Elizabeth Cockayne

[CuriousKat]

Good evening,
Can any one help me find details on Elizabeth Cockayne b Sheffield appx 1851. She Married John Savery/Savory in Sheffield 1872, no father listed on the marriage certificate although the witness is Amelia Cockayne & Farewell Oxley. (they later married, Amelia listed John Cockayne as her father) in later census records Elizabeth (now going by Annie Elizabeth) children are living with the Oxleys. Amelia's mum is Harriet Barker/Cockayne/Rich/Sorby!!
I can't find Elizabeth until the 1881 census. Hope you can help i've gone positively cross eyed trying to figure out who she belongs too!:confused: Just to confuse things on her burial record of 1918 she is listed as Elizabeth Ellen!

hope you can help.

[kiterunner]

So I assume this is them in 1901:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7814/YRKRG13_4375_4377-0145/27869575?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

2 ct 3 house Apple St, Brightside Bierlow, Sheffield, Yorkshire
John Savoury Head M 53 Carter Lanc Warrington
Annie Elizabeth Do Wife M 50 Yorks Sheffield
John Do Son S 31 Do Do Feeble minded
Francis Savoury Son S 5 Yorks Sheffield
Mary Ann Twates Visitor M 42 Do Do
Frederick Do Visitor M 43 Slater Do Do

and 1891, same address:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/WRYRG12_3830_3831-0118/5870087?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
John Savvorey Head Married 43 General Labourer Warrington Lanc
Elizabeth Savvorey Wife Do 41 Sheffield
John Savvorey Son 17 Do Imbecile
William Savvorey Do 6 Do
Peter Savvorey Do 3 Do

I can't see them in 1881 though; could you post a link or transcription please? I realise that you already have the above but it helps us to search if we have all the information available.

[kiterunner]

And this is Amelia with her family in 1851 (again, I realise you will already have this):
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/YRKHO107_2339_2339-0407/14163432?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
33 Dun Fields, Sheffield
John Cockayne Head Mar 42 File Grinder Yorkshire Sheffield
Harriet Do Wife Mar 35 Derbyshire Eckington
William Wallis Apprentice U 18 File Grinder App Yorkshire Sheffield
Frances Cockayne Daur U 13 Do Do
John Do Son 10 Do Do
George Do Son 7 Do Do
Amelia Do Daur 4 Do Do
Charles Do Son 8 mo Do Do

1861:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/WRYRG9_3498_3500-0282/11610966?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Greystock Street, Brightside Bierlow, Sheffield
Samuel Sorby Head Mar 54 Iron Moulder Yorkshire Attercliffe
Harriet Do Wife Mar 45 Derbyshire Eckington
Francis Do Daur 24 Yorkshire Sheffield
Emilia Do Daur 15 Do Do
Ann Do Daur 4 Do Do
Samuel Liddle Boarder Mar 29 Do Do
Emma Do Do Mar 23 Do Attercliffe

and 1871:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/WRYRG10_4695_4697-0214/28497589?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
Saville St East, Brightside Bierlow, Sheffield
Harriett Rich Head W 55 Annuitant Eckington Derbyshire
Frances Cockayne Daur Unm 33 Bolt Screwer Sheffield Yorkshire
Amelia Do Daur Unm 25 Do Do Do Do
Ann Do Daur 14 Do Do
Charles Do Son 6 Do Do
Mary Do Daur 3 Do Do

I guess Ann is too young to be Annie Elizabeth, if the census ages are accurate.

Harriet in 1881 though not much help - but Ann is not with her:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/WRYRG11_4661_4664-0638/25657192?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fgst%3d-6&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[kiterunner]

Again, you already have this, but the marriage certificate is on Findmypast:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fyorkshire%2fenglyor1d_pr-138-3-95%2f00052&parentid=gbprs%2fyorkshire%2fmar%2f302012186%2f1&highlights=%22%22
Elizabeth is age 18, spinster, residence Allen Street (same place as John Savery).

[Merry]

Just in case anyone else is thrashing about looking - Mary Ann Twates (Thwaites) was nee Savory (m 1876)!

[kiterunner]

I'm wondering whether Elizabeth is Ann and claimed to be older than she really was?

