Mary Ann Perfect

[CuriousKat]

Evening all,

I'm trying to fill out an ancestor wonder if you can find her after 1881?

Mary Ann Perfect b Rockland Norfolk, 1861 to Caroline Perfect (1842-1934)
1861 she is living in Rockland with her grandmother (Mary Ann) & mother
187 she is in Besthorpe with her mother now Caroline Butters & her half siblings.
1881 she is a laundress visiting Frances Johnson in Besthorpe.

I loose her after that.

hope you can help.
J

[kiterunner]

I have been searching, but no luck so far.

[Merry]

I think I've found her, but need to confirm a couple of things first....

[Merry]

On ancestry there is this baptism:

Norfolk, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1915

Besthorpe, Norfolk

12 July 1885 William Henry Perfect born 1882 the son of Mary Ann Perfect now Smith Address Besthorpe, no occ listed.

Despite the "now Smith" bit, I can't find a marriage between 1882 and 1885 (I've not looked outside this date range yet).

Then there is this family, and I've confirmed the mmn for the younger children is Perfect:

1891:

Norwich Road, Attleborough

George Smith head m 34 Ag Lab b Bunwell, Norfolk
Mary Ann Smith wife m 29 b Besthorpe ditto
William son 8 scholar b do
Hannah? dau 6 do b do
John son 4 do b do
Edith dau 2 b do
Henry son 9mths b do

In 1901 they are in Horsford. George isn't at home, but Mary is listed as wife. This has confused ancestry's transcription and so they have the head as Isaac Smith and Mary Ann as just Ann. Mary Ann still says Besthorpe as her birth place, which is four miles from Rockland which was the place she gave on earlier censuses. She was also living at Besthorpe more than once I think.

[Merry]

Here's a link to the 1901 census:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/NFKRG13_1830_1832-0675/10450845?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dRAw418%26_phstart%3dsucce ssSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3duki1901%26so%3d2 %26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsln%3dsmith%26gsln_x%3d1%26msbdy%3d1896%26msbdy_x %3d1%26msbdp%3d5%26gskw%3dbesthorpe%26gskw_x%3d1%2 6cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d4%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%2 6uidh%3d672&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

I wonder if George and Mary Ann may have died by 1911 as I've found three of the children from 1901 plus another born after 1901 lodging together here:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2352/rg14_11243_0227_03?pid=53717888&backurl=//search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DRAw426%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource %26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3D1911England% 26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26gsfn%3Dern est%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Dsmith%26gsln_x%3D1%26msb dy%3D1898%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D2%26gskw%3Dnorfo lk%26gskw_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3D672%26pcat%3D3 5%26fh%3D4%26h%3D53717888%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D 5&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=RAw426&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[Merry]

I still can't find a Smith/Perfect marriage at any date.

I have not found Smith/Perfect birth registrations for all the children; maybe half, but the ones I did find do seem right. I am trying to watch The Apprentice at the same time!

[Merry]

SMITH, EDITH ALICE mmn PERFECT
GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in WAYLAND Volume 04B Page 254

SMITH, HENRY mmn PERFECT
GRO Reference: 1890 S Quarter in WAYLAND Volume 04B Page 238

SMITH, EMMA mmn PERFECT
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in WAYLAND Volume 04B Page 240

SMITH, ROSA MAY mmn PERFECT
GRO Reference: 1894 J Quarter in FOREHOE Volume 04B Page 194

I definitely can't find the others, but I suppose I've not tried variable spellings for Perfect.

[Merry]

Here's another one:

SMITH, JOHN mmn PARFETT
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in WAYLAND Volume 04B Page 273

[Merry]

This is just from the ordinary GRO index:

William Henry Parfict
1882 Jul-Aug-Sep Wayland 4b 249

[Merry]

SMITH, LILY mmn PARFECT
GRO Reference: 1896 M Quarter in FOREHOE Volume 04B Page 2

[Merry]

I can't see the birth reg for Ernest or Hannah (who may not actually be Hannah, it wasn't clear on the census), but this looks like the last known child, listed as Mabel in 1911:

SMITH, FLORENCE MABEL mmn PARFICT
GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in ST FAITH'S Volume 04B Page 98

[CuriousKat]

Thank you Merry, the baptism sounds good. I am just off to work so will have a look when i get home.

[Merry]

Ah, and if there was any question of Mrs Mary Ann Smith not being the right Miss Perfect, this confirms things....

This daughter:

SMITH, EMMA mmn PERFECT
GRO Reference: 1892 D Quarter in WAYLAND Volume 04B Page 240

doesn't appear with the Smith family in 1901, so I was looking for a death for her, but didn't find one.

I now see she was still alive in 1901 and appears on the census as the granddaughter of Caroline Butters :D:

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/NFKRG13_1867_1869-0114?pid=10652544&backurl=//search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DolH783%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource %26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Duki1901%26gs s%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26 gsfn%3Demma%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Dsmith%26gsln_x%3 D1%26msbdy%3D1893%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D1%26gskw %3Dnorfolk%26gskw_x%3D1%26cpxt%3D1%26cp%3D4%26catb ucket%3Drstp%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3D672%26pcat%3D35%2 6fh%3D2%26h%3D10652544%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D3&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=olH783&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

[CuriousKat]

Merry, you are a genius! i don't know how i didn't add it up before! probably because Caroline & her children are beyond tricky with changing names!
:-)

[CuriousKat]

service records here for henry 1890
does it say his brother Ernest is in the workhouse? I couldn't make it out.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1219/30600_192627-01074?pid=1783739&backurl=//search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26db%3DBritishArmyService%26h%3D 1783739%26tid%3D%26pid%3D%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26usePUB Js%3Dtrue%26rhSource%3D6598&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=30600_192627-01077

[kiterunner]

It says "brothers younger Ernest, The Union, St Faiths" so yes, I guess that would be the workhouse.

