James Parkin 1813

[CuriousKat]

Name - James Parkin
Date and place of birthLiversedge, Yorkshire appx 1813
Names of parents????? I would love to know
Date and place of baptism - ???
Details of each of his or her marriages - Ann Townend on 28/12/1834 in St Peter's Birstall, Yorkshire
Occupation(s) - Coal Miner
Addresses where they lived 1841/71 census records living in Batley, Can't make out 1841 census address, 1851, 45 Carlinghow, 1851, 102 Carlinghow, 1861 59 Victoria St.
Death - ???
Children - Judith 1835, Ellen 1838, Edwin 1841, Robert 1845, Susannah 1847, Martha 1849, Ann 1852 & Mary 1856.

[kiterunner]

Who were the witnesses to his marriage?

[kiterunner]

The 1841 census address looks like White Lee Gaol Houses. Looks as though the jail had closed a few decades previously so I guess had been converted to residential housing.

http://www.batleynews.co.uk/news/your-say/debtors-jail-once-stood-in-jail-road-1-3915340

[kiterunner]

Looking on the new online GRO birth index, which gives mother's maiden name even for the pre-1911 births, there is a Nathan registered Jul-Sep 1842 and a Sam Oct-Dec 1853 in addition to the children who you listed. Nathan's death was registered Apr-Jun 1849, age 6, and Sam's Oct-Dec 1854 age 10 (presumably months).

There is a James Parkin baptised 15 Sep 1816 at Birstall, parents Henry and Rachel. You could view the image on Findmypast to see whether the abode was Liversedge. But I would be more confident if your James had children named Henry and Rachel!

[CuriousKat]

Who were the witnesses to his marriage?

Looks like Joseph Woodcock & Jos???? does not look anything like the Joseph below it & no clue on the squiggle surname!

[CuriousKat]

2 of his children married after 1881 & he was not listed as deceased on the certificates yet i have not managed to find him on the 1881 census either!

[kiterunner]

There is a James Parkin death registered Jul-Sep 1878 Dewsbury, age 65. And Ann Parkin Apr-Jun 1876 Dewsbury, age 62.

[CuriousKat]

Looks like Joseph Woodcock & Jos???? does not look anything like the Joseph below it & no clue on the squiggle surname!

I found this survey of Liversedge 1803
on here is a Josa Charles Parkin

If you have a chance to look at the marriage certificate i think that could be the name of the second witness. What do you think?
** on second thoughts i'm talking rubbish..... ignore me ;-)**

[CuriousKat]

So cross with myself! I have been red herringed & completely gone down the wrong path!!
This is not my James Parkin family. I was following the ancestor Edwin Parkin b 1841 but mixed him up! He was actually born to John Parkin & Elizabeth Hall Woodhouse Leeds.
Though it would seem that Edwin is not acutally John's child! On the 1841 6th June census John & Elizabeth (whom married on the 25/12/1840) are living with John's parents in Woodhouse leeds, along with 2 children Edwin aged 1 year & Charles aged 4m! when Charles gets married in 1863 Edwin is a witness & the fathers name is Felins Nullins! presume that means no father???

I am so confused!

[kiterunner]

I think it will be "filius nullius", i.e. illegitimate child, yes.

[kiterunner]

I take it that Charles is Charles Henry Parkin whose birth was registered Jan-Mar 1841? Although if so, he doesn't have a middle name on the marriage index. The online GRO birth index has no mother's maiden name (MMN) for him, meaning that he was illegitimate.

I thought that Edwin's birth registration would be Edwin Hall Jul-Sep 1840 Leeds, but that one has MMN Gaunt. Have you found Edwin's birth registration, or was he maybe not registered? Does his marriage cert say that John Parkin was his father? (Of course marriage certs aren't always accurate.) Have you found a baptism for him?

[Merry]

I take it that Charles is Charles Henry Parkin whose birth was registered Jan-Mar 1841? Although if so, he doesn't have a middle name on the marriage index. The online GRO birth index has no mother's maiden name (MMN) for him, meaning that he was illegitimate.

