Samuel Allen

[Melnick]

Trying to find his Samuel Allen (Birth 13 OCT. 1746 • Orange County, NC Death 1843). He was married too, Sarah Armstrong Allen. That's all I have on her.
I found Samuel Allen's name in a book called North American Family History Book 1500-2000.
Samuel and Sarah had a son named George Walker Allen Birth 1793 • Georgia and Death ABT 1890 • Harris, Georgia. Thank you.

[Merry]

I just found this reply to your Q on another site:

http://www.familytreecircles.com/samuel-allen-birth-13-oct-1746-orange-county-nc-death-1843-trying-to-find-his-father-he-was-married-too-sarah-armstrong-allen-that-s-all-i-have-on-her-65569.html

I presume that is your George? He says his parents were born in Georgia.

[Melnick]

That's George Walker Allen 1793–1890, Samuels son. But I am looking for Samuel Allen's father. Sorry if I some how made a mistake explaining myself, I am very new to this. I am waiting for DNA results, but I don't think that will help me with this problem. Thanks for the help.

[Merry]

I realise you are looking for Samuel's father, but I was just pointing out that in your post you say Samuel was born in North Carolina but his son says he (Samuel) was born in Georgia:


from George W Allen's 1880 census entry:

Father's Birthplace Georgia, United States
Mother's Birthplace Georgia, United States

So, is your source for Samuel being born in NC correct, or is his son correct in the info he gave for the census?

What is your source for Samuel and his wife, Sarah, being the parents of George W Allen?

[kiterunner]

I agree that we need to start by looking at George to see what information we can find about his birth and his parents.

1850 US census
Osborn Mill, Harris County, Georgia
George W Allen 56 Farmer Ga
Mary " 53 "
William " 34 Farmer "
Leodecia 13 "
George W " 11 "
William " 5 "
Andrew J 3 "

An ancestry member has "corrected" George's birthplace to South Carolina, giving the reason as a transcription error, but it does say Ga on the image. I clicked to view the profile of the person who put in the correction, and they do say that the Allens are in their family tree, but I couldn't find them by searching any of that person's ancestry trees so I couldn't see what information they have about George and his family. You could try contacting them if you haven't already?

[kiterunner]

1870 US census
Harris County, Georgia
Allen George W 77 Farmer Georgia
Temperance 61 Keeping House Virginia
William G 54 Farm Laborer Georgia
Nancy A 18 " " "
Philip 15 " " "

It looks as though Temperance could be a second wife, and perhaps if we could find their marriage, it might give information about George's parents? I did look at the 1860 US census entry but it is a bit difficult to make out so I will leave that till later. I don't think George had a wife with him on that one though.

[kiterunner]

1860 US census as best as I can make it out:

Harris County, Georgia
Geo W Allen 67 M Geo
Ledicia 25 F "
W T " 16 M "
A G " 14 M "
Nancy " 8 F "
M F " 5 M "

[kiterunner]

1880
Blue Spring, Harris County, Georgia
Allen George W 87 married, Pauper, disabled, born Ga, both parents born Ga
Tempie 80 wife, married, house keeper, born NC, both parents born NC
Williaim 65 son, single, idiotic, born Ga, father born Ga, mother born NC
Miller Sarah 45, widow / divorced, Laundress, born Ga, both parents born Ga

[Merry]

There's an Ancestry tree which has Samuel Allen (different terminal dates to the ones you mentioned) and Sarah Armstrong and a whole lot of children for them, the last of which is George Walker Allen. However he doesn't seem to be your George Walker Allen as his details (from this tree - I've not checked anything) are:

born 1781 Orange County North Carolina
wife Mary Lucy Garvey 1781-1830 (marriage details unknown)
children
Susan Garvey Allen 1816
Sara Allen 1817
George Allen 1818
died 1821 Richmond County Georgia

[kiterunner]

I found George's marriage to Tempie on ancestry but it doesn't give much helpful information, apart from confirming that she is not the same person as Mary:
State of Georgia, Harris County
George W Allen and Tempty Ridgedill married 14 May 1861

[kiterunner]

