order Parents George Church Dodd & Julia Cornes
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in CHORLTON Volume 08C Page 838 Order
DODD, JESSIE RICHARDS Order
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in MARKET DRAYTON Volume 06A Page 743 Order
DODD, JESSIE RYE Order
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 564 Order
DODD, JESSIE SMITH Order
GRO Reference: 1885 D Quarter in YORK Volume 09D Page 59 Order
DODD, JESSIE BITHELL Order
GRO Reference: 1885 D Quarter in CHESTER Volume 08A Page 375 Order
DODD, JESSIE DAVENPORT Order
GRO Reference: 1886 M Quarter in NANTWICH Volume 08A Page 364 Order
DODD, JESSIE DYSON Order
GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in CHESTER-LE-STREET Volume 10A Page 458 Order
DODD, JESSIE ELIZABETH THOMPSON Order
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE Volume 10B Page 32 Occasional Copy: A Order
DODD, JESSIE FLORENCE DUNSTAN
GRO Reference: 1887 S Quarter in TAVISTOCK Volume 05B Page 355
DODD, JESSIE FRANCES BARDEN
GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in TUNBRIDGE Volume 02A Page 662
DODD, JESSIE ROSINA PEAD
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in HACKNEY Volume 01B Page 583
CuriousKat
16-05-17, 17:51
Ignore me on on some of it!! In a rare moment of brain power i wondered if Martha had remarried & he did in 1918 to Charles Fields & lists her father as Henry Ward!
Jessie Davis is the witness. :-) However i still can't see a birth for Jessie.
Olde Crone
16-05-17, 18:58
Given the huge disparity in their ages I think this is the marriage although William's occupation is wrong, everything else fits
25 Jan 1886 St Augustine Pendlebury
William Dodd 59 chemist, widower of Pendlebury
Martha Ward 25 domestic servant spinster of Pendlebury
John Dodd labourer
Henry Ward blacksmith
Wits Boyd Allen Rhoda Kerfoot.
So this might be Jessie's birth
Jessie WARD 1884 Q 4 Salford 8d 65.
OC
If Wm and Martha married in 1886 then it's most likely Jessie was born before that. Her reg should be in Prestwich, but I don't see anything under Ward or Dodd, so she may have been registered in another name if her father was someone else.
Interestingly the GRO have recorded the mmn as Ward rather than as - for an illegitimate birth!
Olde Crone
16-05-17, 19:09
Merry
That might be an idiosyncracy ( snigger) of Salford recording methods which are sometimes a bit odd, in my experience.
OC
Olde Crone
16-05-17, 19:54
Hmmm.
There is a baptism in 1884 which is probably the 1884 Ward/Ward birth above but I cannot find a corresponding marriage - was Martha pretending to be married to John Ward?
22 October 1884 St James Broughton
Jessie Ward born 1 October 1884
John Ward, joiner and Martha, 72 Peter Street.
OC
Bother, I was just looking at something that mentioned a John Ward, joiner, but I just closed the page and have no idea what it was!
CuriousKat
16-05-17, 20:34
I did have the Pendlebury marriage in my sights but i too had doubts over the age & job. Today though i found a baptism record of a William Dodd
WILLIAM
Last name DODD
Age -
Gender Male
Birth year 1820
Birth date -
Baptism year 1820
Baptism date 19 Nov 1820
Church St. Oswald
Place CHESTER
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Dodd
Mother's first name(s) Mary
The father John Dodd is listed as being a druggist? maybe the occupations are mixed up on the wedding certificate??
Olde Crone
16-05-17, 20:44
Yes, wouldn't be the first time occupations had been mixed up, I have quite a few in my tree.
OC
kiterunner
16-05-17, 22:51
If Wm and Martha married in 1886 then it's most likely Jessie was born before that. Her reg should be in Prestwich, but I don't see anything under Ward or Dodd, so she may have been registered in another name if her father was someone else.
Are you sure it would be Prestwich? It looks as though it should be in West Derby to me?
Are you sure it would be Prestwich? It looks as though it should be in West Derby to me?
No, I'm not sure. I said that because I thought Hightown was part of North Manchester which would be Prestwich district. Now I realise that was only the case in the mid-1890s onwards, but I don't know which parish included Hightown before that, if indeed it was ever in North Manchester at all!