So it's more likely the mother of Charles Henry Parkin is a daughter of the Parkin grandparents and not Elizabeth Hall?

Also, do we actually know that Elizabeth Hall was the mother of Edwin either? No relationships in 1841 and in 1851 he and Charles are listed as grandsons of John Parkin's mother, Mary Parkin, so, in theory, they could have been the sons of a dau or daughters of Mary Parkin (as Charles probably is), or the children of another of her sons (or two). They definitely don't have to be brothers. I couldn't see Edwin in 1861 to confirm or otherwise that John was his father/step-father.

EDIT: I've still not found Edwin in 1861, but Charles is with John Parkin (now re-married) and is listed as nephew, so it's looking like Charles was the child of an unmarried sister of John.

Charles and John in 1861:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/WRYRG9_3389_3391-0076?pid=10535651&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DRAw7307%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1861%26g ss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26 gsfn%3Dcharles%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Dparkin%26gsln _x%3D1%26msbdy%3D1841%26msbdy_x%3D1%26gskw%3Dleeds %26gskw_x%3D1%26cpxt%3D1%26cp%3D11%26catbucket%3Dr stp%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3D672%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D0%2 6h%3D10535651%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=RAw7307&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[Merry]

Which Edwin is yours in later censuses and who did he marry? Which of his children is your 2xg-grandparent?

Do you have Edwin's marriage cert and what information is given on it about his father?

[Merry]

Is this your Edwin aged 22 marrying in Leeds in 1861 to Mary Ellen Cooper born Guiseley?

Son of James Parkin a footman and witness Charles Parkin?

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2253/40361_249422-01348/22130240?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dRAw7330%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dwyorkcoemarriag e%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3dedwin%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dparkin%26gsln_x %3d1%26gskw%3dleeds%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3 d11%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3d672&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

I saw Mary Ellen on the 1871 census with son James aged 5, but no sign of Edwin and wondered if this was your family and him not being in the house was the reason you were finding Edwin difficult? I didn't look any more in case I was on the wrong track! :D

[kiterunner]

So it's more likely the mother of Charles Henry Parkin is a daughter of the Parkin grandparents and not Elizabeth Hall?

Also, do we actually know that Elizabeth Hall was the mother of Edwin either? No relationships in 1841 and in 1851 he and Charles are listed as grandsons of John Parkin's mother, Mary Parkin, so, in theory, they could have been the sons of a dau or daughters of Mary Parkin (as Charles probably is), or the children of another of her sons (or two). They definitely don't have to be brothers. I couldn't see Edwin in 1861 to confirm or otherwise that John was his father/step-father.

EDIT: I've still not found Edwin in 1861, but Charles is with John Parkin (now re-married) and is listed as nephew, so it's looking like Charles was the child of an unmarried sister of John.

Charles and John in 1861:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/WRYRG9_3389_3391-0076?pid=10535651&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DRAw7307%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1861%26g ss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26 gsfn%3Dcharles%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Dparkin%26gsln _x%3D1%26msbdy%3D1841%26msbdy_x%3D1%26gskw%3Dleeds %26gskw_x%3D1%26cpxt%3D1%26cp%3D11%26catbucket%3Dr stp%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3D672%26pcat%3D35%26fh%3D0%2 6h%3D10535651%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=RAw7307&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

Edwin is with a Hall couple in 1861, although it says boarder, so we don't know how he was related to them.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/WRYRG9_3394_3396-0232/10563011?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
Well, I assume it's him although it says Edward.

[CuriousKat]

Hello, yes my Edwin is the chap whom married Mary Ellen Cooper on 7/9/1861 he lists hos father as James Parkin Footman, which actually (blushes as i have not put this together before now) suggests that whom i thought was the grandfather was his father & his father was his uncle??
John Parkin had 2 sisters Rebecca Parkin b1815 & Elizabeth b1818
Though i think even that is incorrect as on the 1841 census his "mother" Mary was 50, probaly to old to be his mother making it more likely that he is one of her daughters children. They are transcribed as Turkin on ancestry. Charles is here to, i have not found birth or baptism records for either.
James Turkin
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1781
Gender: Male
Where born: Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Leeds Town
Hundred: Leeds Borough
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: Leeds West
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1348
Book: 4
Folio: 33
Page Number: 20
Household Members:
Name Age
James Turkin 60
Mary Turkin 50
Elizabeth Turkin 25
John Turkin 20
Elizabeth Turkin 15
Charles Rose 3
Edwin Turkin 1
Charles Turkin 4 Mo

[CuriousKat]

Which Edwin is yours in later censuses and who did he marry? Which of his children is your 2xg-grandparent?
James Lucas Parkin is my 2 x ggp & Edwin married Mary Ellen Cooper.

