View Full Version : William Moloney 1840 Queen's Ireland
Hi All,
I am looking for any information on my children's ancestor:
William Moloney, son of James Moloney, was born Roman Catholic in Laois, in Ireland, in about 1840 and Elizabeth or Eliza Higgins Queens, born possibly 1852. see more info below
William left Ireland in 1860 and went to Australia. He had 4 years in Australian Goldfields then migrated to New Zealand. Arriving Wairoa in 1866.
He married Elizabeth Higgins in Wairoa NZ (Possible arrival NZ - Forfarshire Ship left London 1872 and arrived 2 March 1873 Colonial Nominated Single Women Higgins Eliza 18 Queens Dressmaker)
Possible birth 1904-52= 1852 from BMDeath NZ: 1904/1583 Moloney Elizabeth 52Y Obituary 13th August 1904
They married in Aug 1873 and had a family of 11 children:
They had Alice Moloney in 1874, Elizabeth Moloney in 1876, Annie Elizabeth in 1878, William Travis Moloney in 1879, Bridget Moloney in 1880, James Lawrence Moloney in 1881. Edith in 1884, Margaret Geneive in 1886, John Michael in 1887, Francis Edward in 1889, Lawrence in 1892- 1819.
His record for his time on the Wairoa Harbour Board Reads:
MR. WILLIAM MOLONEY, J.P., member of the Wairoa Harbour Board, was for several years a member of the Wairoa County Council, was chairman of the council when the Wairoa bridge was completed, and in his official capacity declared it open for traffic in the year 1887. He has also been chairman of the Harbour Board, and was a member of the old Town Board and other public bodies.
He was born in Queen's County, Ireland, in 1840, is the son of Mr. James Moloney, and was educated and brought up to farming in his native county.
Mr. Moloney left the Old Land in 1860 for Melbourne, and spent four years on the New South Wales gold-field, and two years on the Otago and Westland fields.
He settled in Wairoa in the year 1866, on a farm near his present holding, and had the misfortune to be turned off in 1869 by Te Kooti. He then joined the Wairoa Rifles, and was present at the Lake Waikare-Moana skirmishes. In 1872 Mr. Moloney started business as a storekeeper in Wairoa, where he has been very successful.
He has taken an active interest in public and social matters generally, and was one of the founders of the Roman Catholic Church in Wairoa.
I'd love to find out where in Laois he was from although I found a record of a James Molone in Clarahill Clonaslee in a parish donation history of 1810.
Any help researching tracking family and origins would be much appreciated.
I am aware there are 42 different ways to spell Moloney.
I'd also love more info on Elizabeth/Eliza Higgins. Could it have been an arranged marriage as William had been overseas for 13 years?
Thanks
Glen NZ
kiterunner
13-01-17, 07:03
Welcome to the forum, Glen.
Could this be a possible for William's baptism? The first name is obscured by a blot but will try to make it out a bit later:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/04205_11_0051/283538?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dIrelandCatholicParish%26gss%3 dsfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1 %26msbdy%3d1840%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26msfng% 3dja*s%26msfng_x%3d1%26msfns%3dm*l*n*%26msfns_x%3d 1%26gskw%3dlaois%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3d vm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
23 May 1841 at Rosenallis, ???? of James Malone & Anne Foy, sponsors Francis & Eliza Cullen, abode Meelick.
Thanks Kite,
I am astounded at the speed in which you turned up a catholic register and found and entry. And then it took me forever to create a sign in to ancestry - fish into spam blocker and pull out a new password etc.
I have no idea if this is the James Moloney? Molone born possibly 1820s. Have no idea of his wife's name. What does "sponsors Francis & Eliza Cullen" mean?
I have just bitten the bullet and ordered NZ death certificates to see if this helps with locating parental names.
And google Meelick as a place in Queen's. Good tracking anyway.