I've been using the same Registration District Finding Aid for about 15 years, but it doesn't seem to be online any more. Hopefully I have a copy of it on my desktop computer.
kiterunner
17-05-17, 07:05
The Hightown which I found (in the Lancashire A-Z but it also comes up on a Google search) was in Little Crosby, which was in West Derby district at that time. Not the same place as the one you found in Manchester.
kiterunner
17-05-17, 07:11
But I don't think your Jessie will be the one registered West Derby in 1885 with MMN Rye as there are quite a few Dodd / Rye children registered there including another Jessie in 1890, with a Jessie Dodd age 1 death Jan-Mar 1887 West Derby.
Are you saying the Salford one isn't right then?
Where is the Broughton where that baptism took place in 1884?
Olde Crone
17-05-17, 09:04
St James, Broughton is actually in Higher Broughton, which is in the Salford diocese.
Broughton is near Preston and is not the same place.
OC
Edit to say - I think the 1884 Salford birth and the 1884 StbJames baptism are for the same Jessie Ward. Whether she is Jessie Dodd is another question!
kiterunner
17-05-17, 09:30
Are you saying the Salford one isn't right then?
I don't know whether it is.
kiterunner
17-05-17, 09:37
On the 1911 census, Jessie's birthplace is Manchester, so the Hightown in Salford must be the right one.
I haven' got the time to look at this properly now, but if someone else wats to.....!
Saw this:
WARD, ANN mmn WARD
GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 85
and thought this might be her (the granddaughter)
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/6598/LANRG12_3219_3221-0362?pid=20988018&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DQng2552%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1891%26g ss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26 gsfn%3Dann*%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Dward%26gsln_x%3D 1%26msbdy%3D1882%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D1%26gskw% 3Dsalford%26gskw_x%3D1%26cpxt%3D1%26cp%3D11%26catb ucket%3Dr%26MSAV%3D2%26MSV%3D1%26uidh%3D672%26pcat %3D35%26fh%3D0%26h%3D20988018%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpo s%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Qng2552&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
note the grandfather is a joiner called John.
Connected? And if yes, to the right people or to the wrong people?
Must dash..... :D
Oh and there were dozens and dozens of Ward/Ward GRO records when I forgot put Salford in the district box, so have the GRO changed the way they enter up illegitimate births?
*
kiterunner
17-05-17, 12:45
I haven' got the time to look at this properly now, but if someone else wats to.....!
Saw this:
WARD, ANN mmn WARD
GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in SALFORD Volume 08D Page 85
and thought this might be her (the granddaughter)
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/6598/LANRG12_3219_3221-0362?pid=20988018&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DQng2552%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1891%26g ss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26 gsfn%3Dann*%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Dward%26gsln_x%3D 1%26msbdy%3D1882%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D1%26gskw% 3Dsalford%26gskw_x%3D1%26cpxt%3D1%26cp%3D11%26catb ucket%3Dr%26MSAV%3D2%26MSV%3D1%26uidh%3D672%26pcat %3D35%26fh%3D0%26h%3D20988018%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpo s%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Qng2552&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
note the grandfather is a joiner called John.
Connected? And if yes, to the right people or to the wrong people?That Annie Ward does look likely, Merry. But -
This looks like the family in 1871 but no Martha:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7619/LANRG10_4035_4037-0365/17744576?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1871%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db %26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dwil* %26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dward%26gsln_x%3d1%26msbdy%3 d1867%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26msfng%3djohn%26m sfng_x%3d1%26gskw%3dlanc*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2% 26MSV%3d0%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Nor in 1881:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/LANRG11_3986_3990-0463/10718635?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Also, the older children were born in Manchester too, so Martha doesn't seem to fit.
Could John jr have become a joiner after 1881? (He is a general labourer on the 1881 census.)
Oh and there were dozens and dozens of Ward/Ward GRO records when I forgot put Salford in the district box, so have the GRO changed the way they enter up illegitimate births?
My OH's g-grandmother still has MMN showing as - for her birth reg on the GRO site.
Could John jr have become a joiner after 1881? (He is a general labourer on the 1881 census.)
That's a possibility.
With regard to the number of Ward/Ward births, I think it's just there are a massive number of Ward/Ward marriages! I know when I use FreeBMD to search Ward married Ward a high percentage will not have married each other, but even so - there are a lot!!