Do you have Edwin's marriage cert and what information is given on it about his father?
it is here, lists James as the father.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2253/40361_249422-01348/22130240?backurl=http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/73070063/person/36277856206/facts/citation/222036695278/edit/record

[Merry]

Kate

Just dashing out, bt Rebecca Parkin m Tho Hall 184-something and there was a Rebecca Parkin bap dau of James and Mary Parkin in the 18-teens to 1820 something (remembering from earlier plus that census you just posted.....

[CuriousKat]

Edwin is with a Hall couple in 1861, although it says boarder, so we don't know how he was related to them.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/WRYRG9_3394_3396-0232/10563011?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
Well, I assume it's him although it says Edward.

I have found him listed as Edward before. I thought the Hall might be Elizabeth's father but going by the wedding certificate it does not seem likely. I would have to check out the family connection.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2253/32355_249416-00111/6743735?backurl=http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/108542387/person/150069879043/facts/citation/600265031695/edit/record

[CuriousKat]

Kate

Just dashing out, bt Rebecca Parkin m Tho Hall 184-something and there was a Rebecca Parkin bap dau of James and Mary Parkin in the 18-teens to 1820 something (remembering from earlier plus that census you just posted.....
Oh my gosh yes!!!! I just posted thinking it wasn't connected but i was thinking of Elizabeth's father, not it being related to Rebecca!

[CuriousKat]

I will be back shortly, i have left the children with their electronic childminders & i need to put away washing mountain! Which i can assure you holds far less appeal than this! ;-)

[Merry]

Sorry Ckat, I missed yr prev post, so didn't see you mentioned Rebecca already! Am just walking along the road now, so not best placed for searching, but was just wondering about the coverage fir Leeds baps? Perhaps Edwin was bap somewhere we've not seen yet?

[Merry]

Electronic childminders!! lol

[kiterunner]

Though i think even that is incorrect as on the 1841 census his "mother" Mary was 50, probaly to old to be his mother making it more likely that he is one of her daughters children. They are transcribed as Turkin on ancestry.

The 1841 census doesn't give relationships. On the 1851 census, John is Mary's son and Edwin is her grandson.

[kiterunner]

Hello, yes my Edwin is the chap whom married Mary Ellen Cooper on 7/9/1861 he lists hos father as James Parkin Footman, which actually (blushes as i have not put this together before now) suggests that whom i thought was the grandfather was his father & his father was his uncle??


Illegitimate children quite often gave their grandfather's name as their father on their marriage certificate rather than say they were illegitimate.

The James Parkin on the 1841 census is a labourer, though, not a footman.

[CuriousKat]

Illegitimate children quite often gave their grandfather's name as their father on their marriage certificate rather than say they were illegitimate.

The James Parkin on the 1841 census is a labourer, though, not a footman.

I don't think he was a footman, gentleman servant or Yeoman much past his 1st daughters baptism after that he is down as a labourer for his other 2 children i wonder if the family were clinging to times gone past?

[Merry]

So, are we saying at the moment we believe Edwin was the grandson of James and Mary but we are not sure who his parents were?

[kiterunner]

Sounds right to me.

[CuriousKat]

Yes i think we are! would you like me to change the original post details to reflect that?
Thank you so much for your help in finding it out. I hate unanswered questions though drives me potty! Who really were his parents? Were Edwin & Charles brothers or cousins?

[kiterunner]

Yes i think we are! would you like me to change the original post details to reflect that?


I don't think there's much point doing that until we have a name for one of the parents!