Many thanks
Glen
kiterunner
13-01-17, 07:58
Here is another child of the same parents but again, the first name is really hard to make out:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/04205_11_0056/283880?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3diNh2625%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dIrelandCatholic Parish%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d18 40%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26msfng%3dja*s%26msfn g_x%3d1%26msfns%3dm*l*n*%26msfns_x%3d1%26gskw%3dla ois*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d% 26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d20%26fsk%3dBEFPXCgIgADub wBwz1E-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Mar 1844 ??????? of James Malone & Anne Fahy, sponsors Michael & Anne Dunne, abode Meelick.
Sponsors = godparents.
If William was born in 1840 then his father was most likely born before the 1820's.
Here is another possible baptism for William, and this time the surname is Molony and first name is definitely William, so a better fit!
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/04202_02_0041/1128282?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3diNh2625%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dIrelandCatholic Parish%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d18 40%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26msfng%3dja*s%26msfn g_x%3d1%26msfns%3dm*l*n*%26msfns_x%3d1%26gskw%3dla ois*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d% 26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d30%26fsk%3dBEFPXCgIgADub wB148k-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
7 Mar 1840 Stradbally
Wm, of Jas Molony & Alicia Doran, sponsors Buckley and Cahill, abode Ballycoolin.
Edit - mother's name fits with your William's eldest daughter.
kiterunner
13-01-17, 08:07
I have just bitten the bullet and ordered NZ death certificates to see if this helps with locating parental names.
Good idea. Let us know when they arrive!
"7 Mar 1840 Stradbally
Wm, of Jas Molony & Alicia Doran, sponsors Buckley and Cahill, abode Ballycoolin."
That is a good fit with the name Alice. Elizabeth fits her name and interesting that 3rd daughter Anne is Annie on birth cert. from day 1 - a pet name already maybe from Eliza's side.
I'll let you know what the certificates turn up- it may take a few days. The first son William after the father and "Travis" the middle name may be her father?
Finding more kids to those parents would be good. Does Familysearch have access to these catholic registers?
Many thanks again
Glen
kiterunner
13-01-17, 08:39
Glen, do you have a copy of William and Elizabeth's marriage record? And if so, what are the details from it, please?
kiterunner
13-01-17, 08:50
Finding more kids to those parents would be good. Does Familysearch have access to these catholic registers?
They aren't on FamilySearch, but they are on ancestry and Findmypast. Also on the National Library of Ireland site, but they are not searchable by name on there:
http://registers.nli.ie/
Here are some more children of James and Alicia baptised at Stradbally:
29 Mar 1829 Bryan, of James and Alicia Molony, sponsors Ed Smith and Cath Hyland.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/04202_02_0023/1126473?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dIrelandCatholicParish%26gss%3 dsfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1 %26msbdy%3d1820%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msfng %3dja*s%26msfng_x%3d1%26msmng%3dal*c*%26msmng_x%3d 1%26gskw%3dstradbally%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26ui dh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
8 Aug 1830 James, of James Mulroney and Alicia Doran, sponsors Denis Bryen(?) and Sarah Doran, abode Ballycoolin
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/04202_02_0025/1126682?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dIrelandCatholicParish%26gss%3 dsfs28_ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_A dvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d1840%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10 %26msfng%3dja*s%26msfng_x%3d1%26msmng%3dal*c*%26ms mng_x%3d1%26gskw%3dstradbally%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV% 3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Apr 1833 John, of Jas Molony and Alicia Doran, sponsors Michl McGah(?) and Mary Lalor.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/04202_02_0029/1127058?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dIrelandCatholicParish%26gss%3 dsfs28_ms_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_A dvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d1840%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10 %26msfng%3dja*s%26msfng_x%3d1%26msmng%3dal*c*%26ms mng_x%3d1%26gskw%3dstradbally%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV% 3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
kiterunner
13-01-17, 08:52
interesting that 3rd daughter Anne is Annie on birth cert. from day 1 - a pet name already maybe from Eliza's side.
