Who Do You Think You Are - Greg Davies 1st Feb

[kiterunner]

On BBC1 at 8 p.m., and repeated next Tuesday at 11:40 p.m. Then there is no new episode next week because of football. :mad:

[Nell]

I quite enjoyed this one.

[ElizabethHerts]

I really enjoyed it. It was very encouraging to know that sometimes the brick walls involving illegitimacy can be broken down.

The meeting with his grandfather's daughter could have been tricky, but it was obvious that he was a difficult man.

[Guinevere]

I really enjoyed it as well. It showed how useful newspaper articles can be.

[Lynn the Forest Fan]

I really enjoyed this episode. He came over really well, the research was in a different area to others and the scenery was lovely.

[Zoemcdougall]

I really enjoyed this episode, I spent alot of my childhood around Porthmadoc,and going on the little train, my kids watched it with interest, as they too spent time in Porthmadog, when they go to visit my parents in North Wales.

[Ann from Sussex]

I'm not a fan of Greg Davies as a comedian, actor or panel show member so I was surprised to find myself really liking him as.....Greg Davies! He came across as really nice, thoughtful, kind and full of good humour. In fact, I thought the whole family were; I loved his meeting with his cousin when they both dissolved into laughter over the made-up father on the marriage certificate and then his delight at discovering there really WAS a butcher! I also enjoyed seeing the beautiful North Wales countryside again. We spent our honeymoon there and then had many happy family holidays there.

I know how useful old newspapers can be in such cases. It was only last year that I discovered, through local newspaper reports, that my own grandfather had an illegitimate daughter before he met my grandmother. The court ordered him to pay 2/6d a week maintenance, which I imagine, must have been a lot of money for a 19 year old to find in 1901. It was a big shock to realise I had had an aunt I knew nothing about. Greg was luckier than me as his gt grandfather's daughter was happy to meet him. I have traced my half-aunt's descendants but they don't want to know, unfortunately.

[James18]

I can imagine he was a great drama teacher, but I agree with Ann re his television work.

[kiterunner]

Episode summary:

Greg Davies's father died a couple of years ago, and Greg didn't know much about that side of his family. He went to visit his mother in Shropshire, and she showed him some family photos and documents, including the birth certificate of Greg's maternal grandmother Edith Thomas, born 13 Jun 1904 at 56 Snowdon Street, Portmadoc (Porthmadog), mother Elizabeth Thomas a domestic servant, father's details not filled in. Greg's mother said that Elizabeth later married David Jones, but that he wasn't Edith's father. Edith had a full sister Rebecca and Elizabeth then went on to have three daughters and two sons by David Jones.

Greg went to see his father's cousin, Rebecca's daughter Veona, in Mold. She showed him Rebecca's birth certificate, birth date 4 Apr 1907, mother Elizabeth Thomas a domstic servant, father's name blank. Veona said that Edith and Rebecca were brought up by Elizabeth's mother at 56 Snowdon Street. Edith's marriage certificate stated that her father was David Thomas, a butcher, but Veona thought this was made up.

Greg went to Caernarvon to look at Porthmadog records. The archivist showed him a newspaper clipping dated 14 May 1907 which said that William Owen of New Street was ordered to pay maintenance for the children of Elizabeth Thomas of Snowdon Street. The court records showed that the bastardy case was later brought back to court because William hadn't paid, and that he was ordered to pay by installments of 5 shillings, the first to be paid within 1 month or he would be sent to prison for 14 days. William had claimed to have no money.

Greg went to Porthmadog to meet a local researcher, who showed him more mentions of William Owen in the newspapers. In 1901 William Owen, a butcher, from Bank Place, was charged with being drunk in charge of a horse and cart. In 1906 William fell and seriously injured his leg in an accident on Mount Snowdon.

The researcher also showed him William's birth certificate - born on the 28th Jan 1877, the son of Evan Owen, a farmer, and Elizabeth Owen nee Jones, registered at Tremadoc. The 1881 census showed William at 11 Bank Place with his grandparents Robert and Elizabeth Jones. Robert was a butcher.

Greg went to Tremadoc and met an historian who showed him Evan and Elizabeth's marriage certificate, dated 8 Jan 1875, and Elizabeth's death certificate, which showed that she died on the 5th Feb 1877, age 19, 9 days after giving birth to William. A marriage certificate showed that Evan remarried, to a Martha Parry, on the 15th Sep 1879. A newspaper clipping from 1902 said that Mr Evan Jones was elected a deacon at Peniel Chapel in Nantmor. Greg visited the chapel and met another historian who showed him the 1891 census entry for Evan, Martha, and their children, but William wasn't with them.

A newspaper article dated 3 Aug 1920 reported that Mr Evan Owen and Mrs Ann Hughes had drowned in an accident when their horse and cart fell into the flooded river. Greg visited the place where it happened and was told that the story is well-known locally.