CuriousKat
17-05-17, 13:47
Sorry i may of lost the though train somewhere. Are we discounting Henry Ward b Leeds 1839 d i think 1866 & Mary Glow 1829 as Martha's parents? They also had a son Rowland b 1855 which ties in with Martha's daughter having son called Rowland Davis. Though i think Henry's age might be out as he would only have been 15 when they married! Coincidentally a Samuel Dodd is witness on the marriage cert.
Or am i babbling & completely of track on what you lovely ladies are talking about?
kiterunner
17-05-17, 14:22
We were just checking on whether the Henry Ward could be wrong, I think. Or if that John Ward, joiner, could be Jessie's paternal grandfather.
But yes, this does look to be Martha's family in 1861:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/WRYRG9_3389_3391-0314/10540473?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dCtf1452%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3duki1861%26so%3d 2%26pcat%3d1861UKI%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3dmarth*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dward%26gsln_x% 3d1%26msfng%3dh*r*y%26msfng_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26MSV %3d0%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
3 Rdge Bldgs, Leeds
Henry Ward Head Mar 22 Black Smith Yorkre Leeds
Mary Do Wife Mar 32 Do Do
Rowland Do Son 6 Do Do
Martha Do Daur 5 mo Do Do.
Yes, I was trying to get Martha to marry someone from the joiner's household! (preferably his son, as you suggested, Kate!)
I can't see a baptism for Ann.
kiterunner
17-05-17, 17:43
No entry for 72 Peter Street in the 1883 or 1886 Slater's Directory of Manchester and Salford.
CuriousKat
18-05-17, 14:56
So a dead end on Jessie's birth, i wonder if it was registered!
At least i have some new details so will go back further on Martha's side. Not sure about william & that marriage is it or isn't it them????
So you don't think the Salford birth is the right one? I suppose whether it is or not you may only establish that Martha was her mother!
Not sure about william & that marriage is it or isn't it them????
You could check out when the first Mrs Dodd died to see if that fits for date. Plus Martha's father is right (do you know his occ from the later marriage cert) and the large gap in age fits. You could try and find another couple to go with the marriage.
CuriousKat
18-05-17, 16:39
You could check out when the first Mrs Dodd died to see if that fits for date. Plus Martha's father is right (do you know his occ from the later marriage cert) and the large gap in age fits.
The later marriage lists her father as Henry Ward, Blacksmith. I think i am safe in saying they are the same person. The civil registration for it says Salford so that as you say ties in with the Salford birth of Jessie.
This is from lan-opc for the 1st. I do think they mixed up the groom & his fathers profession.
Marriage: 25 Jan 1886 St Augustine, Pendlebury, Lancashire, England
William Dodd - 59, Chemist, Widower, Pendlebury
Martha Ward - 25, Domestic Servant, Spinster, Pendlebury
Groom's Father: John Dodd, Labourer
Bride's Father: Henry Ward, Blacksmith
Witness: Boyd Allen; Rhoda Kerfoot
Married by Banns by: Alfred Dewes
Register: Marriages 1874 - 1889, Page 172, Entry 343
Source: Manchester Central Library
CuriousKat
18-05-17, 16:45
Now however as you say, i have to find the 1st Mrs Dodd!
kiterunner
18-05-17, 16:56
So a dead end on Jessie's birth, i wonder if it was registered!
At least i have some new details so will go back further on Martha's side. Not sure about william & that marriage is it or isn't it them????
I think Jessie's birth registration is the Jessie Ward one at Salford in post #3 of this thread.
CuriousKat
18-05-17, 17:09
I think Jessie's birth registration is the Jessie Ward one at Salford in post #3 of this thread.
Thank you.
I shall have to send off & find out what it says. Onward to Mrs Dodd the 1st! :):)
kiterunner
18-05-17, 17:11
Possible for William in 1861 with his previous wife?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/CHSRG9_2625_2628-0042/22805488?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
10 Forbrook Street, Boughton, Chester
William Dodd Head Mar 40 Shoe Maker Local Preacher New CM Chester
Elizabeth Do Wife Mar 37 Cheshire Hoole
Elijah Do Son Un 15 Railway Clerk Chester
Kezia Daur 13 Do
Matthew H Do Son 11 Scholar Do
Alexander W Do Son 8 Do Staffordshire Wolverhampton
John Do Son 5 Do Do Do
Boughton could possibly be the "Bawton" which is your William's birthplace on the 1901 census?
