View Full Version : Can't read Towns in Counties
Can someone please tell me what the towns are in these two counties
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad193/joody_anne/b1a.jpg
I am talking about the last 5 items. I know the first say Hants .... then it looks like Manchester (I didn't think they were near each other), and next 3 say Hants again I think, but I cant read the town. (I know Hants is Hampshire)
maggie_4_7
16-11-16, 05:00
I think the county looks like Hunts short for Huntingdonshire.
The first town is Godmanchester and the second town is Hartford both in Huntingdonshire.
I'd never heard of those places Maggie - but thank you :)
Should you look for info on them Jood, they are both now in Cambridgeshire as Huntingdonshire is now a non-metropolitan district of Cambridgeshire and no longer a county in it's own right.
If I had seen the last place on the census sheet listed independently I would have thought it said Hertford in Hertfordshire (Herts), but Hartford and Godmanchester are next to each other whilst Hertford is 35 miles away. If you hadn't cut off the names we could have investigated further!
I thought the sheet looked like the 1851 census so now I've found the family. I see they were living in Ware which is in Hertfordshire, making the likelihood the children were born in Hertford stronger! I see the younger ones were born in Ware. I can't see baps for Henry or Charles in the first places I looked (fmp and FS for Herts and ancestry for Hunts), so will look again later as I should be getting up now!
EDIT there are a couple of older children bap in Godmanchester but nothing for Henry and Charles so I think it may say Hertford for ther birthplaces on the 1851 census. Henry has Hertford clearly written on some later census records too.
maggie_4_7
16-11-16, 07:37
Oh now I have blown it up the second could be Herts, Hertford.
I wondered why it would have said Hans when I thought they came from Ware, Hertsford. The Head's name was Henry Bullard b. 1803 - and it says Hampshire in my tree, but I will re-look for it??
I am slowly working my way through the censuses for him - have nly done 1851 so far, will look for more tomorrow.
Thanks Merry
There are some Godmanchester baptisms on ancestry including one for Henry Bullard's wife:
Name: Harriett Freeman
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 16 Feb 1806
Christening Place: Godmanchester, Huntingdonshire, England
Father: William Freeman
Mother: Elizabeth
but I couldn't see one for Henry.
That proves for sure she came from Godmanchester then.
I'm going to check the other censuses today and see what they say. I dont expect their marriage to show where they came from, that long ago.
Thanks Merry, glad I asked, as I would have put down Hampshire.
I dont expect their marriage to show where they came from, that long ago.
No England/Wales marriage entry says where someone was born, even today! For banns you only have to have been at the address given for three weeks.
Thanks. I will have to rely on the censuses then which I've yet to check (61/71/81) - he died in 1885
I looked at those yesterday. The 1881 census said 'not known' for Henry and Harriet. Maybe their info was given by a neighbour? All the other years said Godmanchester for both of them.
There's also a James Bullard who appears on censuses and says he was born Godmanchester about 1792, but I can't find a baptism for him. He is also a basket maker.
A couple named John and Ann Bullard/Ballard had two children bap at Godmanchester - Robert in 1801 and Jubilee in 1809. John seems to be a widower in 1841 and is living with his daughter and next door to Robert in Godmanchester. John is also a basket maker. I wonder if he had unbaptised children between those two?
EDIT: according to the newspapers Jubilee was male. I just assumed female without looking!!
I've decided to go forward to my brother in law's grandfather again - the Sydney Bullard who was born abt 1880 in Southwark, Surrey - not sure if I've been drifting off the wrong path.
The fact that Sydney says he was born Southwark, and later Camberwell, makes me think its the same person because ..... St Saviour was (is?) a parish of Southwark, formerly Surrey, now London (the boundary changed in 1889). Camberwell and Lambeth are just a couple of miles away and were also part of Surrey until 1889.
He had just the 3 children - Henry George, Anne & Beatrice.
I have his marriage certificate to Beatrice Howell 1901 - and his father is Frederick (her father William Leslie Howell. I know all this is definitely correct.
I have the 1881 census where he is 1 and b. Southwark
I have the 1891 census but not the details but I need to prove it as it shows Sydney Bullard 11 Scholar London 1880 Walworth, London (no idea if Walworth is near Southwark.
I have the 1911 census where he is 31 and married (birthplace Camberwell) - he is now a builders labourer, with wife Beatrice. Sydney 10, Henry George 6 & Beatrice Lilian.
So far all good.
There's also a James Bullard who appears on censuses and says he was born Godmanchester about 1792, but I can't find a baptism for him. He is also a basket maker.
A couple named John and Ann Bullard/Ballard had two children bap at Godmanchester - Robert in 1801 and Jubilee in 1809. John seems to be a widower in 1841 and is living with his daughter and next door to Robert in Godmanchester. John is also a basket maker. I wonder if he had unbaptised children between those two?
