Search for great great grandfather [Archive] - Genealogists' Forum

Painterleo

20-11-16, 10:54

Hi everyone,im new to family history,& the site,so excuse me if i dont explain myself too well.
I am trying to trace some records for my great great granfather,Thomas Fury this is his name according to the marriage certificate of his son..John fury john was married in St Laurence church Ludlow in 1895.
John was born according to records in Radnorshire but was a nurse child from age 4,& lived with a family called Blakeway in Ludlow.
I cannot trace Thomas Fury back any further,& would be grateful of some advice as to where i may look to further my family tree.
I forgot to add sorry,Johns wife was called susan..nee Nicholas.
Many thanks.

kiterunner

20-11-16, 10:58

Welcome to the site, Painterleo!

Does John Fury's marriage cert give Thomas Fury's occupation?

I should mention that father's name on a marriage certificate is not always accurate, especially if the son or daughter didn't know their father.

kiterunner

20-11-16, 11:02

Okay, I've found John Fury's marriage certificate on Findmypast and it says his father was Thomas Fury, farmer, deceased:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fshrop%2fp176-a-3-7%2f211680&parentid=gbprs%2fshrop%2fmar%2f83753%2f1&highlights=%22%22

ElizabethHerts

20-11-16, 11:03

Welcome to the site, Painterleo!

Here is the marriage from FMP:

First name(s) John
Last name Fury
Birth year 1876
Marriage year 1895
Marriage date 25 Mar 1895
Marriage place Ludlow
Denomination Anglican
Residence Upper Galdeford
Age 19
Father's first name(s) Thomas
Father's last name Fury
Spouse's first name(s) Susan
Spouse's last name Nicholas
Spouse's residence Sandpits
Spouse's age 19
Spouse's father's first name(s) John
Spouse's father's last name Nicholas
County Shropshire
Register date range 1891-1900
Archive reference P176/A/3/7
Page 52
Register type Marriage
Record set Shropshire marriages

This is the image:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fshrop%2fp176-a-3-7%2f211680&parentid=gbprs%2fshrop%2fmar%2f83753%2f1

The image says the father was Thomas Fury, farmer, deceased.

ElizabethHerts

20-11-16, 11:04

I take it we need to look for the birth registration of John Fury c. 1876 as I assume you don't have the birth certificate?

kiterunner

20-11-16, 11:06

This is the 1901 census entry for John and Susan, on ancestry:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/HEFRG13_2501_2505-0536/13478722?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1901%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db %26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3djohn %26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3df*ry%26gsln_x%3d1%26msbdy%3 d1876%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26mssng%3dsus*%26m ssng_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

John Fury Head 24 Militia (on sick furlo') born Ludlow Salop
Susan Fury Wife 25 born Ludlow Salop
Margret Fury Daur 4 born Ludlow Salop
John Henry Fury Son 3 born Ludlow Salop
William Fury Son 5 months born Ludlow Salop

kiterunner

20-11-16, 11:08

And the 1911 census, again on ancestry:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_15874_0161_03/43219430?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911England%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_ r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3d john%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3df*ry%26gsln_x%3d1%26msb dy%3d1876%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26mssng%3dsus* %26mssng_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

John Fury Head 35 Married General Labourer born Radnor Knighton
Susan Fury Wife 36 Married 16 years, 10 children, 8 living, 2 died, born Salop Ludlow
John Henry Fury Son 13 School born Salop Ludlow
Margaret Fury Daughter 14 Domestic Servant born Salop Ludlow
William Thomas Fury Son 11 School born Salop Ludlow
Brian Fury Son 8 born Salop Ludlow
Edward Fury Son 4 born Salop Ludlow
Winifred Fury Daughter 3 born Ancoats Manchester
Constance Fury Daughter 9 mos born Salop Ludlow
Catherine Fury Adopted 6 born Salop Ludlow

kiterunner

20-11-16, 11:20

1891 census:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/SALRG12_2080_2084-0165/26224485?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1891%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d189 1UKI%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3djoh n%26gsfn_x%3d1%26msbdy%3d1876%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbd p%3d2%26msrpn__ftp%3dLudlow%252c%2bShropshire%252c %2bEngland%26msrpn%3d87027%26msrpn_PInfo%3d8-%257c0%257c0%257c3257%257c3251%257c0%257c0%257c0%2 57c5282%257c87027%257c0%257c0%257c%26msrpn_x%3d1%2 6msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26gskw%3dblak*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MS AV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