It wasn't unusual for a birth to be registered as Annie rather than Anne.
Awfully sorry - was looking at those jpeg images and going crossyeyed wondering how you did it in finding names.
They were married Aug 1873 Wairoa, Hawkes Bay, New Zealand.
1873/8038 Elizabeth Higgins William Moloney
I have 21 August 1873 - maybe that info was from a newspaper search at the time.
I could try to find where tomorrow I found that.
I cannot get over the speed with which you are recreating their family.
All match except the Bryan!
How amazing - I hope you manage to sleep some time - Where are you based as it is an hour from midnight here!
Many thanks
Glen
kiterunner
13-01-17, 09:15
Awfully sorry - was looking at those jpeg images and going crossyeyed wondering how you did it in finding names.
They were married Aug 1873 Wairoa, Hawkes Bay, New Zealand.
1873/8038 Elizabeth Higgins William Moloney
I have 21 August 1873 - maybe that info was from a newspaper search at the time.
I could try to find where tomorrow I found that.
I cannot get over the speed with which you are recreating their family.
All match except the Bryan!
How amazing - I hope you manage to sleep some time - Where are you based as it is an hour from midnight here!
Many thanks
Glen
I'm in the UK, Glen, so it's morning here. When you've been searching on ancestry etc for a while you get to know various methods. But we would probably have got nowhere searching for the Moloneys before the Catholic church records were put online last year.
Of course the Ballycoolin / Stradbally family might not be the right one, although some of the names fit, but we need to try to find something to confirm or disprove it.
Bryan's birth in 1829 puts the James birthdate back to about 1809-1811 then.
kiterunner
13-01-17, 09:24
Bryan's birth in 1829 puts the James birthdate back to about 1809-1811 then.
Could be a lot earlier than that.
My family search site has just crashed and there is another girl I have had vague contact with who is working on this family too. She may have added the wedding date and have more info off the actual record. I'll msg her tomorrow and tell her have ordered death certs as well.
I thought I had written a post to say it puts Jame's birthdate back to 1809-11 and it has gone - so maybe my internet crashed. Heading to bed too- many thanks!
kiterunner
13-01-17, 09:38
I thought I had written a post to say it puts Jame's birthdate back to 1809-11 and it has gone - so maybe my internet crashed. Heading to bed too- many thanks!
See post #12 above. But as I said, he could have been born a lot earlier than that.
You are so quick - remember i am such a newbie at this ... your reply was there before I even had found the could be earlier reference !!!!
Because we are on page 2 now - and I hadn't realised that! lol
I am so seriously off to bed - knowing the best most capable people are on the lookout!
But I have puddled around with vague searches for hours already - You have shown me how easily professionals do it!
Here's the likely marriage of that James and Alice:
Name: James Malony
Gender: Male
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 17 Oct 1824
Marriage Place: Stradbally, Laois, Ireland
Diocese: Kildare and Leighlin
Spouse: Ally Doran
Place: Ballycoolin
I have puddled around with vague searches for hours already
Don't worry Glen, some of us have been looking for things for several decades! lol
kiterunner
13-01-17, 12:54
Here is the image for that marriage and it has the witnesses' names - I think they are Joseph Dowling and Judith Conoley.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/04202_02_0001?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return#?imageId=04202_02_0063
Thank you so much for your efforts Merry and Kite. I am so impressed. It is amazing to see the actual records and have also their translations into type.
I will try to get more of relevant info re death certificates online here as soon as possible.
Many thanks
Glenice
Hi Kite and Merry,
Just got home from a weekend away and very excited to see the arrival of the death certificates verifying you were sooooo correct! Amazing research on your behalf.
William Moloney: Parents
James Moloney Ballycoolin, Stradbally, Laios, Ireland married Alicia or Ally Doran
So Children will be: Bryan (1829)James (1830) John (1833) and William (1840)
Tomorrow I’ll have a go at finding more- is it a page by page flick and scan?
