Ellen Bentall (1837 - ????)

[tpb]

Ellen Bentall was born on 20 June 1837 and baptized at St. George in the East, now in Whitechapel, on 22 October 1837. Her family story is a sad one, and I would like to know how it ended, for better or worse.

Her father was named Alfred Bentall, occupation Mariner, and her mother was named Elizabeth Ann Ackland. They were not married at the time.

Alfred Bentall (1813 – 1839) was born at Totnes, Devon, attended a naval school at Portsmouth named HMS Excellent as a midshipman, and passed exams in seamanship in 1832 and navigation in 1833. Later, he became captain of a merchant brig named Permei. There is a record of that ship’s arrival in England in October 1837, having left Ceylon under his command on the 23rd April that year. He arrived to find that he had become a father. In his Will, written that November, he left most of his estate “for the support, maintenance and education of my reputed or illegitimate daughter named Ellen by Elizabeth Ann Ackland, now of Chapel Street in Devonport in the county of Devon".

A marriage record shows that Alfred and Elizabeth Ann were married in the same church in 1839. Her father is listed as Joseph, a carpenter. There is a plausible baptismal record for an Elizabeth Ann Ackland, baptized on 14 Aug 1818, also at Totnes, Devon, with a father named Joseph, on which his occupation was listed as ‘servant’.

In December 1839, Alfred’s ship ran onto rocks in a fog near Venice, and a few days later he drowned while trying to recover the cargo.

In May 1840, Elizabeth Ann produced a son. She wrote a Will, signed on June 1st, which starts “I, Elizabeth Ann Bentall, of Hoddesdon in the county of Hertford, widow, bequeath to my sister Jane Caddy of Devonport the sum of five pounds”. It then left everything else “in trust for my daughter Ellen Bentall and for my son at present unnamed”. The executors were two of Alfred’s brothers, both then living in London.

The baby, was baptized Alfred Bentall at the same church in Whitechapel on 17th July, 1840, but then died about 12 days later and was buried at Plymouth, in Devon on 29th July. Elizabeth Ann also died at Stoke Damerel (which is the parish in Plymouth that includes Devonport) not long after. Her Will was proved on 20th October.

So Ellen was alive in June of 1840, but I have searched for but found no record of a marriage or of her death. The sister, Jane Caddy, is also a mystery. Maybe someone knows or can find out more about Ellen or other relatives who might have helped raise her.

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch lists the baptism of an Elizabeth Jane Cady 4 Feb 1828 at Morrice Street Wesleyan, Devonport, Devon, dob 31 Dec 1827, parents Richard Cady and Jane. I haven't found their marriage yet to see whether this Jane was an Ackland.

[kiterunner]

You've probably seen this already, but probate was granted on Alfred's will 26 Feb 1840, and there is a handwritten note in the margin of the PCC copy next to the probate info which says "This grant revoked by Interlocutory Decree and Admon granted May 1842."

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5111/40611_310807-00495/678806?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=40611_310807-00496

My guess is that this was because this will became invalid when he married Elizabeth Ann, but it might be useful if we could find more information about who asked the court to revoke the grant, who admon was granted to, etc.

[kiterunner]

The Death Duty Register entries for Elizabeth Ann and Alfred (there are two entries for him, one for the probate and one for the admon) might possibly give more info about Ellen. But the actual Death Duty Registers aren't online, only the indexes, which are on Findmypast. The actual registers are at TNA in Kew. The ref nos in the indexes tell you which folio etc to look at.

[tpb]

Thank you Kiterunner,

I have a copy of Alfred's probate record, but I had not noticed the handwritten comment until now.

The index at http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=bmd%2fd%2fdduty%2f2335384 is helpful. Alfred's brother Francis was a solicitor at Freeman, Bothamley and Bentall, with an office at 39 Coleman St, and he was an executor to both Alfred and Elizabeth Ann's wills.

I suppose if he was filing a new plea, the most likely explanation is that Ellen was dead by then.

Tim

[Merry]

Re Jane Caddy...I wonder if this boy is her son?