[Merry]

My feeling is that Elizabeth Parkin (dau of James and Mary) is the mother of Charles aged 3 months in 1841. This could be established by getting his birth cert. However, we can't say that makes her the mother of Edwin as well.

How many sisters did Elizabeth have? Was there just Rebecca? As we know, Edwin was a boarder in Rebecca's home in 1861 but we can't say because Thomas Hall didn't say 'step-son' that Edwin wasn't Rebecca's child.

[Merry]

Have you found Edwin in 1871?.... and what happened to him (and his wife) after that?

[CuriousKat]

My feeling is that Elizabeth Parkin (dau of James and Mary) is the mother of Charles aged 3 months in 1841. This could be established by getting his birth cert. However, we can't say that makes her the mother of Edwin as well.

How many sisters did Elizabeth have? Was there just Rebecca? As we know, Edwin was a boarder in Rebecca's home in 1861 but we can't say because Thomas Hall didn't say 'step-son' that Edwin wasn't Rebecca's child.

Rebecca is here in 1901 & with Charles whom lists her as his aunt, which would tie in with the theory that Elizabeth is the mother,

[CuriousKat]

Have you found Edwin in 1871?.... and what happened to him (and his wife) after that?

No idea for sure, rumour is he left Mary Ellen around the time of Alfred's birth 1866 ish he was involved with a chap called ?? Irwin & his business went bankrupt, family law is that Edwin was responsible & fled to America. :eek:

[kiterunner]

This could be a red herring, but the West Yorkshire Bastardy Records on ancestry have an entry for an Elizabeth Perkin of Leeds, receiving money in 1841:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2582/41440_1831101881_1454-00127/32176?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
It looks as though a John Whitehead is the father of the child.

Can't remember whether this one has been mentioned, but there is the baptism of a John Henry, son of Elizabeth Parkin of Woodhouse, spinster, born 1 May 1837 and baptised 4 Jun 1837 at Leeds St Peter:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2252/32355_249396-00103/7964272?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dWYorkCoEBaptism%26gss%3dsfs28 _ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3 d1%26msbdy%3d1842%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26msmn g%3deli*%26msmng_x%3d1%26msmns%3dp%253F%253Fkin%26 msmns_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Then a Frances, daughter of Elizabeth Parkin of Silver Street, spinster, is born 23 Oct 1838 and baptised 11 Nov 1838, also at Leeds St Peter:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2252/32355_249396-00563/7971263?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dWYorkCoEBaptism%26gss%3dsfs28 _ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3 d1%26msbdy%3d1842%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26msmn g%3deli*%26msmng_x%3d1%26msmns%3dp%253F%253Fkin%26 msmns_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Merry]

Rebecca is here in 1901 & with Charles whom lists her as his aunt, which would tie in with the theory that Elizabeth is the mother,

Oh, that's good! Just typical he isn't the one you need the most!!

No idea for sure, rumour is he left Mary Ellen around the time of Alfred's birth 1866 ish he was involved with a chap called ?? Irwin & his business went bankrupt, family law is that Edwin was responsible & fled to America. :eek:

Interesting!

[CuriousKat]

This could be a red herring, but the West Yorkshire Bastardy Records on ancestry have an entry for an Elizabeth Perkin of Leeds, receiving money in 1841:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2582/41440_1831101881_1454-00127/32176?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
It looks as though a John Whitehead is the father of the child.

Can't remember whether this one has been mentioned, but there is the baptism of a John Henry, son of Elizabeth Parkin of Woodhouse, spinster, born 1 May 1837 and baptised 4 Jun 1837 at Leeds St Peter:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2252/32355_249396-00103/7964272?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dWYorkCoEBaptism%26gss%3dsfs28 _ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3 d1%26msbdy%3d1842%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26msmn g%3deli*%26msmng_x%3d1%26msmns%3dp%253F%253Fkin%26 msmns_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Then a Frances, daughter of Elizabeth Parkin of Silver Street, spinster, is born 23 Oct 1838 and baptised 11 Nov 1838, also at Leeds St Peter:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2252/32355_249396-00563/7971263?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dWYorkCoEBaptism%26gss%3dsfs28 _ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3 d1%26msbdy%3d1842%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26msmn g%3deli*%26msmng_x%3d1%26msmns%3dp%253F%253Fkin%26 msmns_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

These are really interesting, it does not look like Elizabeth ever married. I have not found her after 1841 if she is the mother she seems a bit free & easy! :p

[kiterunner]

We don't know for sure whether those are all the same Elizabeth, though.