EDIT: according to the newspapers Jubilee was male. I just assumed female without looking!
Merry - Sydney had a brother James but I will put that on hold, till I catch up with that generation.
I believe Sydney may have been killed in WW1 but yet to find proof, though I am told this - died 28th April 1917 Flanders, but nothing to support it. His wife Beatrice, brought the 3 children to Australia in 1921
I know you checked some censuses yesterday for Henry & Harriet, but at this stage, I am staying with Sydney Beatrice. Have not seen 1891 or 1901 censuses for them as yet.
kiterunner
17-11-16, 21:58
He had just the 3 children - Henry George, Anne & Beatrice.
I have his marriage certificate to Beatrice Howell 1901
There is also a Sydney William Bullard, mother's maiden name Howell, birth registered Oct-Dec 1901 Camberwell, and a Frank Edward Bullard birth registered Apr-Jun 1913. Oh, I see you actually mentioned Sydney jr being on the 1911 census, so you already knew about him! Frank E Bullard's death was registered Apr-Jun 1915 Lambeth, age 2.
I have the 1891 census but not the details but I need to prove it as it shows Sydney Bullard 11 Scholar London 1880 Walworth, London (no idea if Walworth is near Southwark. Yes, it is.
kiterunner
17-11-16, 22:06
I believe Sydney may have been killed in WW1 but yet to find proof, though I am told this - died 28th April 1917 Flanders, but nothing to support it. His wife Beatrice, brought the 3 children to Australia in 1921
CWGC has Sidney Bullard, Lance Corporal, service no 14185, Suffolk Regiment 7th Bn, died 28 Apr 1917. The UK Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects on ancestry shows that his wife's name was Beatrice, so it must be your Sydney.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/60506/42511_6117462_0155-00219?pid=725597&backurl=//search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DNKb8208%26_phstart%3DsuccessSourc e%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26gss%3Dangs-g%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26gsfn%3Ds?dney%2 6gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Dbullard%26gsln_x%3D1%26MSAV%3 D2%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26msddy%3D1916%26msddy_x%3D1%26m sddp%3D2%26cp%3D0%26catbucket%3Drstp%26pcat%3DROOT _CATEGORY%26h%3D725597%26recoff%3D3%25204%26db%3DU KArmyRegistersEffects%26indiv%3D1%26ml_rpos%3D8&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=NKb8208&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true
Thanks for the Military look up for confirmation, Kate.
Regarding Walworth being near London, could anyone look up the entry? - I think its Find my Past, for more detail on the entry in family search - Sydney Bullard 11 Scholar London 1880 Walworth, London - 1891 census.
I don't know why I cant find Sydney & Beatrice in the 1901 census though.
kiterunner
17-11-16, 22:33
Sydney and Beatrice got married on the 31st Mar 1901 by banns at St Paul's Church in the parish of St Mary Newington, in Southwark, and both gave their address as 16 Sutherland Square. There are 3 households at that address on the 1901 census but no Bullards or Howells. The 1901 census was supposed to show where everyone was on the night of 31st March, so maybe they were just setting off on honeymoon or moving into their new accommodation and didn't get tallied anywhere? I have been looking but not found them (yet).
I never thought of that Kate! About them being on their honeymoon!
I have now moved up one generation to Sydney's Parents Frederick Bullard & Annie Hough.
It seems Frederick Bullard b about 1849 Ware Hertfordshire & Martha Anne (aka Annie) Hough, b 1847 b. Wadesmill Hertfordshire - is correct.
I have 7 children, including Sydney (of course) and possibly the James - but will investigate further. Atthis stageI've seen the 1881/91 census
kiterunner
17-11-16, 22:42
Thanks for the Military look up for confirmation, Kate.
Regarding Walworth being near London, could anyone look up the entry? - I think its Find my Past, for more detail on the entry in family search - Sydney Bullard 11 Scholar London 1880 Walworth, London - 1891 census.
Sorry, I didn't mean that Walworth was near London but that it was in or near Southwark.
The 1891 census entry is (I think) New Church Rd, Camberwell:
Annie Bullard Wife M 43 Herts Wadesmill
James Do Son S 21 Basket Maker Do Hoddesdon
Frederick Do Son S 19 Do Do Do Enfield
Henry Do Son S 17 Blind Maker London Walworth
Rose Do Daur 14 Do Do
Sydney Do Son 11 Scholar Do Do
Maud Do Daur 7 Do Do Do
Nellie Do Daur 3 Do Do
William Hamilton Boarder S 17 Basket Maker Do Camberwell.