I found this on ancestry:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1133/miusa1814_114104-00338/77134?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2 fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dWHR1352%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dwarof1812_pensi on%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROOT_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dgeo *%2b%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dal*n%26gsln_x%3d1%26mss ng%3dtemp*%26mssng_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d12%26ca tbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

War of 1812 Pension Application Files Index, 1812-1815 for George W Allin
War of 1812
Soldier: Allin, George W
Numbers: S.O. 26634, S.C. 18606, W.O. 40932, W.C. 31975
Bounty Land: 29520-40-50 (Cancelled) 33142-120-55 Duplicate
Widow: Allin, Tempty
Service: Pvt., Capt. J. F. Cox's Co., Ga. Mil.
Enlisted: Oct 11, 1814
Discharged: Dec 23, 1814
Residence of soldier: 1850, 1855 Harris Co, Ga. 1872, Harris Co., (P.O. Whitesville) Ga
Residence of widow: 1881, Harris Co., (P.O. Hamilton) Ga
Maiden name of widow: Soldier's first wife Mary Whitehead
Tempty - ? (1st mar. Ridgedill)
Marriage of soldier and widow: May 14, 1861, Harris Co., Ga
Death of soldier: Feb 13, 1881, Harris Co., Ga
Remarks: Original discharge Certificate in brief
Cancelled duplicate B.L.W. 33142-120 - 55 in brief.

[kiterunner]

I remember from another thread fairly recently that Georgia birth records seem to be hard to come by. I would love to find something to confirm George's middle name at least! Everything I have looked at so far just has his middle initial. Not managed to find a record of his marriage to Mary Whitehead yet - it's just possible that might give a clue to his parents if we can find it.

[kiterunner]

There is a 1820 US census record for a George W Allen at Athens, Clarke County, Georgia: 3 boys under 10, 1 26-45 (I think it is), 1 girl under 10, 1 woman 16-26. The next household is James Whitehead, 1 man 16-26, 1 woman 16-26. Also on the page are several other Whiteheads, and a Phillip Allen age over 45 with a woman age over 45.

So this could possibly be the same George.

[Merry]

Death of soldier: Feb 13, 1881, Harris Co., Ga


So not 1890 as in the opening post.

I don't usually have any need for US records, so I don't have any US subs. Would his burial be anywhere we can look? I wondered if that might show his middle name?

[kiterunner]

So not 1890 as in the opening post.

I don't usually have any need for US records, so I don't have any US subs. Would his burial be anywhere we can look? I wondered if that might show his middle name?

I've been looking on various sites but not found anything yet.

[kiterunner]

George W Allin is in Clarke County, Georgia, on the 1830 census and then in 1840 G W Allen is in Templetons District, Harris County, Georgia. I think it will be the same person. Phillip Allen is still in Clarke County in 1830 and I can't find him in 1840. (Thinking he could be George's father - George did name one of his sons Phillip, or maybe a grandson?)

Numbers in George's household:
1830 males under 5: 1, 5-10: 1, 10-15: 2, 15-20: 1, 30-40: 1
females under 5: 3, 20-30: 1.

1840 males under 5: 1, 10-15: 1, 16-20: 1, 20-30: 3, 50-60: 1,
females under 5: 1, 10-15: 1, 16-20: 1, 40-50: 1

[kiterunner]

The "Roster of Revolutionary Soldiers in Georgia" (on ancestry), has these entries:

PHILIP ALLEN drew bounty land for Rev. service in Va. while living in Clarke Co, Ga, 1835, age 76.

Names of Revolutionary soldiers who drew land in Georgia in the "lottery of 1827" and the counties of Georgia in which they lived: Allen, Philip... Clark

[kiterunner]

Philip Allen of Georgia is listed in the US Pensioners 1818-1872:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1116/T718_8-0374/32612?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

His rank was Private and his pension payments go from 1831 to 1836, so I assume he (or his widow?) died late 1836 or early 1837.

But what we need is to find something to prove or disprove that he was George's father.