39 Upper Galdeford, Ludlow, Shropshire
Mary Blakeway Head Wid 62 Midwife born Salop Whettleton
Edwin Blakeway Son S 33 General Laborer born Salop Ludlow
Mary Blakeway Daur S 25 Washerwoman born Salop Ludlow
John Fury Blakeway Son S 15 Brick Lad born Radnorshire Knighton
Eliza Blakeway Daur 5 Scholar born Salop Ludlow

kiterunner

20-11-16, 11:26

And the 1881 census:
93 Lower Galdeford, Ludlow, Shropshire
John Blakeway Head Mar 54 Rural Post Messenger born Salop Stoke St Milbro' Lost arm by accident
Mary Blakeway Wife Mar 52 born Salop Leemore Common
Edwin Blakeway Son Unm 22 Labourer born Salop Stanton Lacy
John Blakeway Son Unm 20 Labourer born Salop Stanton Lacy
Edwin Blakeway Son 13 Scholar born Salop Ludlow
John Fury Nurse Child 4 born Radnor Knighton

I think the second Edwin is probably a mistake and was supposed to be daughter Mary!

kiterunner

20-11-16, 11:31

This may or may not be connected: George Fury birth registered Apr-Jun 1881 Knighton, mother's maiden name Daley.

Merry

20-11-16, 11:34

This may or may not be connected: George Fury birth registered Apr-Jun 1881 Knighton.

I looked at that one - mmn Daley. Parents Edward and Catherine (m Q1 1877) who are together in 1891 and have a son John b later than the 1876 one. I did look for a birth reg in name Daley but nothing, though I didn't check variable spellings.

Merry

20-11-16, 11:41

Sorry Painterleo - welcome to GF :D

Merry

20-11-16, 11:43

Parents Edward and Catherine (m Q1 1877) who are together in 1891 and have a son John b later than the 1876 one.

Hmmm, just realised I was looking at the wrong family in 1891!! Just eating now.....

kiterunner

20-11-16, 11:46

I found Edward and Kate in 1881 and they had a son Edward 3 and daughter Annie 2 with them. Edward was a travelling tinman. Not managed to find anything to connect John Fury of Ludlow with them though. Probably just a coincidence.

Merry

20-11-16, 12:57

There's a John Fury (prob illegitimate) reg Q3 1876 in Kidderminster district who I can't find in 1881. I realise this is the wrong side of Ludlow, but it would be good to eliminate him.

kiterunner

20-11-16, 13:00

I see there is a thread about this on Rootschat, from yesterday:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=759734.9

and they found an Edwin Fury who was born and died in Ludlow in 1879, mother's name Anne Fury. Could be connected.

Merry

20-11-16, 13:03

Oh thanks.

kiterunner

20-11-16, 13:08

Given that John had a son named Bryan, it might be worth looking at this person from the 1901 census:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/HEFRG13_2501_2505-0547/13479040?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dvfl240%26_phstart%3dsucce ssSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3duki1901%26so%3d2 %26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsln%3dfur*y%26 gsln_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gskw%3dludl ow%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3 drstp&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

2 Van, Smithfield, Ludlow, Herefordshire
Bryan Fury Head Widr 71 Tinman born Wrexham.

Painterleo

20-11-16, 13:12

Hi everyone,thankyou for all the feedback on John FURY.
As you have rightly said kiterunner his father is Thomas FURY,it is here im stuck,as i cant seem to get anymore information on Thomas,if that is indeed his name or he did exist.
What makes me think he may not is John was a nurse child, & years ago things were looked upon quite differently is some circumstances,so im not quite sure where o go next being a newbie to all this.