[CuriousKat]

We don't know for sure whether those are all the same Elizabeth, though. Why is nothing ever so easy! :confused:

[CuriousKat]

Could you possibly see if you could find some details about James Lucas Parkin (son of Edwin) he was incarcerated around the time of the 1881 census , but i can't find any details.
I found this record on FMP
James Parkin — 1882 — HO27 Home Office: Criminal Registers, England And Wales, 1805-1892 but it gives no information (so i've been told as i don't have a subscription) i've tried TNA website but being thick i couldn't see anything! My aunt mentioned Preston jail but i couldn't seem to find it on the census. There are some references on ancestry but i can't 100% tie them to him.
Seems like the apple didn't fall very far from the tree!

[kiterunner]

This could be him on the 1881 census:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LANRG11_4264_4268-1028/12030078?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

Lancaster Gaol, Lancaster
James Parkin Prisoner Unmarried 15 Stable Boy Yorkshire Leeds.

[Merry]

I haven't been able to find anything about James (1865) and his conviction as yet, so turned my attention to what happened to his father. Haven't got very far as yet, but following on from what you mentioned:

Rumour is he left Mary Ellen around the time of Alfred's birth 1866 ish he was involved with a chap called ?? Irwin & his business went bankrupt, family law is that Edwin was responsible & fled to America

I have found the bankruptcy notice, but his partner has a different name:

The London Gazette Sept 8th 1868

Notice is hereby given, that that the Partnership heretofore subsisting between us the undersigned Wilson Hargrave and Edwin Parkin, of Leeds, in the County of York, lately carrying on business there, in copartnership, as Bricklayers, under the style or firm of Hargrave and Parkin was, on the 1st day of February, dissolved by mutual consent. - Dated this 4th day of September 1868.
Wilson Hargrave
Edwin Parkin.

[Merry]

Here's part of a post from another forum:

Edwin Parkin Born 1840, marr. Mary Ellen Cooper of Guiseley. Builder by trade and in partnership with Geo.Irwin and son Wm.Irwin. Geo. Irwin was married to Sarah Cooper, Mary Ellen's sister. Wm. later founded the building firm of Wm.Irwin & Son,Burley Rd. Edwin Parkin left his wife and family after the birth of son Alfred Edwin Oct.1866. Rumour has it that he got into difficulties with the business and went to America. Would like to hear from anyone with 'Parkin' connections.

I see George and Sarah seem to have split up fairly early in their marriage (only together in 1861). Eventually George says he is a widower (in 1901) but Sarah was still alive at that date.

As yet I've not been able to find anything about the partnership between Edwin and George. I imagine the partnership was with George as Wm would only have been about 20 when Edwin's partnership with Wilson Hargrave was dissolved and I would imagine any other partnership would have to have been earlier, to allow time for Edwin to vanish!

[CuriousKat]

This could be him on the 1881 census:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LANRG11_4264_4268-1028/12030078?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

Lancaster Gaol, Lancaster
James Parkin Prisoner Unmarried 15 Stable Boy Yorkshire Leeds.

Seems to be a good match, a quick look at Lancs archive & the website turns up no details though.

[CuriousKat]

Here's part of a post from another forum:



I see George and Sarah seem to have split up fairly early in their marriage (only together in 1861). Eventually George says he is a widower (in 1901) but Sarah was still alive at that date.

As yet I've not been able to find anything about the partnership between Edwin and George. I imagine the partnership was with George as Wm would only have been about 20 when Edwin's partnership with Wilson Hargrave was dissolved and I would imagine any other partnership would have to have been earlier, to allow time for Edwin to vanish!