Also
Elizabeth Moloney (Higgins) Birth just says Ireland
Parents:
Francis Higgins profession: Farmer
Bridget Higgins (formerly Dawling)
Do you think they come from Laois as well? Is there a way for you two genies to magic them up?
Many thanks
Glenice
kiterunner
23-01-17, 09:53
Hi Kite and Merry,
Just got home from a weekend away and very excited to see the arrival of the death certificates verifying you were sooooo correct! Amazing research on your behalf.
William Moloney: Parents
James Moloney Ballycoolin, Stradbally, Laios, Ireland married Alicia or Ally Doran
So Children will be: Bryan (1829)James (1830) John (1833) and William (1840)
Tomorrow I’ll have a go at finding more- is it a page by page flick and scan?
If you look through on the NLI site then you just scroll down through the pages:
http://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634581#page/4/mode/1up
But if you are searching on ancestry then you can either browse through or search.
kiterunner
23-01-17, 10:10
Also
Elizabeth Moloney (Higgins) Birth just says Ireland
Parents:
Francis Higgins profession: Farmer
Bridget Higgins (formerly Dawling)
Do you think they come from Laois as well? Is there a way for you two genies to magic them up?
This is a possible for Elizabeth's baptism, although the mother's maiden name doesn't quite match:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/04201_04_0069/1984834?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dIrelandCatholicParish%26gss%3 dsfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1 %26gsfn%3deli*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dhig*%26gsln_x %3d1%26msbdy%3d1853%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26m smng%3dbri*%26msmng_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
25 Dec 1851 Mountrath, Laois
Eliza, daughter of F Higgins and Bridget Donnelly, sponsors Thos(?) Dunne and Catherine McDonald, abode Mountrath.
We need to find out whether this F Higgins is a Francis or not!
kiterunner
23-01-17, 10:18
Got to go out now but there are quite a few children of that couple baptised at Mountrath around then, and some have father's name as Frank, some as Francis, and here is one with mother's maiden name as Dowling:
(Edward 17 Dec 1845)
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/04201_04_0057/1982556?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dIrelandCatholicParish%26gss%3 dsfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1 %26gsln%3dhig*%26gsln_x%3d1%26msbdy%3d1851%26msbdy _x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msfng%3dfra*%26msfng_x%3d1%2 6msmng%3dbri*%26msmng_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm 5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
So it looks like the right family.
Thank you so much! That is very very exciting. I briefly saw lots of mispellings for dowling dawling last night on family searh when I put in her name. So tank you very much for the directions which I will follow up on today!
How wonderful!
This is interesting! I went to plug in Edward's birth into family search and there was a record for 1851 census for England and Wales there that I was immediately going to dismiss until I looked more closely. What do you make of this turn up?
Francis Higgins
England and Wales Census, 1851
Name Francis Higgins
Event Type Census
Event Date 1851
Event Place Selby, Yorkshire,Yorkshire (West Riding), England
Registration District Selby
Gender Male
Age 30
Marital Status Married
Occupation Labourer
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Birth Year (Estimated) 1821
Birthplace Ireland
Page Number 43
Registration Number HO107
Piece/Folio 2351 / 208
Affiliate Record Type Household
Household
Role
Gender
Age
Birthplace
Francis Higgins Head M 30 Ireland
Bridget Higgins Wife F 25 Ireland
Patrick Higgins Son M 3 Ireland
Michael Lowry Lodger M 50 Ireland
Thomas Lowry Lodger M 20 Ireland
Michael Lowry Jr Lodger M 18 Ireland
James Lowry Lodger M 40 Ireland
John Lowry Lodger M 16 Ireland
Margaret Lowry Lodger F 35 Ireland
Mary Lowry Lodger F 3 Ireland
Patrick Glavy Lodger M 22 Ireland
Daniel Higgins Lodger M 19 Ireland
Francis Higgins Lodger M 50 Ireland
England and Wales Census, 1851
Household ID 3051483
Line Number 4
Digital Folder Number 101796248
Image Number 00400
Citing this Record
"England and Wales Census, 1851," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SPM7-VMV : 24 July 2016), Francis Higgins, Selby, Yorkshire,Yorkshire (West Riding), England; citing Selby, Yorkshire,Yorkshire (West Riding), England, p. 43, from "1851 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO HO 107, The National Archives of the UK, Kew, Surrey.