Merry

20-11-16, 13:15

The first post I read on the Rootschat thread said:

So what we know is that Bryan's father is John Fury supposedly born circa 1876 in Knighton Radnorshire,

and I thought Bryan was an unusual name for someone born around 1900.

I then noticed there was a Bryan Fury b Wrexham about 1830 and another in Presteigne district in 1859 and I did wonder if there was a connection, though I realise the chances of John Fury knowing many birth relations may be small.

Merry

20-11-16, 13:20

Painterleo

20-11-16, 13:20

Sorry forgot to add to Elazabeth herts post,sorry not found a birth cert for John Fury.

Merry

20-11-16, 13:25

Bryan 1830 seems to be the head of a travelling family. I see he had a dau Ann helpfully born in NK (not known)!! (at least on the first census I looked at)

kiterunner

20-11-16, 13:25

Bryan did have a daughter Ann who could perhaps be the Ann Fury who was the mother of Edwin Fury 1879:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/HEFRG10_5593_5595-0018/29417103?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dvfl243%26_phstart%3dsucce ssSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3duki1871%26so%3d2 %26pcat%3d35%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dbr% 253fan%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dfur*y%26gsln_x%3d1%26 cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%2 6uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

1871 census - Clifford, Herefordshire
Bryan Fury Head Mar 40 Travelling Tinman born Ireland Westport
Mary Fury Wife Mar 40 born Ireland Westport
John Fury Son Unm 18 Tinman born England ???place
Edward Fury Son 16 Tinman birthplace not known
Ann Fury Daur 14 born N K (= not known)
Mary Fury Daur 13 born N K
Bryan Fury Son 12 born N K
Hugh Fury Son 10 born N K
Thomas Fury Son 7 born N K

I bet Edward from this family is the same Edward who was with wife Kate in 1881 (post #14). Your John Fury could be the child of one of Bryan's children, but which one?

(Edit - we were posting at the same time, Merry. I have to go out now so will leave you to it.....)

Merry

20-11-16, 13:29

Bryan's dau Ann is aged 35 and single in 1891, b Ross Herefordshire on that census.

Merry

20-11-16, 13:34

If there is a connection between the families it's going to be difficult to work out without a birth reg or baptism for John.

I am still wondering about that Kidderminster birth reg.....

Painterleo

20-11-16, 13:41

A relative who was doing some work on the family tree a while back also connected John to Kiddy there is a ref if it means anything
10/8/1876 Caunsall..6c 250 Kidderminster-9/5/33 Ludlow hairdresser

Merry

20-11-16, 13:49

Well, you won't believe this ...... have to transcribe something so bear with me as I only type with two fingers!

Merry

20-11-16, 14:00

Ok, so there was this birth:

Births Sep 1876 Fury John Kidderminster 6c 250

which as I said before is the wrong side of Ludlow, but if we think there is a connection between John Fury b abt 1877 and Bryan Fury b about 1830 and Bryan's family were travellers then what's a few miles! Anyway, I found this in the paper:

Wellington Journal 12 August 1876

Kidderminster

CONCEALMENT OF BIRTH.- On Thursday morning a newly born male child was found lying in a hedge at Cornsall, near Cookley, by some men working at the forge, who were on their way to the works. They gave information to P.C.Dunne, who visited the spot. Hearing that some gypsies had been staying near there on the previous day he went in search of them. He saw a man named Bryan Fury, one of the gypsies, and asked him if he had any daughters. Receiving an answer in the affirmative, he ascertained that one of the girls, about seventeen years of age had gone to Kinver, and he went after her. He met the girl on the road and interrogated her. From appearances his suspicions were aroused, and he charged her with the offence, which she at once admitted, and he took her into custody. The child was removed to the Kidderminster Workhouse and is still alive.