CADDY, WILLIAM DYER mmn ACKLAND
GRO Reference: 1839 S Quarter in STOKE DAMEREL Volume 09 Page 382

I haven't found him anywhere else yet! (I looked forward as far as 1851 looking for siblings but found none)

[kiterunner]

I suppose if he was filing a new plea, the most likely explanation is that Ellen was dead by then.



I wondered if it could be that one or more of Elizabeth's heirs challenged the probate on Alfred's will because it left nothing to his wife, and whatever she was entitled to should have been passed on to her heirs instead of his? Or someone on behalf of Ellen?

[tpb]

A very interesting hypothesis!

But Elizabeth's Will states that if her children live they inherit everything (other than 5 pounds), and if both her children die before they reach the age of 21 then her sister Jane should receive another 30 pounds and the residue goes to Alfred's mother (Mary Anne), if alive,"for her separate use, independently of her husband and free from his ... debts or engagements" or to Mary Anne's children if she is dead.

I am assuming that the Will was drafted by Francis, Alfred's brother, who was a solicitor and one of the executors. Alfred's father, a banker, became bankrupt in 1841. Francis probably knew that the bank was in trouble.

Even if Alfred's Will was invalidated by the subsequent marriage, her Will doesn't help her side of the family, except for that 30 pounds.

I plan to visit England later this year, and will plan to visit Kew, if only to absorb the atmosphere.

Tim

[kiterunner]

Re Jane Caddy...I wonder if this boy is her son?

CADDY, WILLIAM DYER mmn ACKLAND
GRO Reference: 1839 S Quarter in STOKE DAMEREL Volume 09 Page 382

I haven't found him anywhere else yet! (I looked forward as far as 1851 looking for siblings but found none)

Since he seems to vanish like the rest of them, he must belong to the same family!

[tpb]

Kiterunner and Merry: as so many times before, thank you both. I suspect we are at another dead end, unless there is something in the second probate action.

After Merry's post, I found William Dyer Caddy, but the 'findmypast' transcription did not include mother's maiden name 'Ackland'.

However, that fragment corroborates both the 'sister Jane Caddy' relationship and the reason why Elizabeth commuted between the London docks and Devonport / Stoke Damerel. My instinct says that these are accurate.

Possibly as Wesleyans their records are less well documented. It seems they escaped the 1841 and 1851 censuses.

There is so much more of a romantic back story here that will never be told, but I suppose we must settle for what we have!

There was a Jane Caddy who died around Dec. 30, 1878, at Penzance, who could possibly have been connected. http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0001617%2f18790520%2f010

But that has nothing to do with Ellen.

Tim

[Merry]

After Merry's post, I found William Dyer Caddy, but the 'findmypast' transcription did not include mother's maiden name 'Ackland'.


You would need to look here to find mmn pre 1911:

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/#0

(click on 'Order Certificates Online' to begin)

It might help to get that birth cert as, firstly, it would confirm the mother's first name and secondly, knowing who her husband was (probably Richard, from Kate's earlier post) and his occupation might be a lead to discovering where they vanished to!

[Merry]

You didn't mention Elizabeth Ann's mother's name, but I see it was Martha (from EAA's baptism), so this looks like her parents marriage:

Name: Joseph Ackland
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 22 Jan 1803
Marriage Place: Saint George,East Stonehouse,Devon,England
Spouse: Martha Dyer

[Merry]

There's a Joseph Ackland buried at Totnes 17 Sep 1823 aged 44

There's a marriage between Martha Ackland widow and John Salter widower at Totnes 24 Sep 1826. She signed, he made his mark, witnesses Robert Hooper and George Philp both signed.

There's a burial for Martha Salter at Totnes 9 April 1828 aged 47.

[kiterunner]

There was a Jane Caddy who died around Dec. 30, 1878, at Penzance, who could possibly have been connected. http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0001617%2f18790520%2f010


That Jane Caddy was age 72, according to the GRO death index, and the newspaper notice says she was a spinster, so I don't think she is Elizabeth's sister.

[kiterunner]

The free search on BMD Registers website comes up with the baptism of a Mary Ann Caddy in 1817, TNA ref RG4/528 which it says is Register of Baptisms at the Cullompton Methodist Circuit in Devon from 1798 to 1819. Parents John and Jane.