CuriousKat
18-05-17, 17:23
Possible for William in 1861 with his previous wife?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/CHSRG9_2625_2628-0042/22805488?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
10 Forbrook Street, Boughton, Chester
William Dodd Head Mar 40 Shoe Maker Local Preacher New CM Chester
Elizabeth Do Wife Mar 37 Cheshire Hoole
Elijah Do Son Un 15 Railway Clerk Chester
Kezia Daur 13 Do
Matthew H Do Son 11 Scholar Do
Alexander W Do Son 8 Do Staffordshire Wolverhampton
John Do Son 5 Do Do Do
Boughton could possibly be the "Bawton" which is your William's birthplace on the 1901 census?
OOh on the 1901 census William is down as a Methodist preacher & shoe maker too... whats the odds of a different william?
CuriousKat
18-05-17, 17:29
Keziah's mother is Meacock
The marriage for William & her is here
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fchs%2f4018788%2f00190&parentid=gbprs%2fm%2f770458486%2f2&highlights=%22%22
Elizabeth
Last name Meacock
Age 22y
Marriage year 1843
Marriage date 12 Mar 1843
Marriage place Chester
Parish St. John the Baptist
Spouse's first name(s) William
Spouse's last name Dodd
Spouse's age 19y
Bride's father's name Thomas Meacock
John Dodd is the father but he is a labourer, not the chemist from the second marriage or the druggist from the possible baptism of William!
kiterunner
18-05-17, 17:30
This is the 1861 family in 1871 at Pembrey, Carmarthenshire:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7618/CMNRG10_5468_5471-0270/7126971?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
William Dodd Boarder Mar 50 Manager Chester St John
Elizabeth Do Do Mar 47 " Hoole
Mathew Do Do Son Unm 21 Baker " St John
William Do Son Unm 18 Shoe Maker Wolverhampton St James
John Do Son Unm 15 At home " St James
kiterunner
18-05-17, 17:37
Keziah's mother is Meacock
The marriage for William & her is here
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fchs%2f4018788%2f00190&parentid=gbprs%2fm%2f770458486%2f2&highlights=%22%22
Elizabeth
Last name Meacock
Age 22y
Marriage year 1843
Marriage date 12 Mar 1843
Marriage place Chester
Parish St. John the Baptist
Spouse's first name(s) William
Spouse's last name Dodd
Spouse's age 19y
Bride's father's name Thomas Meacock
John Dodd is the father but he is a labourer, not the chemist from the second marriage or the druggist from the possible baptism of William!
John Dodd is a labourer on the second marriage too; it's William who's down as a chemist, at least according to the transcription.
CuriousKat
18-05-17, 17:39
Ok i think i'm utterly confused!
The son Mathew Henry Dodd marries a Jessie Harrison in 1880 he lists his father as William Dodd chemical manufacturer, however he is on the 1891 census living with his widowed mother!! but that can't be if William married in 1886 as a widower!
I'm beginning to think i have intertwined 2 families or William Dodd was telling porkies?
kiterunner
18-05-17, 18:29
It would be an unlikely coincidence for that William to become a chemist if he isn't the same William who married Martha, wouldn't it? It wasn't uncommon for someone to be down as widowed on the census when they were separated and their spouse was still alive, and I for one have certainly come across a case or two of bigamy in my own family tree.
kiterunner
18-05-17, 18:38
I wish I could find William or any of his family in 1881! This is Matthew's wife and daughter but Matthew isn't there:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/LANRG11_3708_3712-0072/9265620?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
CuriousKat
18-05-17, 19:20
I wish I could find William or any of his family in 1881! This is Matthew's wife and daughter but Matthew isn't there:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/LANRG11_3708_3712-0072/9265620?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
I thought for sure Keziah Dodd would be a ... doddle! Excuse the pun! :p
the family seemed to have dodged the census returns!
kiterunner
18-05-17, 21:59
There is a public tree on ancestry which has William and Elizabeth on it, with a link to Elijah and John in 1881 (but not the rest of the family):
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/7572/LANRG11_3677_3682-0521/9107121?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/77106880/person/30358975798/facts
Link to the tree:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/77106880/person/30358975794/facts
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