This is the link to it on FMP but I haven't found it on ancestry yet to post a link:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record/browse?id=gbc%2f1891%2f0488%2f0103
kiterunner
17-11-16, 22:44
Here is the link to that 1891 census entry on ancestry:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/LNDRG12_487_489-0287/8134090?backurl=%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1891%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db %26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dwill *%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dham*%26gsln_x%3d1%26msbdy% 3d1874%26msbdy_x%3d1%26gskw%3dcamberwell%26gskw_x% 3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Their surname had been indexed as Green (the previous family) instead of Bullard because of Annie being down as wife but no head of household being present. I will put in a correction.
OOops sorry again Kate, I meant 1901 census, and you have put my mind at rest now for that one.
Even better to know Walworth is near Southwark - and you agree that if they put Camberwell, it used to be Southwark?
How on earth did you find them with the wrong name (Green?) and what does interactive ancestry mean?
Thanks for getting it corrected for me.
kiterunner
18-11-16, 06:55
OOops sorry again Kate, I meant 1901 census, and you have put my mind at rest now for that one.
Even better to know Walworth is near Southwark - and you agree that if they put Camberwell, it used to be Southwark?
How on earth did you find them with the wrong name (Green?) and what does interactive ancestry mean?
Thanks for getting it corrected for me.
Camberwell is very close to Southwark.
I found them as Green because I found them on FMP first and then I looked up their boarder, William Hamilton, on ancestry.
No idea what "interactive ancestry" means, sorry.
CWGC has Sidney Bullard, Lance Corporal, service no 14185, Suffolk Regiment 7th Bn, died 28 Apr 1917. The UK Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects on ancestry shows that his wife's name was Beatrice, so it must be your Sydney.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/60...&usePUBJs=true
__________________
I looked up that site, Kate, and kept a copy of it, but I wonder if there are any more detailed records of him being in the army.
This particular Sidney/Sydney Bullard was born around 1880.
The younger Sydney Bullard born in 1901, and appearing in 1911 census as a 10 year old - has just disappeared off the face of the earth. I can't find a death or a marriage :(
kiterunner
19-11-16, 10:50
I think I already looked at the military records and didn't see his full service record, but a lot of the service papers were destroyed.
kiterunner
19-11-16, 11:07
There is a death registration Apr-Jun 1968 Scarborough for Sydney W Bullard age 66. Looking on the probate search site, I found the following for 1968:
BULLARD Sydney William of 4 Hibernia St Scarborough died 22 May 1968 Administration York 13 August. £689.
There is a death registration Apr-Jun 1968 Scarborough for Sydney W Bullard age 66. Looking on the probate search site, I found the following for 1968:
BULLARD Sydney William of 4 Hibernia St Scarborough died 22 May 1968 Administration York 13 August. £689. That would have to be him Kate. The age fits in. I'm not sure how far Scarborough is from Camberwell, but he may well have moved. Now to find if he married and had kids. Which site did you use to find the death information Kate? LATER: I believe he married a Mary Johnson in Scarborough, Yorks in 1925 tho have yet to find the entry. At this stage, I don't know if they had kids.
As far as Sydney Bullard senior goes,I have found out the following ..
this was recorded in Soldiers Died in the Great War as having been born in Camberwell
L/CPL Sidney BULLARD (no 14185)
7th Battalion Suffolk Regiment
Born Camberwell
Enlisted: Whitehall, S.W.
Died 28 April 1917
Killed in action
France & Flanders
So he is now sorted.
kiterunner
19-11-16, 19:23
Scarborough is a long way away from Camberwell but plenty of people move to different parts of the country. I think I looked at FreeBMD for the death registration but it should be on ancestry, FamilySearch and Findmypast too.
I looked earlier and found a wife, Mary Johnson, and a child born 1925 (?) who appears on the 1939 register, but I haven't checked out if she is dec'd. The child was with her Johnson grandparents in 1939 which led me to the dob for her mother Mary via the 1911 census and Mary's death reg. I still couldn't find Mary or Sydney in the 1939 register though (to see if his dob coincided with the Camberwell birth reg)
Oooh, I lied - I did find Mary but Sydney wasn't with her. Perhaps he was in the forces?
Mary was at 13 Bingfield Gardens, Newcastle-upon-Tyne C.B., Northumberland, England
I updated my previous message before I saw the marriage to Mary Johnson. Sorry.
When you say 1939 register, what site is that?
Thanks Merry. You'd think the same info would be on all the sites, wouldn't you?
All the different sites want your subscription. If they all had the same records we would only have to subscribe to one of them!