Merry

20-11-16, 14:04

A relative who was doing some work on the family tree a while back also connected John to Kiddy there is a ref if it means anything
10/8/1876 Caunsall..6c 250 Kidderminster-9/5/33 Ludlow hairdresser

The first bit suggests they had the Kidderminster birth cert as 10/8/1876 is probably the birth date and Caunsall is the place of birth, but they have not told you the name of the mother - the 17 year old dau of Bryan Fury. The 9/5/33 bit is presumably John's date of death (I've not looked for that).

Are you able to contact your relative to find out the name of the mother on the birth cert?

Painterleo

20-11-16, 14:13

Hi merry
Ive not seen him in a long while,was last living in poole dorset,i will have to contact my dads cousin to find his where abouts,but thank you for that,made me chuckle i know its nit funny.
Nice of al, you people to reply to my post im very touched thank you all very much

Merry

20-11-16, 14:21

I looked in the paper to see if there was anything about the case against the daughter....

County Express; Brierley Hill, Stourbridge, Kidderminster, and Dudley News 12 August 1876

There is an article re-telling the story again and adding that the girl's name was Ann Fury or Ford. I don't know where the name Ford came from, but I feel sure this was Bryan's daughter. About 15 years later she was recorded as 35 on the census, so not far off being 17 or thereabouts in 1876.

kiterunner

20-11-16, 14:35

Wow, well done, Merry!

Painterleo

20-11-16, 14:44

Hi Merry apparantly there was a Ann Fury(tin worker) looks like 1855 it has Ross by it with question mark,assume they mean Ross on wye.
He has 20/2/24 by it also with Ashford Carbonell ..which is a village about 5 miles from Ludlow..
Back in the record he has another Ann Fury of 1822 houswife in Irleland with a ref
104 worcester St Llanelly 1881 cencus so not sure where that comes into it

Merry

20-11-16, 14:44

Well, I was hardly searching for an article about concealment of birth! It really was just luck. There were a lot of articles about Bryan being in trouble with the law and I was only looking to see if there were any in 1875/6 giving an indication of where the family were living at that time.

What a stroke of luck that John named his son Bryan (or Brian in later records), otherwise we might still be scratching our heads!.

kiterunner

20-11-16, 14:52

John Fury's death was registered Apr-Jun 1933 Ludlow, age 56, which fits with the 1933 date that you had. Not sure what the 1924 date is yet.

kiterunner

20-11-16, 14:54

There is a Sylvon E Fury death registered Jan-Mar 1924 Ludlow, age 1.

Merry

20-11-16, 15:05

I found the family on the 1861 census at St Margaret's in Herefordshire. Ann is aged 5 which matches with her being 35 in 1891, so she was probably nearer 20 when John was born.

Merry

20-11-16, 15:23

Worcestershire Chronicle 26 August 1876

Ann Fury was brought before the magistrates and committed to trial at the next quarter sessions for concealment of the birth of a child. She said she had feared telling her father anything of it.

Worcestershire Chronicle 21 October 1876

At her trial she was recorded as aged 22. She was acquitted because she said she had not abandoned the child, just left it where she could go back to it because her father had asked her to go and buy some bacon. Her father said he was ashamed of her.

Painterleo

20-11-16, 15:35

All interesting reading ive tried to look up birth cert for Bryan but no luck as yet omly his marriage cert

kiterunner

20-11-16, 15:49

Do you mean John's grandfather Bryan? As he was born around 1831 there won't be a birth certificate.

Merry

20-11-16, 16:04

And he may well have been married in Ireland (if he and Mary were married officially)

Merry

20-11-16, 16:41

There's another article in the Hereford Times 06 April 1861.

It's too long to be transcribed (by me anyway!) and seems to suggest that the father of Bryan Fury (b 1830) was also Bryan Fury and that he was killed 26 Nov 1860 in Pontypool (aggravated manslaughter - he suffered a fractured skull in an assault but had severely diseased lungs so there was argument over the actual cause of death, but they eventually settled on the fractured skull).

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000396%2f18610406%2f028

After a lot if fiddling I found this death reg:

FURREY, BRYANT aged 80 GRO Reference: 1860 D Quarter in PONTYPOOL Volume 11A Page 79

There are a lot of witness statements by various family members in the article which may help with your tree.