Greg then went to Snowdon Street in Porthmadog to see the house where Edith and Rebecca were born. A local researcher showed him the 1907 birth certificate of Elizabeth Owen, the daughter of William Owen, butcher, and Martha Owen formerly Williams. They went to see where the butcher's shop used to be, in the High Street, and Greg was shown a newspaper article about the auction in 1907 of the estate of the late Mrs Jones, butcher, of 11 Bank Place. Another newspaper report from 1910 said that William Owen was sentenced to 14 days in prison for non-payment of his maintenance debt, by then at £16.

The 1911 census showed William in Stanleytown, Glamorgan, with wife Martha and their children Bessie (Elizabeth) and Robert. William's occupation was now colliery labourer. Greg went to see the house where they had lived in Stanleytown, and found out that William's youngest daughter, Meirionwen, born in 1928, was still alive. He went to meet his half-great-aunt Meirionwen, who hadn't known about Edith and Rebecca and didn't think that Martha knew about them either. Meirionwen said that William and Martha had six boys and three girls.

William died in 1941, and Greg went to visit his grave in Tylerstown Cemetery. He then went back to North Wales, to Cwm Mawr, the farm where Evan lived as a young man. He met another relative, Alwen, who said that the Owen family had lived at that farm as far back as 1660, and showed him a photo of Evan with his wife and daughters. An obituary of Evan said that he had a "mischievous or comic talent". A report on the sale of the farmland in 1897 said that the Owen family were descended from Owain Gwynedd, the first Prince of Wales, who lived in the 12th century. Greg went to a pub called the Prince of Wales, where he met many other descendants of Owain Gwynedd.

[kiterunner]

A nice episode. I would like to know whether David Jones (Edith's stepfather) was also a butcher, as it is quite common for father's name on a marriage certificate to be made up of stepfather's first name and the bride or groom's surname, with the stepfather's occupation given, probably because they would be asked "Father's name and occupation?" and would say "David, a butcher" (for example) without giving his surname, and the vicar, registrar, or clerk would assume that the surname was the same.

I also wanted to look at the probate on Evan Owen's estate to see whether William was an executor, given all the assumptions about Evan and William being estranged, but it was an admon - Adminstration London 8 Nov 1920 to Martha Owen, widow.

[kiterunner]

This must be Rebecca on the 1911 census; not found Edith yet. But it doesn't look from this as though they were brought up by Elizabeth's mother at Snowdon Street.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2353/rg14_34324_0267_06/1054596?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911Wales%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_ db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsln%3dth o*%26gsln_x%3d1%26msbdy%3d1906%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msb dp%3d2%26gskw%3dport*mado*%26gskw_x%3d1%26_8300400 3-n_xcl%3dm%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Penrhyndeudraeth, Merionethshire
Mary Jane Hughes 42 Widow Charwoman
.
.
Becca Thomas Boarder 4 Carnarvonshire Portmadoc
.
.

[Ann from Sussex]

My m-i-l's mother's marriage certificate gives the name of her mother's husband as her father which all seems normal and above board, given that she married under his surname. Nothing ever suggested this man wasn't her father ..... until we started looking at family history. She was born 6 years before her mother and the man the family always knew as her father married and for a long time, as a child, she went by her mother's maiden name. At the time of her birth her mother was 21 and he would only have been 15. I know it's biologically possible but it has left a lot of doubt as to whether he really was OH's gt grandfatherfather!

[kiterunner]

This is 56 Snowdon Street in 1911 but a Jones family is living there:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2353/rg14_34350_0269_06/938339?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3diNh3995%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3d1911Wales%26gss %3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gskw%3dport*mad*%2520snowdon%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3 d2%26uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d 20%26fsk%3dBEJmZmYIgAAJMQALC0s-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=rg14_34350_ 0267_06

[kiterunner]

My m-i-l's mother's marriage certificate gives the name of her mother's husband as her father which all seems normal and above board, given that she married under his surname. Nothing ever suggested this man wasn't her father ..... until we started looking at family history. She was born 6 years before her mother and the man the family always knew as her father married and for a long time, as a child, she went by her mother's maiden name. At the time of her birth her mother was 21 and he would only have been 15. I know it's biologically possible but it has left a lot of doubt as to whether he really was OH's gt grandfatherfather!

Sounds pretty unlikely that he was.

[Ann from Sussex]

Sounds pretty unlikely that he was

That's what we thought! He was obviously the perfect step-father though as OH's grandmother adopted his surname and, when he died he was buried in the same grave as her first two husbands (she had three) with the inscription "my beloved father......" We did think it was a bit odd to bury him with her husbands though, I must say!

[Shona]

Rather liked Greg's episode. His ex-partner is on old friend of mine.