[kiterunner]

There is some personal testimony from Philip Allen about his Revolutionary War service here, but it doesn't mention his wife and children,although it does say that he was born in Virginia:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1995/MIUSA1775D_134611-00531/1101?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2f cgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dWHR1431%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3drevwarpbountyla ndgrants%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d39%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dphil*%26 gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dal*n%26gsln_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%2 6MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gskw%3dgeorgia%26gskw_x%3d1%26cpxt %3d1%26cp%3d12%26catbucket%3drstp&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=MIUSA1775D_ 134611-00536

If he does turn out to be your ancestor it should be very interesting indeed.

[kiterunner]

I'm not sure what this means, but the Georgia Property Tax Digests for 1818, Clarke County, Capt. Moore's District, has Phillip Allen and George W Allen listed:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1729/40141_1220705227_0538-00226/4770903?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dnrL82%26_phstart%3dsucces sSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dgeorgia1890propta xdigests%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dphil*%26 gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dall%253fn%26gsln_x%3d1%26MSAV% 3d2%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gskw%3dclark*%26gskw_x%3d1%26 cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d12%26catbucket%3drstp%26gl%3d%26gs t%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d10%26fsk%3dBED8hlQIgAAGwQABI oo-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

They are also listed together in 1815 in Captain Tramel's district, and 1816-1817 in Captain Middleton's.

[kiterunner]

I haven't managed to find anything to prove or disprove whether George W Allen was the son of Phillip Allen, but I wonder whether there could be any land records which are not online which might help? Also if you look at public trees on ancestry or google for Phillip Allen Clarke County Georgia, you should be able to find other people researching him who you could contact to see whether they have any information to help.

Edit - that is, assuming that George W Allen born around 1794 is definitely your ancestor?

[Merry]

Edit - that is, assuming that George W Allen born around 1794 is definitely your ancestor?

That's the bit that's been bothering me having read the other thread on here posted by Melnick. However, this thread doesn't actually say that George or Samuel are ancestors, so maybe it's OK?

[kiterunner]

Maybe I should have said, assuming that it is George W Allen born around 1794 who you want to trace back.

[Melnick]

What I have on Samuel I found in a passage in the book;North America, Family Histories, 1500-2000, pg 167.

[kiterunner]

That database is on ancestry but it seems to consist of a large number of books, each of which will have a page number 167, and none of my searches are coming up with the information that you have quoted. Can you give any information on what the title is at the top of the page 167 that you have found, please?

Also, it looks as though North America Family Histories 1500-2000 consists of information submitted by family history researchers and the accuracy of the information included is likely to vary.

[Merry]

What relation to you do you think Samuel is?

[Melnick]

Pendarvis-bedon family

[Melnick]

4TH Great grandfather

[kiterunner]

Right, thanks, so this is what it says in the book:

Alice Screven Guerard was born July 16, 1826, and died September 21, 1876. She married May 11, 1843, Reverend George Allen, born September 22, 1818, died June 28, 1872, son of George Allen and Mary Lucia, daughter of Michael Garvey and Susannah Stoll. George Allen was son of Samuel Allen of Orange County, North Carolina, and Sarah Armstrong.

So the George Allen, son of Samuel and Sarah, mentioned here, is not the George W Allen born about 1793 who died in Harris County, Georgia.

[kiterunner]

I should add that I don't see a connection with the Allen family in your other thread on here. Is there a connection, or do you have more than one Allen line in your tree?

[Merry]

So the George Allen, son of Samuel and Sarah, mentioned here, is not the George W Allen born about 1793 who died in Harris County, Georgia.

I agree.

I should add that I don't see a connection with the Allen family in your other thread on here. Is there a connection, or do you have more than one Allen line in your tree?

Ah, I hadn't thought of there being more than one Allen line in the tree :)

[Melnick]

Died in Harris County

February 24, 1881

Harris County, Georgia

For George I am unclear the date of his date. Not sure where this came from but A few days ago Mr. George Allen, one of the oldest citizents of Harris County, died at his residence near Mountain Hill. He was over eighty years of age, and was a good citizen and highly respected by those who knew him. He was a memeber of the Methodist Church, and lived a consistent life. There is perhaps not a man who has been a candidiate for office in Harris County for the past forty years that does not know him, as he was always one of the election managers. His death was the result of general debility.

