Trying again to locate Harriet's Father

[BlueSavannah]

Hi,

I know i've looked at this in the past but I am trying again to see if I can locate who my Harriet Bailey (Smith?) father is. When she married Amos Mason in 1869 aged 20, she claimed her father was Benjamin Bailey, Collier. However, Harriet's mother Eliza only married Benjamin Bailey on the 15th May 1849 and Harriet's age always varies by a year or two so she could be born anytime between 1847-1849.

Harriet's mother Eliza (nee Hales) was married to Henry Smith and they are together in 1841 Oldbury, Shropshire (later Worcestershire by 1851). I've found a couple of birth regs for children to this couple, the last being Mary Ann Smith born Mar Q 1841. However, there is a child born in Dudley Union District called Charles Hickin Smith, mmn Hales in Dec Q 1846 and this tallies with a Charles Smith who is on the 1851 census with Eliza and her 2nd husband.

Here is the 1851 census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/STSHO107_2024_2024-0428/8653697?backurl=https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/2883779/person/-793768699/facts/citation/6065514193/edit/record

Its the period of 1841 to 1851 that is most interesting to me. Looking at that 51 census, Thomas, Lucianna (who is actually Susanna) and Mary Ann all are Henry Smiths children. Charles Smith is likely to be the above mentioned Charles and I can't be sure if Henry is actually his father or not. The middle name is making me wonder if he was illegitimate. Then there is George, Harriet & N.K. who I have no idea who is actually their father.

I can't find any Bailey/Bayley etc children with mmn of Hales birth registrations at all. I also can't find any Henry Smith deaths/burials that would be for sure the Henry in this family.

If anyone would like to help, I would appreciate any :)

[kiterunner]

Claire, do you have the details of Henry and Eliza's marriage, please?

[kiterunner]

Then there is George, Harriet & N.K. who I have no idea who is actually their father.


I don't think NK is a child of the family.

[BlueSavannah]

Hi Kate,

Yes, Henry Smith of the parish of South Muskham, Notts, a Bachelor. Married Eliza Hales , Spinster of this parish on the 3rd Sept 1827 at St Mary, Carlton le Moorland, Lincolnshire. Witnesses are Emma & Ann Hales. Actually, the vicar has written Elizabeth rather than Eliza but she clearly signs it Eliza.

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Claire. And I should have asked before, but is Benjamin a bachelor or widower on his marriage to Eliza?

[BlueSavannah]

Benjamin is a widower. Age just given as Major. Says he is a collier and his father was Samuel Bailey, Mason. I'm not actually sure if he was born in Oldbury as that was given for all of the occupants as their place of birth on the 1851 census but Eliza and at least one of her children on that census were not born there.

[kiterunner]

Have you found baptisms for any of the children?

[BlueSavannah]

Apologies for the delay, had to go sort some tea for the kids.

I haven't found any baptisms for the children born in Oldbury, only the eldest child of Henry & Eliza that was born in Navenby. I don't think there are any Oldbury parish records online.

[Phoenix]

I throw this in as an oddity:

HESSON, - HALE Order
GRO Reference: 1846 D Quarter in DUDLEY UNION Volume 18 Page 348

This child appears to have died as a baby

[Phoenix]

I wonder whether any workhouse records survive?

The way the children are grouped, it suggests that Charles etc have a different father, but not Benjamin, so they may be under a different surname. And I did wonder if Charles were born in the workhouse?

[BlueSavannah]

I wonder whether any workhouse records survive?

The way the children are grouped, it suggests that Charles etc have a different father, but not Benjamin, so they may be under a different surname. And I did wonder if Charles were born in the workhouse?

I agree Phoenix with regards to the grouping of the children. My gut was that the elder three Smith children were Henry's children, Charles is to someone else, and George & Harriet to a third man. Whether that third man is Benjamin, i'm not too convinced especially as I cannot locate any Bailey registrations for these children.

I did wonder about the workhouse too with Charles' registration being in Dudley Union.

[kiterunner]

It could well be that some of the children's births weren't registered at all since it wasn't compulsory in those days. But if not, they would likely have been baptised, but I guess the baptisms aren't online yet.

[BlueSavannah]

It could well be that some of the children's births weren't registered at all since it wasn't compulsory in those days. But if not, they would likely have been baptised, but I guess the baptisms aren't online yet.

I agree, though its odd Eliza would register the elder children to Henry Smith births but not her children 'to Benjamin Bailey...if he was their father'. Shame we can't search the births on the new GRO search facility with just the district and mother's maiden name to see if there were children called George & Harriet born in West Bromwich district that had Hales as the mother's maiden name. Just to see if they could have been registered with a different surname to Smith or Bailey/Bayley.

They are likely to have been baptised at Christ Church Oldbury but they don't appear to be online anywhere and I can't get to Worcestershire to which local office would hold the parish records for this church :(

A couple of the Smith children married at St Thomas, Dudley between 1851 and 1861 but no baptisms here for any of the Smith/Bailey children.

[kiterunner]

I agree, though its odd Eliza would register the elder children to Henry Smith births but not her children 'to Benjamin Bailey...if he was their father'. Shame we can't search the births on the new GRO search facility with just the district and mother's maiden name to see if there were children called George & Harriet born in West Bromwich district that had Hales as the mother's maiden name. Just to see if they could have been registered with a different surname to Smith or Bailey/Bayley.


Yesterday I used FreeBMD to get a list of all the Harriets and Harriotts registered in West Bromwich district 1848-1849 and looked each one up on the GRO online index to get MMN and all I came up with was a Harriet Hill birth registered Apr-Jun 1848 MMN Hale, but there was also a Thomas Hill birth 1846 with MMN Hale so I ruled her out. There was a Harriet Griffiths registered Oct-Dec 1848 with no MMN, meaning she was illegitimate.

I don't think it is odd if Eliza's children by Henry were registered but not the others, even if Benjamin Bailey was their father, as they were born before his marriage to Eliza so they were illegitimate.