Robert Knowles and Mary Buckley Newton

[ElizabethHerts]

This couple is giving me headaches.

They married in 1820 at Almondbury:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2253/32355_248868-00836/18210944?backurl=http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/9859/person/24901374532/facts

I have found a son called Anthony born to Robert and Mary Buckley Knowles in Huddersfield in 1828:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2252/32355_248910-00817/3933426?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dWYorkCoEBaptism%26gss%3dsfs28 _ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsln%3dkno wles%26gsln_x%3d0%26msfng%3dRobert%26MSAV%3d1%26ui dh%3dho3&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

They are living at Rashcliff and Robert Knowles is given as an Ivory Black Manufacturer. This isn't very far from Almondbury.

I have also found other children.
There is this Methodist baptism for Catherine:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=tna%2frg4%2f4677%2f0%2f0374&parentid=tna%2frg4%2fbap%2f1477645
Robert is a druggist.
I know this is the correct couple as it give Mary Buckley Knowles' parents as John and Hannah Newton.

Other children are mentioned here:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2960/40364_636672_2311-00108/844891?backurl=http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/9859/person/48579144415/facts

This is for Holy Trinity, Shaw, which is near Oldham.
Catherine is repeated, then Margaret Buckley, Sarah Buckley and Joseph.

However, I'm struggling to find the family on censuses.

In 1851 Robert, Mary and Sarah are here:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/LANHO107_2243_2243-0535?pid=11817151&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?db%3Duki1851%26indiv%3Dtry%26h%3D11817151&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true

Mary's age is rather suspect as her mother died in 1798.
I can't find them in 1841.

Margaret Buckley Knowles died in 1852.
Sarah Buckley Knowles seems to have married a younger man, John Holgate.

I can't find out what happened to Robert Knowles and Mary Buckley Knowles.
There is a burial for a Mary Buckley Knowles, which for a long time I though might be the wife, but now I have the facility to check it is this girl:

KNOWLES, MARY BUCKLEY age 1
GRO Reference: 1858 J Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 412

KNOWLES, MARY BUCKLEY PAULDEN
GRO Reference: 1857 J Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 539 birth

and she is the daughter of Anthony and his wife Elizabeth.
Anthony went to Ontario, it seems.


I'm puzzled by the completely different occupation for Anthony's baptism too.

[kiterunner]

Mary Buckley Knowles died in 1852.

Do you mean Margaret?

[kiterunner]

1841 census:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/LANHO107_580_580-0380/6205384?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

[ElizabethHerts]

Do you mean Margaret?

Yes, sorry!

[kiterunner]

I'm puzzled by the completely different occupation for Anthony's baptism too.

I guess he started out making one kind of chemical product (ivory black) and moved onto making pills? I think dispensing chemists / druggists did make their own pills in those days.

[ElizabethHerts]

1841 census:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/LANHO107_580_580-0380/6205384?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

Thanks for that, Kate. I don't know why I didn't find it.

I'll have a look for the other children.

[ElizabethHerts]

I think this is Catherine in 1841:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8978/LANHO107_545_546-0133?pid=5560785&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DlES4685%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-c%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26gsfn%3DCatherin e%2520%26gsfn_x%3D0%26gsln%3DKnowles%26gsln_x%3D0% 26msbdy%3D1824%26msbpn__ftp%3DYorkshire,%2520Engla nd%26msbpn%3D5292%26msbpn_PInfo%3D7-%257C0%257C0%257C3257%257C3251%257C0%257C0%257C0%2 57C5292%257C0%257C0%257C0%257C%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3 Dho3%26pcat%3D1841UKI%26h%3D5560785%26recoff%3D8%2 5209%26dbid%3D8978%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D4&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=lES4685&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
She is with a druggist.

[kiterunner]

I find it useful to use the free search on UK Census Online to look through the occupations and then I know what to look for on ancestry. This is Robert and Mary in 1861:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/LANRG9_3028_3033-0867/14697277?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

[kiterunner]

Since they are in Butterworth in 1861, Robert's death could be the one listed on Lancashire BMD 1868 in Butterworth Lordship sub-district, age 69. It is Rochdale district on FreeBMD, Jan-Mar quarter 1868, vol 8e, p 3.

[ElizabethHerts]

Mary is still lying about her age, as her mother Hannah Newton, maiden name Buckley, died in 1798! However, I have never found a baptism for her. I suspect Hannah died in childbirth.

[ElizabethHerts]

Since they are in Butterworth in 1861, Robert's death could be the one listed on Lancashire BMD 1868 in Butterworth Lordship sub-district, age 69. It is Rochdale district on FreeBMD, Jan-Mar quarter 1868, vol 8e, p 3.

Thanks, Kate.

It's odd how the census searches didn't show up on FMP, nor easily on Ancestry.

[kiterunner]

Thanks, Kate.

It's odd how the census searches didn't show up on FMP, nor easily on Ancestry.

I don't know. If I search the 1861 census on ancestry with name Robert Knowles, born 1799 (from age on 1851 census) at Wainfleet All Saints, Lincolnshire, England (because I had to select from the dropdown list and there wasn't one for just Wainfleet, Lincolnshire), lived in Lancashire, England, spouse Mary, with "Match all terms exactly" left unticked, the correct entry comes top of the list.

[kiterunner]

Mary has taken over the business in 1871, still in Butterworth:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LANRG10_4110_4113-0314/18189684?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

[kiterunner]

And Lancs BMD has a Mary Knowles death in 1874, Butterworth Freehold sub-district, age 73, which is Jan-Mar 1874 Rochdale district on FreeBMD.

[kiterunner]

This looks interesting if it is the same family:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/0afa9efd-d3a2-478f-b349-e47c7cac15d4

Was there a Robert jr and an Andrew?

[ElizabethHerts]

So it looks as if she was buried at Shaw:

First name(s) MARY
Last name KNOWLES
Birth year 1800
Death year 1874
Age 74
Burial year 1874
Burial day 10
Burial month 3
Place SHAW
Church description HOLY TRINITY
Church denomination ANGLICAN
County Lancashire
Country England
Record set National Burial Index for England & Wales

[ElizabethHerts]

This looks interesting if it is the same family:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/0afa9efd-d3a2-478f-b349-e47c7cac15d4

Was there a Robert jr and an Andrew?

Very interesting, Kate.

The first child I have is Catherine in 1824, and as Robert and Mary married in 1820 I wonder if there are earlier children.

[kiterunner]

Oh, if Mary is the one buried at Shaw, then she is the one in the National Probate Calendar. I hadn't looked Milnrow up when I saw it before but now I see it was in Butterworth.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1904/31874_222809-00311/41228?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2 fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dUKProbateCal%26gss%3dsfs28_ms _db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1% 26gsfn%3dmary%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dknowles%26gsln _x%3d1%26_81004261__int%3d1874%26_81004261__int_x% 3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Edit - I see you mentioned John Holgate in your original post, but I had forgotten about him!

[ElizabethHerts]

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000076%2f18680204%2f021

Robert died in church.


http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000310%2f18680208%2f049
first column

Oooh, thanks for the probate.
Mary Buckley Knowles is the sister (quite a bit younger) of OH's 3x-great-grandfather, Joseph Newton.

[ElizabethHerts]

Catherine Knowles married Jonathan Mallelieu Clifton in 1849 in the Rochdale district.

Here they are in 1851. Catherine's brother Joseph is living with them:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbc%2f1851%2f0014154023