I looked earlier and found a wife, Mary Johnson, and a child born 1925 (?) who appears on the 1939 register, but I haven't checked out if she is dec'd. The child was with her Johnson grandparents in 1939 which led me to the dob for her mother Mary via the 1911 census and Mary's death reg. I still couldn't find Mary or Sydney in the 1939 register though (to see if his dob coincided with the Camberwell birth reg)
Mary was at 13 Bingfield Gardens, Newcastle-upon-Tyne C.B., Northumberland, England
Merry I could not find any trace of Mary Bullard in Ancestry via 1911 census, and I've no idea what the child's name was - nor when she died. I did find her under Mary Johnson tho as a 15yo. Her to-be husband Sydney Bullard (who was 5 years younger than her) was only born in 1901, so I don't think he would have been in the army at that time.
Will see if I can find her death.
kiterunner
20-11-16, 10:29
Jood, Merry was talking about the 1939 Register, not the 1911 census.
I see that the 1925 marriage between Sydney W Bullard and Mary Johnson took place in Scarborough.
Ok, this is what I did.....
FreeBMD, searched for a marriage for Sydney W Bullard. One match:
Marriages Jun 1925
Bullard Sydney W Johnson Scarbro' 9d 867
Johnson Mary Bullard Scarbro'. 9d 867
Looked for a birth of a Bullard with mmn Johnson on the same site and found one match the same year (not posting name in case she is still living).
Next I searched FMP 1939 Register for the child (knowing that a lot of records have just been released and that many living people are included in error). I found the child living in Scarborough with her Johnson grandparents. From this I was able to find the Johnson family in 1911 and be sure I was looking at the right people (because the head of house and his wife matched the grandparents from 1939):
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_28919_0587_03/31487109?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3d1911england%26so%3d2%26pcat%3 dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3dmary%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3djohnson%26gsln_x %3d1%26gskw%3dscarborough%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1% 26cp%3d4%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3d67 2&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
That census showed me Mary Johnson was born about 1906/7.
I then looked at the death indexes for Mary Bullard:
Name: Mary Bullard
Birth Date: 10 Aug 1906
Date of Registration: Oct 1995
Age at Death: 89
Registration district: Scarborough
Inferred County: Yorkshire
Register Number: B50A
District and Subdistrict: 6551B
Entry Number: 293
The death record gave me her date of birth which I then used to find her on the 1939 register, but sadly she was not with her husband. I had hoped to find them together to be sure that Sydney was the one born in Camberwell by matching his dob with his birth reg (Kate had already found that his age at death was a very good fit, but I had hoped his dob would add more certainty!).
kiterunner
20-11-16, 10:37
There is a Mary Bullard death Oct 1995 in Scarborough, and date of birth is 10 Aug 1906 which matches the Mary who Merry found on the 1939 Register - see post #31. So Sydney was 5 years older than Mary, not 5 years younger.
Edit - sorry, Merry and I were posting at the same time!
Her to-be husband Sydney Bullard was only born in 1901so I don't think he would have been in the army at that time.
Were you referring to WW1 or perhaps the 1911 census?
I meant Sydney doesn't show on the 1939 Register so perhaps he was in the services at that time (service personnel were not included).
I must have been looking at the wrong Mary Johnson, but accept now she was born in 1906. I do have her husband Sydney as being deceased in 1968, not that it doesn't explain why he wasnt around in the 1939 records.
Name: Sydney W Bullard
Birth Date: abt 1902
Date of Registration: Jun 1968
Age at Death: 66
Registration district: Scarborough
Inferred County: Yorkshire North Riding
Volume: 1b
Page: 879
Looked for a birth of a Bullard with mmn Johnson on the same site and found one match the same year (not posting name in case she is still living).
Next I searched FMP 1939 Register for the child (knowing that a lot of records have just been released and that many living people are included in error). I found the child living in Scarborough with her Johnson grandparents. From this I was able to find the Johnson family in 1911 and be sure I was looking at the right people (because the head of house and his wife matched the grandparents from 1939):
Mary can you pm the name of the child please?
I think you have both solved every aspect of the family now, tho I would have liked to know what children Sydney & Mary had.
Thanks heaps for your persistence.
I will pm you with the name of the child.
There is a death registration Apr-Jun 1968 Scarborough for Sydney W Bullard age 66. Looking on the probate search site, I found the following for 1968:
BULLARD Sydney William of 4 Hibernia St Scarborough died 22 May 1968 Administration York 13 August. £689.
__________________
KiteRunner
Do you think the Will would be available for Sydney?
Yes, a will is a public document so you can order a copy of it.
This is the site Kate searched for it on:
https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/?advancedSearch=True&IsGrantSearch=True#wills
You can order a copy there too. When you open the first page, switch the white tab from "Wills and Probate 1996 to present" to "Wills and Probate 1858-1966" before you start!
kiterunner
21-11-16, 22:00
It isn't a will, just an administration.
lol I didn't notice that!!
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