I don't know why I didn't find it on ancestry or anywhere before (edit - I probably did and ignored it), but here is the image on ancestry, which says it is Exeter, Mint (Wesleyan):
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2972/40612_B0147819-00044/249836?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

I don't think she is a Mary Ann - this is my transcription.

Mary Duer Daughter of John and Jane Caddy was Born October the 31st in the Parish of St Sidwell Exeter and Baptised November the 23 1817.

Duer seems close to Dyer. Or am I misreading it?

[kiterunner]

Oh, there is a John Caddy / Jane Duer marriage 9 Feb 1810 at Stoke Damerel, image on FMP:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fply%2f004634122%2f00233&parentid=gbprs%2fm%2f35013714%2f1&highlights=%22%22
John is a Private in the East Devon Militia and Jane is a spinster. Witnesses Ann Haill(?) and Wm Roberts (serial witness).

But if Martha's age at death is correct (post #13) Jane would be too old to be Martha's daughter, so this could be a red herring. I can't find an image of Joseph and Martha's marriage to see if it says whether Martha was a spinster or a widow.

[kiterunner]

These are other children of John and Jane, though I'm not certain they all belong to the same couple given the short gap between the two baptisms in 1820, but with Cross being used as a middle name at both Exeter and Brixham, I think they are all the same family and Jane Cross Caddy (the first one baptised in 1820) was maybe born in 1818 or 1819?

25 Nov 1810 St Andrew, Plymouth - Mary, daughter of John and Jane Caddy
27 Mar 1814 St Andrew, Plymouth - Ann Haill, da of John and Jane Caddy, Plymo Dock, Private East Devon Militia
8 Oct 1815 St Sidwell, Exeter - John Evans Caddy, parents John and Jane, residence St Sidwell, labourer (from transcription on FMP)
28 May 1820 St Sidwell, Exeter - Jane Cross Caddy, parents John and Jane, residence Factory Paris Street, day labourer (from transcription on FMP)
20 Aug 1820 Brixham - Mary Duer, daughter of John and Jane Caddy, Brixham, labourer
6 Oct 1822 Brixham - John Evans, son of John and Jane Caddy, Brixham, pauper
20 Aug 1826 Brixham - Maria Cross, daughter of John and Jane Caddy, Brixham, labourer

Still thinking they could be a red herring, but I thought it would be best to post them up so we can see whether we can definitely eliminate this Jane!

[Merry]

I'm confused :o Are you saying John Duer Caddy and Jane Duer could be the parents of the child born in 1839?

If Jane was the dau of Martha (if the age at death is wrong or I found the wrong Martha) then the next problem would be that Martha had children up to 1822.

I'm more bothered about Joseph being a servant rather than a carpenter on the baps of their three children
Joseph Phillip 25 Jul 1817

Elizabeth Ann 14 Aug 1818

William Henry 11 Aug 1822

- is this even the right Elizabeth Ann?

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch lists the baptism of an Elizabeth Jane Cady 4 Feb 1828 at Morrice Street Wesleyan, Devonport, Devon, dob 31 Dec 1827, parents Richard Cady and Jane. I haven't found their marriage yet to see whether this Jane was an Ackland.

Here is the image on ancestry, where the surname is transcribed as Eady:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2972/40612_B0148159-00164/1683756?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
It does look more like Eady to me.

[kiterunner]

I'm confused :o Are you saying John Duer Caddy and Jane Duer could be the parents of the child born in 1839? Probably not, but we don't know for sure yet that William's mother was called Jane, do we? By the way, his name is just John Caddy, not John Duer Caddy. Also, MMN shouldn't be down as Ackland if they were, but it's possible if Joseph was Jane's stepfather I suppose.

If Jane was the dau of Martha (if the age at death is wrong or I found the wrong Martha) then the next problem would be that Martha had children up to 1822. Yes, I said the Jane who I found was probably too old but it's just that Duer / Dyer similarity that makes me wonder.

I'm more bothered about Joseph being a servant rather than a carpenter on the baps of their three children
Joseph Phillip 25 Jul 1817

Elizabeth Ann 14 Aug 1818

William Henry 11 Aug 1822

- is this even the right Elizabeth Ann?
Oh, I hadn't noticed he was supposed to be a carpenter. Hmm.