[Merry]

The dau I called Hannah (b 1884/5) seems to actually be called Indianna (I found her through the mention in the army record and the letter she wrote in 1916):


Birth: SMITH, TUDIN ANN mmn PERFECT
GRO Reference: 1884 S Quarter in MUTFORD AND LOTHINGLAND Volume 04A Page 904

Marriage 1909 Indianna to Edmund R Booty

1939 Register Indianna Booty b 1 July 1884

Deaths Mar 1966 BOOTY INDIANA 81 NORWICH O 4B 975

[CuriousKat]

Note to self.... don't google Indiana Booty!! Comes up with lot's of X rated suff!

[CuriousKat]

The dau I called Hannah (b 1884/5) seems to actually be called Indianna (I found her through the mention in the army record and the letter she wrote in 1916):


Birth: SMITH, TUDIN ANN mmn PERFECT
GRO Reference: 1884 S Quarter in MUTFORD AND LOTHINGLAND Volume 04A Page 904

Marriage 1909 Indianna to Edmund R Booty

1939 Register Indianna Booty b 1 July 1884

Deaths Mar 1966 BOOTY INDIANA 81 NORWICH O 4B 975

There is a baptism for Indiana but it notes the father as James Smith!!
Indiana Smith
Birth Date: 1 Jul 1884
Baptism Date: 12 Jul 1885
Baptism Place: Besthorpe, Norfolk, England
Parish as it Appears: Besthorpe

[Merry]

Note to self.... don't google Indiana Booty!! Comes up with lot's of X rated suff!

lolol!!

Actually, re George being James, if you do a search at Besthorpe with father James and Mother Mary you will find at least four of the children bap at different times (I wouldn't be surprised if there are others in different birth parishes). So I wonder what the dad's official first name was? I looked for a James Smith/Perfect marriage but nothing.

Off out shortly........

[Merry]

Must dash.....but is this them? There's an image but I've not looked at it.

Name:
James Smith
Gender:
Male
Age:
30
Birth Year:
1863
Marriage Date:
27 Aug 1893
Marriage Place:
Thorpe Hamlet, Norfolk, England
Parish as it Appears:
Thorpe
Household Members
Name

John Smith

William Perfett

James Smith

Mary Ann Perfett

[Merry]

It's them - see the witnesses!

[Merry]

As I couldn't see a George dying right age/place I looked for James (which does seem to be his birth name) and found this one which looks likely:

Deaths Dec 1904
SMITH James 47 St. Faiths 4b 57

Not so sure about Mary Ann's death/remarriage though.

[CuriousKat]

Merry you are a supers star!! this is amazing! & she lists a father, which is odd as his name is the same as Caroline's maiden name!
If you are up to it i am trying to find out what happened to Caroline's 1st husband Thomas Haylett, born Besthorpe, Norfolk 1837 to Avis Garrard & John Howes. I have him on he 1841/51/61 census returns living in Besthorpe. He Married Caroline Perfect in 1863 Besthorpe & divorced her in 1872. There were baptisms for Emma Haylett 1866 & James William 1868. (Not actually his biological children though), i've always been curious as to what happened to him.

[Merry]

I'll have a look at him later.

re Mary Ann naming a father - I expect William Perfect was just a made up name, or the name of some other close relative, not her father. People often didn't like to admit to being illegitimate! If she did know the name of her biological father, it's possible his first name was William and she just let the vicar assume the surname was Perfect, given Mary Ann was a spinster!

[Merry]

If you are up to it i am trying to find out what happened to Caroline's 1st husband Thomas Haylett, born Besthorpe, Norfolk 1837 to Avis Garrard & John Howes. I have him on he 1841/51/61 census returns living in Besthorpe. He Married Caroline Perfect in 1863 Besthorpe & divorced her in 1872. There were baptisms for Emma Haylett 1866 & James William 1868. (Not actually his biological children though), i've always been curious as to what happened to him.

Well, I can't find him in 1841/51 or 1861 in Besthorpe and why do neither of his parents have his surname? I can't find an Avis in Besthorpe either, so at the moment I'm confused and I don't want to go chasing the wrong man! What's the father's details on the marriage cert?

I see on Rootschat there is a suggestion Thomas went to Australia. Have you looked for his death there yet?

[Merry]

I see another thread says I should have been looking for Thomas Howes. No wonder I couldn't find him!

Anyway, searching the available Australian death records must e the way to go, but I'm not doing that until I know you haven't!! lol

[CuriousKat]

I see another thread says I should have been looking for Thomas Howes. No wonder I couldn't find him!

Anyway, searching the available Australian death records must e the way to go, but I'm not doing that until I know you haven't!! lol

Hi Merry, I could see nothing for him in Australia.
Avis is odd! She was baptised 31/5/1807 transcription error Havers Haylett, base daughter of Rebecca Haylett otherwise Sayers spinster, in 1810 another child Matilda Garrod is baptised at the same church parents John/Rebecca mother late Haylett spinster. They married 23/6/1807.

Thomas is down as Howes 1841-61 in Besthorpe reverts to his legal name to marry Caroline in 1863.

Hope that clears up my muddy family!