It all sounds very convoluted & murky! I'd have thought there would of been something in the papers, but can't see anything! I had a quick look at newspapers.com for Edwin, but it's a tricky site (for me!) to navigate & nothing obvious jumped out.

[kiterunner]

I don't think newspapers.com is the best site for UK newspapers - try the British Newspaper Archive.

[CuriousKat]

I don't think newspapers.com is the best site for UK newspapers - try the British Newspaper Archive.
I was looking for Edwin in America, i couldn't see anything in the papers here.

[CuriousKat]

Nothing to do with the subject but this tickled me being as today is valentines day!
Louisa is the daughter of John Parkin & Sarah Gaines (the second wife) anyhow she married a Pickering & this is their son

Name Valen Charles Pickering
Birth Date 14 Feb 1889
Date of Registration Dec 1975
Age at Death 86
Registration district Sheffield
Inferred County South Yorkshire

[CuriousKat]

Hello me again! ( i hear you all groan ;-) )
I am now turning my attention to the Coopers! Mary Ellen wife of Edwin.
I am fairly sure that the father's name on Mary Ellen's wedding certificate ... William Cooper, Farmer is incorrect! We know that on the 1871 census Mary Ellen has her niece Esther Busfield staying with her, Esther is the daughter of Eliza Cooper whom married Charles Busfield in Otley 24/5/18/58. There is a Cooper family on the 1841 census in Yeadon, born in Guiseley.
John Cooper 49
Mary Cooper 46
William Cooper 16
Grace Cooper 13
Sarah Cooper 12
Eliza Cooper 7
Mary Cooper 4

Eliza puts down John Cooper as her father clothier, though he's not listed as deceased though i think he died in 1850, the family are scattered by 1851
Sarah married George Irwin in 1859 she also lists John Cooper, farmer as her father though again not deceased. Are these inconsistencies down to the wrong family or the family telling porky pies? This family has gotten me so confused it's unreal, i have no idea where to start unraveling them.

[kiterunner]

I know you already have these, but for reference:

Here is the marriage cert:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2253/40361_249422-01348/22130240?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

Mary Ellen Cooper, 23, abode Headingley, father William Cooper, father. Witnesses are Charles Parkin and Sarah Dodgson.

And 1871 census:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/WRYRG10_4303_4306-0438/25473879?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
10, Tarn, Baildon, Yorkshire
Mary Ellen Parkin Head Mar 33 Worsted Weaver Yorkshire Guiseley
James J Do Son 5 Scholar Do Leeds
Esther Busfield Niece 13 Worsted Spinner Do Guiseley.

Mary in 1861 as a servant in Headingley:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/WRYRG9_3352_3354-0187/10381924?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

and in 1851 as a servant in Baildon:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/YRKHO107_2285_2286-0018/13906641?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

And this is the family you found in 1841:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/WRYHO107_1312_1313-0555/14834497?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return
Mill Lane, Yeadon, Yorkshire
John Cooper 49 Clothier J Y
Mary Do 46 Y
William Do 16 Clothier J Y
Grace Do 13 Y
Sarah Do 12 Y
Eliza Do 7 Y
Mary Do 4 Y.

[kiterunner]

Mary Ellen Cooper birth registered Jul-Sep 1837 Otley (which was the district for Guiseley), MMN Waddington.

[kiterunner]

And a baptism for Mary Ellen Cooper 10 Sep 1837 at Guiseley, daughter of John and Mary Cooper of Guiseley, father's occupation Clothier:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2252/32355_249476-00285/8725409?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3diNh5264%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dwyorkcoebaptism %26so%3d2%26pcat%3d34%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dmary%252 0el*n*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dcooper%26gsln_x%3d1%2 6msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26MSAV%3d2%26MS_AdvCB%3d1 %26msbdy%3d1839%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3 drstp&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

It looks as though you are right and the William Cooper, farmer, is wrong.

[kiterunner]

And here is John Cooper's marriage to Mary Waddington, 21 Mar 1815 at Guiseley:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2253/32355_249477-00089/18684648?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

[CuriousKat]

Do you think it was a genuine error on the certificate or a something else? I know it's tricky to say for certain.

[kiterunner]

Don't know, sorry.