[Merry]

I think it could be very useful to know who registered the deaths of Elizabeth Ann Bentall and her son, Alfred.

[kiterunner]

There is a Jane Caddy buried at Exeter in 1836, age 48, who could be the Exeter / Brixham one (John Caddy was buried at Brixham in 1825 age 45.) And some of John and Jane's children are in Brixham on the 1841 census. So looking unlikely that she is the right Jane.

[kiterunner]

I think it could be very useful to know who registered the deaths of Elizabeth Ann Bentall and her son, Alfred.

Good point.

[Merry]

Ellen Bentall was born on 20 June 1837 and baptized at St. George in the East, now in Whitechapel, on 22 October 1837.

A marriage record shows that Alfred and Elizabeth Ann were married in the same church in 1839.

I'm unsure as to whether these bits link together? "The same church"??

As far as I can see Alfred and Elizabeth Ann were married at St Botolph (without) Aldgate.

I have tried and tried to find the baptism for Ellen; there are a lot of entries at St George in the East for 22 Oct 1837, but I couldn't see hers. Once I realised the marriage wasn't in that church I looked for the bap at St Botolph Aldgate, but no success. Was the bap in the name Ackland?

[kiterunner]

This is it, Merry (transcribed as Beatall on ancestry):
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1558/31280_197797-00304/3914213?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
St John of Wapping.

[Merry]

Thanks Kate!

St John of Wapping??!! lol

[kiterunner]

That seems to be its official name.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/0c898874-b262-45e5-9efd-b44dccc05778

[tpb]

Apologies, I got the church wrong for Alfred and Elizabeth Ann's marriage - I jumped to the wrong conclusion.

This is Ellen Bentall's baptism transcription that I relied on, but findmypast did not give the actual image.

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fb%2f902201072%2f1

And here is Alfred's in 1840

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fb%2f902201361%2f1

Elizabeth Ann's Will made on June 1, 1840 provides a bequest for Jane Caddy, so the one of interest must have been alive on that date.

I was not aware of this GRO service. Although this is a rather expensive and slow delivery service, I have ordered a copy of William Dyer Caddy's birth certificate, since I am impressed by the thread of connections that says his mother's maiden name was Ackland, that Elizabeth Ann had a sister at Stoke Damerel named Jane Caddy, and that the only Elizabeth Ann Ackland with a plausible baptism record may have had a mother whose maiden name was Dyer.

I am not too concerned about the 'carpenter' reference. If he died when she was 5 years old, she might easily have claimed a more dignified occupation for him than just 'servant'.

I checked the GRO for a death certificate for Elizabeth Ann Bentall at Stoke Damerel and found the record. Her age is given as 22, which ties in with a baptism in 1818.

There is also a death certificate for Alfred Bentall at Plymouth in 1840 which appears to state his age as 2 years, but one of the two findmypast transcripts gives it as '2 months' which .
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fd%2f518014316%2f1.

I am not sure of the protocols for death certificates in those days. Would you expect to see the names of other family members? I am inclined to wait and find out the names of William Caddy's parents before trying to get those death certificates.

The other potential source of information is the Interlocutory Decree and Admon granted May 1842. First I would like to find out what exactly is meant by that terminology.

Tim

[kiterunner]

The new GRO online birth index will just say 2 for 2 years, 2 months, or maybe even 2 weeks; it's up to us to guess what they mean!

Alfred jr's death cert could well say "son of Alfred Bentall". Elizabeth's might say "widow of Alfred Bentall" or just "widow". But what Merry was talking about was that the "Informant" column will give the name of the person who actually registered the death, who may or may not be a relative, but very often was.

Interlocutory Decree seems to mean a temporary ruling while waiting for the final one. Admon is short for Administration and it means that permission was granted to administer the estate. You usually get Admon when there is no will, but also when there is a will but it is invalid.

[tpb]

I have ordered a copy of William Dyer Caddy's birth certificate,

The certificate arrived. William Dyer Caddy was born on 21 July 1839. His father was Thomas Caddy, occupation labourer. His mother was Jane Caddy, formerly Ackland. The 'signature, description and residence of informant' was 'Ann Dyer, female present at the birth 67 Chapel Street, Davenport' - although the street number is indistinct.