[CuriousKat]

Morning, sorry for the delay
here is Elizabeth on the 1881 census
Name: Ann Savory
Age: 24
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: John Savory
Gender: Female
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Street address: Court 9 5 House Smithfield
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Sheffield
Sub registration district: North Sheffield
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4646
Folio: 35
Page Number: 19
Household Members:
Name Age
John Savory 29 he lists Sheffield as his place of birth when it was in fact Warrington
Ann Savory 24
William Savory 8
John Savory 6
David Savory 4
Frances Savory 3

Elizabeth seemed to be very unsure of her age as in the census returns it varies greatly!
i wonder if the answer lies in the connection between Amelia & Elizabeth, but again i just can't see it.

[kiterunner]

Oh, so if she is 24 on the 1881 census, she could well be Ann Cockayne who is 14 on the 1871, couldn't she?

[Merry]

I'm wondering whether Elizabeth is Ann and claimed to be older than she really was?

For what it's worth, yesterday I looked at what was probably her 1918 death reg (I didn't look at the burial mentioned here to confirm the Q) and she was significantly younger on that.

[Merry]

If she was v young at the marriage (15??) perhaps she didn't give a father's name in case someone contacted him about her youthfulness? Then someone else would have to give consent as she said she was 18. I thought if a parent wasn't able to give consent a court had to do it?

Sorry I'm rambling as I have to dash out and don't have time to check anything!

[CuriousKat]

But then samuel sorby could be the father but he isn't listed on her marriage cert? unless i think John Cockayne was buried 17/6/1856 Harriet could of been pregnant with Ann when he died??

[CuriousKat]

If she was v young at the marriage (15??) perhaps she didn't give a father's name in case someone contacted him about her youthfulness? Then someone else would have to give consent as she said she was 18. I thought if a parent wasn't able to give consent a court had to do it?

Sorry I'm rambling as I have to dash out and don't have time to check anything!

I ramble all the time :p

1881 C she put down birth 1857, in 1891 it was 1850, 1901c 1851 & 1911c she put down 1856, the marriage places her as 1854 & if she is Ann that would place her birth at 1856/7 & the death dates her birth as 1857

So she was 15 & John says on the wedding cert he was 20 but was actually 24, 10 years older than 15 year old Elizabeth/Ann ?
;(:confused:;(:confused:

[CuriousKat]

I ramble all the time :p

1881 C she put down birth 1857, in 1891 it was 1850, 1901c 1851 & 1911c she put down 1856, the marriage places her as 1854 & if she is Ann that would place her birth at 1856/7 & the death dates her birth as 1857

So she was 15 & John says on the wedding cert he was 20 but was actually 24, 10 years older than 15 year old Elizabeth/Ann ?
;(:confused:;(:confused:

[kiterunner]

If she was v young at the marriage (15??) perhaps she didn't give a father's name in case someone contacted him about her youthfulness? Then someone else would have to give consent as she said she was 18. I thought if a parent wasn't able to give consent a court had to do it?

They got married by banns, and I have read that if the banns were read and there was no objection, that could be taken as proof that the parents consented.


So she was 15 & John says on the wedding cert he was 20 but was actually 24, 10 years older than 15 year old Elizabeth/Ann ?


So it could be that they both adjusted their ages to reduce the apparent age difference.

[kiterunner]

There is an Ann Elizabeth Cockayne birth registration Oct-Dec 1856 Sheffield, shown as Brightside district on the Sheffield BMD site.

[CuriousKat]

So to confirm we think
Annie Elizabeth Savory was born Ann Elizabeth Cockayne daughter of Harriett & John & sister to Amelia Cockayne, she married as Elizabeth Cockayne & was born in 1857 , died in 1918 as Elizabeth Ellen, though if you asked her she will tell you anywhere between 1850/1857!!

[Merry]

Yes. Also, Herbert Savory is listed as nephew in the Oxley household in 1891, so I think that confirms things too :)

[kiterunner]

So to confirm we think
Annie Elizabeth Savory was born Ann Elizabeth Cockayne daughter of Harriett & John & sister to Amelia Cockayne, she married as Elizabeth Cockayne & was born in 1857 , died in 1918 as Elizabeth Ellen, though if you asked her she will tell you anywhere between 1850/1857!!

Looks like she was born in 1856, not 1857, if that birth registration I found was the right one.