Got to go out now but there are quite a few children of that couple baptised at Mountrath around then, and some have father's name as Frank, some as Francis, and here is one with mother's maiden name as Dowling:
(Edward 17 Dec 1845)
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/04201_04_0057/1982556?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dIrelandCatholicParish%26gss%3 dsfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1 %26gsln%3dhig*%26gsln_x%3d1%26msbdy%3d1851%26msbdy _x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msfng%3dfra*%26msfng_x%3d1%2 6msmng%3dbri*%26msmng_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm 5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
So it looks like the right family.
On Family Search there were several Edward Higgins who immigrated to Manhatten New York within the right age category marrying (either before or after) and having children. One married an Alice Graham and the other a Catherine Maguire Higgins. Both had families.
Just a possibility of an interesting life for him.
kiterunner
23-01-17, 18:56
That 1851 census entry for Selby, Yorkshire, won't be your Francis and Bridget if Elizabeth was baptised on 25 Dec 1851 in Mountrath, Laois. Unless they moved back to Ireland quick after the census.
Re post #13 above - you mentioned Francis and Bridget Higgins but no dates and then post #26 you have a Francis and Bridget in Yorkshire. Because I've not read the whole thread I wasn't sure if you were asking if these might be the same couple? The Yorkshire couple remained in England until at least 1861 and so had children in England. I looked up the first of these children to see what Bridget's maiden name was. Here is the registration:
HIGGINS, FRANCIS mother's maiden name FAREY
GRO Reference: 1852 J Quarter in SELBY Volume 09C Page 457
So, this Bridget was nee Farey and the one in Post #13 was nee Dawling.
If that's not the question, my apologies! :o
That 1851 census entry for Selby, Yorkshire, won't be your Francis and Bridget if Elizabeth was baptised on 25 Dec 1851 in Mountrath, Laois.
....and here we have a more straightforward answer from someone who always knows what's going on!! lol :D
kiterunner
23-01-17, 19:23
Saragh baptised 2 Dec 1838, there is a note which I haven't deciphered yet but I guess something to do with her being born before the parents' marriage.
Frank Higgins marries Bridget Doolin 24 Jul 1839
Twins Pat and John baptised 7 Jan 1841
Lawrence baptised 9 Jun 1843
Edward 17 Dec 1845
William 7 Sep 1849
Eliza 25 Dec 1851
Maria 1 Oct 1854
Francis 28 Jun 1857
Fenton 4 Aug 1861
all at Mountrath.
Hi
I agree re census and it took me a while to work that out (the Dec 1851 too) while trawling through page after page of slightly illegible names with the page crashing occasionally. I found a William Higgins 7 Sept 1849. And an illegible NAME born to Francis and Bridget Doolan of Sparhill - Can you work the name out? see attached.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/04201_04_0057/1982556?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dIrelandCatholicParish%26gss%3 dsfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1 %26gsln%3dhig*%26gsln_x%3d1%26msbdy%3d1851%26msbdy _x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msfng%3dfra*%26msfng_x%3d1%2 6msmng%3dbri*%26msmng_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm 5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=04201_04_00 83
Many thanks
Glenice
Finton? EDIT Kate said Fenton in post #31 but I think it's Finton
If you look at 11 Aug there's another child with the same name and also on 29 Sept a father of the same name (I didn't look any further as those others were clearer.)