I think this Jane must be Elizabeth Ann's sister, and the witness, Ann Dyer, and at least partially corroborates connection to the Joseph Ackland who married Martha Dyer. Ann was probably either an aunt or a cousin. But the father was Thomas, not John, so this seems to rule out the Exeter family.

Tim

[kiterunner]

That's interesting. Glad to know we can definitely rule John and Jane out now!

[kiterunner]

I found Chapel Street, Devonport, on the 1841 census but it doesn't show house numbers and although there are some Dyers, there isn't an Ann, and no Caddys. Here is the link in case anyone wants to look through it, as I only searched rather than browsed:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8978/DEVHO107_271_274-0594/3994850?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=DEVHO107_271_274-0593

[kiterunner]

I was expecting William's father to be navy or something, not a labourer. Surely we should be able to find something on this family! Will have to look more tomorrow.

[kiterunner]

There is an Ann Dyer death Jan-Mar 1859 Stoke Damerel district, age 85, and this could be her on the 1851 census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/DEVHO107_1881_1882-0115/6749133?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
15 Ker St, Devonport
Ann Dyer Head W 76 Nurse Pyworthy Devon.

And this could be her in 1841 but it doesn't really help:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8978/ESSHO107_274_276-0139/4001507?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
Tamar Terrace, Stoke Damerel, Devonport
Mary Berryman 75 Ind N
...
Ann Dyer 65 FS Y.

[tpb]

Thank you, Kiterunner:

There is a record of a Thomas Caddy being baptised at Tiverton in 1803.
There are a few people named Ann Dyer and the one you picked is as likely as the others
A Johanna Jane Caddy died at Bideford in 1875.

Sadly, none of this helps locate Ellen Bentall, for better or worse, and the others are a distraction unless they provide a clue.

For me, not experienced in this stuff, the lack of any more information in the 1841 or 1851 census records is strange. I wonder if they all died in an epidemic, or emigrated. I have looked for information about both of those possibilities, but have not found anything useful.

Your comment about Thomas's occupation is worth a response. I am intrigued (?obsessed?) about the social aspects of this story. The marriage between Alfred Bentall and Elizabeth Ann Ackland was a real upstairs-downstairs liaison. Alfred's family were wealthy bankers and dominated local politics in Totnes. Her parents were servants in town and her sister Jane married a labourer, but probably took charge of Ellen after her sister's death.

I think about the linguistic issues. Alfred spoke 'King's English' at home, attended a naval college, and by the age of 23 was commanding a new state-of-the-art sailing brig on a voyage to the Philipines and back. Growing up in Totnes, he was probably fluent in the local Devonshire dialect, which was then even more unintelligible to non-locals than it was when I tried to understand it 40 years ago. She probably grew up with Devonshire as her first language, but understood and probably was able to speak 'proper', and may have been much better educated than the rest of her family, but how did they get together in London?.

Alfred's younger brother Francis was a successful solicitor and professional antiquarian (a proto-genealogist searching out the pedigrees of his illustrious 16th century ancestors). He was bigoted and snobbish and must have hated having to deal with the social embarrassments of Alfred's wife and children. So the admon he filed relating to Alfred's Will might be interesting. I plan to visit London in July and again in September, but have not had the experience of visiting the Kew archives, and am not sure if I will have time. (Are there researchers who would be happy to find that document for a modest fee?)
Tim

[kiterunner]

A Johanna Jane Caddy died at Bideford in 1875. That was Johanna Lane Caddy.

For me, not experienced in this stuff, the lack of any more information in the 1841 or 1851 census records is strange. I wonder if they all died in an epidemic, or emigrated. I have looked for information about both of those possibilities, but have not found anything useful. If they died in an epidemic then we should be able to find their death registrations, but I've searched and searched and come up with nothing. The reason I was expecting William's father to be in the navy was because it would mean the family would be likely to have moved around a lot.

(Are there researchers who would be happy to find that document for a modest fee?)
You could try someone from TNA's list?
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/irlist/default.asp?action=1&slctcatagoryid=24&x=48&y=22