This article was in the Daily Enquirer-Sun

This came from ancestry. I had the that wrong date on George and have changed it. Thank you.

[Melnick]

Let me get this straight. What everybody is saying is that I might be tapping into another Allen's tree. Am I in the ballpark?

[Merry]

On your other thread you say you are a direct descendant of William Geer Allen Sr 1818-1880. On this thread you refer to George W Allen b 1793. I don't know if you are thinking George is William's father if you are saying Samuel is your 4xg-grandfather?

If you look at the various census records on this thread for George you will see he has a son William in his house roughly the same age as William Geer Allen, but on the other thread William G Allen has a wife Rachel and isn't living with his father.

[Melnick]

Samuel Allen
1746–1843
Birth 13 OCT. 1746 • Orange County, NC
Death 1843
4th great-grandfather

George Walker Allen
1793–1881
Birth 1793 • Georgia
Death 14 FEB 1881 • Harris, Georgia
3rd great-grandfather

William Greer Allen
1818–1890
Birth 1818 • , , Georgia, USA
Death 1890 • , Laurens, Georgia, USA
2nd great-grandfather

Uriah Thomas Allen
1863–1929
Birth 27 NOVEMBER 1863 • Georgia, USA
Death 5 JANUARY 1929 • Montgomery County, Georgia, USA
great-grandfather

This is what I have. I am still having some issues with date, but I am close on most of them. For William G Allen, I have a marriage certificate on him. Thanks for all the help from everybody. Its gets you to thinking about dates and all.

[Merry]

OK, so this is the 1870 census showing Uriah with his parents:

1870 US census
Laurens Georgia
W G Allen M 54 Farmer Georgia <<<<<< you say this is the son of George
Rachel Allen F 42 Keeping House Georgia
Edman C Allen M 24 Farm laborer Georgia
Julia A Allen F 23 Georgia
Wm G Allen M 20 Georgia
David Allen M 18 Georgia
John F Allen M 15 Georgia
Bryant Allen M 13 Georgia
Uriah J Allen M 8 Georgia
Rachel Allen F 6 Georgia
H T Hester F 73 Midwife Georgia

And (below) copied from post #6 on this thread , the man you say is Uriah's paternal grandfather, George W, with his second wife Temperance. 'William G 54 farm labourer' is George's son (confirmed by the 1880 census where relationships are given) and therefor isn't the head of household in the above census.

1870 US census
Harris County, Georgia
Allen George W 77 Farmer Georgia
Temperance 61 Keeping House Virginia
William G 54 Farm Laborer Georgia <<<<<<<< this is George's son!
Nancy A 18 " " "
Philip 15 " " "

[Merry]

Also, for what it's worth, I think Kiterunner has proved on this thread that these two are not father and son:

Samuel Allen
1746–1843
Birth 13 OCT. 1746 • Orange County, NC
Death 1843
4th great-grandfather

George Walker Allen
1793–1881
Birth 1793 • Georgia
Death 14 FEB 1881 • Harris, Georgia
3rd great-grandfather

but that may be irrelevant if these two are also not father and son:

George Walker Allen
1793–1881
Birth 1793 • Georgia
Death 14 FEB 1881 • Harris, Georgia
3rd great-grandfather

William Greer Allen
1818–1890
Birth 1818 • , , Georgia, USA
Death 1890 • , Laurens, Georgia, USA
2nd great-grandfather

[kiterunner]

We spent quite some time trying to trace William Greer Allen's parents on the other thread, and came to the conclusion that H T Hester from the 1870 census - Hulda or Huldy - was his mother and that his father was either her first husband who must have died before 1819 (when she married Henry Gay) or a Mr Allen who she was not actually married to, perhaps John Allen who is near them on some of the censuses. I can't see any reason for thinking that his father was called George? Or did you find something which isn't on that thread? But even if his father was called George, George W Allen 1793-1881 seems to have been married to Mary Whitehead by 1820 and I can't see any connection between him and your William G Allen. Sorry.

[Melnick]

I will leave it alone for now. I was able to weed out some mistakes I made from the help I got from everybody here. I just got back my DNA so maybe that will help.