Hi thanks,
Looks like Fenton was a popular name. That is interesting.
I think I found the Higgins marriage: Francis Higgins Marriage 24 Jul 1839 Mountrath , Laois Bridget
I feel so stupid .... I have just found Kite's post 31
I don't know how you do this Kite and Merry - It makes me feel very slow! You have a whole family there - if only I knew how to ensure I read every post!
How tragically funny!
There are several ways to open the threads and not miss anything. One way is to open the Research Questions board (or whichever other board) and look at the thread title you are interested in.....if there are unread posts the thread title will be in bold and if you look immediately to the left of the title there will be a little downward arrow in a box. If you click that you should be taken to the first post you haven't already read.
Now that you have found a whole family - there is a grave monument that is highly relevant:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=127335733
It mentions: Frances Higgins
Family links:
Children:
Sarah Higgins (____ - 1894)*
Patrick Higgins (1839 - 1900)*
Erected by
JOHN HIGGINS New Zealand
in memory of his beloved father
FRANCIS HIGGINS
died Dec. 1883.
Also his sister
SARAH HIGGINS
died Jan. 1894.
and his brother
PATRICK HIGGINS
died Nov. 1900.
R.I.P.
Burial:
Clonenagh Cemetery
Mountrath
County Laois, Ireland
"little downward arrow in a box."
Many thanks merry for your patience!
Oooh, that's good :)
(Have you read post #36?!!)
Let's not be at cross purposes here...
Now all I need to find is
John O'Conner and Ellen McCarthy who immigrated from somewhere - I am assuming Ireland to Napier Hawkes Bay NZ and had a daughter Margaret Pearl who married Francis Moloney - Eliza Moloney (Higgins) son - do you think I should just try and order a death cert for John ad Ellen as well which may give us more clues to work back on - if I can find them!
kiterunner
24-01-17, 07:14
With names like those, yes, it would definitely be a good idea to get their death certs.
Well I will do that and thank you soo much for all your work re the Higgins family.
That is all very, very exciting. John and Lawrence died in NZ too so it is nice to think Eliza did have family out here in the Hawkes Bay NZ.
Many thanks again. - I'll gie you both a good break until I can find more info!
kiterunner
24-01-17, 07:57
Saragh baptised 2 Dec 1838, there is a note which I haven't deciphered yet but I guess something to do with her being born before the parents' marriage.
I've had another look and it says "result of a clandestine marriage".
Lol - is that rather sweet? Perhaps Bridget wasn't catholic!
kiterunner
24-01-17, 12:19
Bridget tended to be a Catholic name. I would think more likely one or both of them was under age and their parents were against the marriage.
Hi Kite and Merry,
Is there a way to get back one more generation and find birth certs under the Catholic registers before 1920?
Meanwhile very exciting news with Adare, County Limerick, ireland for both John O'Connor and Ellen mcCarthy (possible sister Frances).
Parent information from John O’Connor and Ellen McCarthy
John O’Conner, 30 Farmer, bachelor, of Dannevirke, married Ellen McCarthy 24, Domestic, Spinster, of Woodville on the 10 February 1890 at Roman Catholic Church Woodville. They were both born in Adare, County Limerick Ireland.
Adare is written as Adere on the certificate. John born 1860 and Ellen born 1866. John and Ellen have at least 3 children.
John’s parents are Timothy O’Conner (labourer) and Sarah Ayton.
Ellen’s parents are James McCarthy (farmer) and Margaret Carty.
Frances McCarthy (Domestic) and John McLeary (Labourer) both of Woodville were witnesses.
I'll have to look for the link to get back to the Irish registers.
Many thanks for your miracles in advance
Glenice
kiterunner
02-02-17, 07:16
There won't be birth certificates at that date, but we could look for baptisms.
Very good.
I have this page to scan for it Adare tomorrow:
http://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0856
kiterunner
02-02-17, 12:09
It is Frank Higgins and Bridget Dowling / Doolin whose baptisms you want to find before 1820, isn't it? We need to make a list of their children's baptism sponsors as they might help to confirm whether any baptism we find is likely to be the right one (i.e. if their names match with relatives.)
kiterunner
02-02-17, 16:52
Okay, these are the baptism sponsors but no Higginses or Dowlings, unfortunately, though some could be married sisters, or brothers-in-law:
1838 Wm Cunning(?)
Laur Honead(?)
1841 John Cunningham
Mary Dickinson(?)
Will Cunningham
Eliza Green
1843 Con and Eliza Dowling
1845 Patt Shiel
Cath Lalor
1849 Richd Keenan
Margt Keenan(?)
1851 Thomas Dunne
Catherine McDonald
1854 Denis Lalor
Anne Salmon
1857 Dan Kavanagh
Ellen Burns
1861 Thos Wallace
Mary Murray
kiterunner
02-02-17, 17:06
Oh, the Mountrath baptisms only go back to 1823. Bother.
Yes the 1823 thing is a bother. The must be going to bring out older records surely at some future day? Otherwise how to people do it when hemispheres apart???
kiterunner
03-02-17, 07:13
They can only bring out older records if those records have actually survived!
Do you want any help with tracing the people in post #47?
It took all evening but I finally found Sarah Ayton was Sara Eaton- How funny.
Timotheus O'Connor
[Timothy O'Connor]
Gender: Male
Event Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: Jan 1855
Marriage Place: Adare, Limerick, Ireland
Diocese: Limerick
Spouse: Sara Eaton
Haven't found any others yet!
I have a month's ancestry membership but I don't think I can be searching properly - Be good to find James McCarthy and Margaret Carty's marriage at least. I think they had a child Frances as well as Ellen.
kiterunner
03-02-17, 08:15
Could this be the marriage?
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/02420_11_0043/2526934?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dNKb13852%26_phstart%3dsuc cessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dIrelandCatholi cParish%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dja* s%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3d*cart*y%26gsln_x%3d1%26mss ng%3dmarg*%26mssng_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5%2 6gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d40%26fsk%3dBEDfMz IIgADubwBlguk-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
It's in Latin. 22 Nov 1852 at Adare, Jacobus McCarthy et Margarita Canty coram Joanne Canty et Patritii Canty.
(Coram = in the presence of, i.e. the witnesses' names.)
Here are baptisms of some of their children, but the Adare records only go up to 1865 at the moment:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/02420_11_0013/2526182?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dNKb13868%26_phstart%3dsuc cessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dIrelandCatholi cParish%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d18 62%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msmng%3dmarg*%26ms mng_x%3d1%26gskw%3dadare%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%2 6uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d60%2 6fsk%3dBEGZmZkIgADubwBYf54-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
14 May 1853 Patritius Jacobi McCarthy & Margarita Canty Sp Joannes Canty et Helena McCarthy
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/02420_11_0024/2526551?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dNKb13868%26_phstart%3dsuc cessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dIrelandCatholi cParish%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d18 62%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msmng%3dmarg*%26ms mng_x%3d1%26gskw%3dadare%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%2 6uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d60%2 6fsk%3dBEGZmZkIgADubwBYf54-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
16 Apr 1859 Franciscus Jacobi McCarthy et Margarita Canty Thomas Canty et Honora Dowling
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/02420_11_0026/2526631?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dNKb13868%26_phstart%3dsuc cessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dIrelandCatholi cParish%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d18 62%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msmng%3dmarg*%26ms mng_x%3d1%26gskw%3dadare%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%2 6uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d70%2 6fsk%3dBEGZmZkIgADubwBlmv0-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
1 Jul 1860 Johannes Jacobi McCarthy et Margarita Canty Pat (= sponsors) Thomas Fitzgerald Maria Canty
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/02420_11_0030/2526712?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dNKb13868%26_phstart%3dsuc cessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dIrelandCatholi cParish%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d18 62%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msmng%3dmarg*%26ms mng_x%3d1%26gskw%3dadare%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%2 6uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d70%2 6fsk%3dBEGZmZkIgADubwBlmv0-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
5 Dec 1861 Margaritam Jacobi McCarthy et Margta Canty Patrii Martinus Quaid et Johanna Quaid alias McCarthy
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/02420_11_0035/2526812?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dNKb13868%26_phstart%3dsuc cessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dIrelandCatholi cParish%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d18 62%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msmng%3dmarg*%26ms mng_x%3d1%26gskw%3dadare%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%2 6uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d70%2 6fsk%3dBEGZmZkIgADubwBlmv0-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
2 Aug 1863 Mariam ex Margarita Canty et Jocobo McCarthy. Spons Thoma Fitzgerald et Maria McCarthy
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/61039/02420_11_0039/2526897?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dNKb13868%26_phstart%3dsuc cessSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dIrelandCatholi cParish%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d18 62%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msmng%3dmarg*%26ms mng_x%3d1%26gskw%3dadare%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%2 6uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d70%2 6fsk%3dBEGZmZkIgADubwBlmv0-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
9 May 1865 Thomas Jacobi McCarthy et Margarita Canty sponsoritus Davidico Roach et Margarita McCarthy
How fantastic! Yes! My reading of Carty could easily be Canty.
I am reading Franciscus as a male child so how likely would there be to have been a Francesa as well - Frances was a domestic in the marriage witness record in NZ so obviously female.
Could we say that James had sisters Margarita, Maria, Johanna and Helena ?
Could we also say that Margaret Canty had brothers Thomas and Joannes?
Canty is given as one of the principal names in the barony of Kilnalmeaky, County Cork. The sept spread in to the neighbouring counties of Limerick and Kerry, where the name is now mainly found.
I will have a look for John O'Conners birth on the Adare records for 1860.
I am still in awe of your speed searches with such amazing results!
kiterunner
03-02-17, 21:34
The sponsors aren't necessarily siblings, although it's quite likely - could be parents, siblings-in-law, cousins, etc.
Yes, Franciscus would be male (Francis) but there could be a female Frances in the family too.
For the O'Connor family I found:
Patritius O'Connor Baptism 18 Mar 1860 Adare, Limerick Timothei, Sara
Jacobus O'Connor Baptism 17 Jun 1855 Adare, Limerick Timothei, Sara
Timotheus Connors Baptism 6 Dec 1857 Adare, Limerick Timothei, Sara
Could the Patrick take the name John as I couldn't find a John near the 1860 to make him 30 in the NZ wedding of 1890?
kiterunner
04-02-17, 09:16
For the O'Connor family I found:
Patritius O'Connor Baptism 18 Mar 1860 Adare, Limerick Timothei, Sara
Jacobus O'Connor Baptism 17 Jun 1855 Adare, Limerick Timothei, Sara
Timotheus Connors Baptism 6 Dec 1857 Adare, Limerick Timothei, Sara
Could the Patrick take the name John as I couldn't find a John near the 1860 to make him 30 in the NZ wedding of 1890?
Unlikely but I suppose it's possible.
The top three are my most likely as parents and siblings for Margaret Canty
ThomasCanty Baptism 18 Jan 1835 Adare, Limerick Jacobi,
Ellena Quilty
Margarita Canty Baptism 16 May 1833 Adare, Limerick Jacobo,
Ellena Quilty
Mariam Canty Baptism 16 May 1841 Adare, Limerick Jacobi,
Ellena
View Record
Thomas Canty Baptism 7 Sep 1834 Adare, Limerick Jacobi,
Margarita Fitzgibbon
View Record
Jacobus Canty Baptism 23 Feb 1833 Adare, Limerick Jacobi,
Margarita
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