James A Savory

[CuriousKat]

Hello all, wonder if you could help trace a relative?
James A Savory
Name: James A Savory
Mother's Maiden Name: Crosby
Registration Year: 1913
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district: York
Inferred County: Yorkshire East Riding
Volume: 9d
Page: 61
His mother was called Eva Savory nee Crosby his father could either be William Savoury, or Frederick Gilbert. I don't have his birth certificate as i ordered his brother's & no fathers name was listed his surname was Savory but it turned out his father was Frederick Gilbert!
He may have changed his name by deed poll as his brother did but i can not find a record!
What i do know, he married a lady who was referred to as Aunty Lil,
they had no children.
he had several siblings either Gilberts or Savourys
He was in the armed forces, unknown branch his brother was a Royal Marine.
He resided in the Wolverhampton area, the rest of his family were York & Stoke on Trent.

I found a marriage between a James A Savoury & a Lilian Beatrice Thompson in Warwick 1950 but this not the right chap, this record also showed a dissolved marriage to Emily Blakeborough.( It shows him as being born in 1907 & father as James Alfred Savoury)
I have tried different spelling variations of the name Savory as researching the family has found the name consistently changes!

I have posted elsewhere about this but often fresh eyes can solve the problem. http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=716801.msg5605302#msg5605302

Hope you can help.

[kiterunner]

I'm not convinced that the Warwick marriage is not your James, as he could have added a few years to his age to fit better with Lilian's age, and it is not uncommon for a bride or groom who was illegitimate to invent a father's name on their marriage certificate. I can't find a James Alfred Savoury who could be the father of that bridegroom at the moment, nor a James Alfred Savo(u)ry who was born about 1907.

Army records for the period when he would have served are not available online.

[kiterunner]

The James Alfred Savoury who died 17 Apr 1986 has date of birth 9 Nov 1912, according to the death registration index, and lived at 1 East Gro Leamington Spa, according to the National Probate Calendar (he didn't leave a will; his estate went to administration.) His death was registered in "Mid Warwickshire" district, as was that of Lilian Beatrice Savoury in Apr 1992, with her date of birth shown as 14 Feb 1905. She doesn't come up on the National Probate Calendar.

So doesn't it look likely that your James is the one who married Lilian Beatrice?

[CuriousKat]

Thank you, it's horrid when dates don't match up! I've tried looking for him on the 1939 register but not found anything. His mother was married to William Savoury whom it appeared abandoned the family & she took up with a much older gentleman Frederick Gilbert, some of her children are born with the Savoury name but were in fact Gilberts.

[kiterunner]

If he was already serving in the armed forces at the time of the 1939 Register, he would not be included in it.

[CuriousKat]

The James Alfred Savoury who died 17 Apr 1986 has date of birth 9 Nov 1912, according to the death registration index, and lived at 1 East Gro Leamington Spa, according to the National Probate Calendar (he didn't leave a will; his estate went to administration.) His death was registered in "Mid Warwickshire" district, as was that of Lilian Beatrice Savoury in Apr 1992, with her date of birth shown as 14 Feb 1905. She doesn't come up on the National Probate Calendar.

So doesn't it look likely that your James is the one who married Lilian Beatrice?

I keep trying to solve this :-) Is there a way to trace administration?

[kiterunner]

You can order a copy of the letters of administration, the same as you can for a will, but it costs the same amount as a will would and doesn't usually tell you much, though it will at least tell you who the administrator was.

Below is the link to the Government probate site. Click on the "Start now" button when you have read the information, then make sure to select the "Wills and Probate 1858-1996" tab before you search. Then put in surname Savoury, year of death 1986, click the Search button and you should see a page of results including James Alfred Savoury. You can copy the info over into the boxes on the right-hand side of the screen and "Add to basket" and then go to your basket and complete the order, if you think it is worth paying the £10. I think the most that you would get from it is confirmation that he was Lilian Beatrice's husband, not who his parents were. But if you also (or instead!) order a copy of your James A Savory's birth certificate you would be able to check whether your James was born on the 9th of November or not (though it would be 1913, not 1912, but dates of birth on death registrations are often wrong). I looked your James's birth registration up on the new GRO search facility and it shows his full name as James Alfred Savory, so at least we know his middle name was definitely Alfred now.

https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate

[CuriousKat]

Thank you.

[CuriousKat]

Hello, finally got around to ordering Lilian's probate record & you were right, it's not given me any info & i don't know where to go next with what it did give me!
Lilian Savory, Stamer house, Quarry avenue, Hartshill, Stoke on Trent. Interstate granted to Mrs Elsie Cope, 159 Harpfields, Stoke on Trent.

any advice?

[kiterunner]

Did you ever order James's birth certificate?

[CuriousKat]

No, i didn't his brothers certificate is blank on the fathers name & imagine his is the same.

[kiterunner]

If you look at post #7, the reason I suggested getting James's birth cert was to see whether his birthday was 9th Nov to match with the death registration.

[Merry]

For what it's worth, the middle name on the 1913 birth reg is A for Alfred (from the new GRO indexes).

[kiterunner]

For what it's worth, the middle name on the 1913 birth reg is A for Alfred (from the new GRO indexes).
As it says in post #7.

[Merry]

lol I remember reading that in November! Sorry!!

[CuriousKat]

If you look at post #7, the reason I suggested getting James's birth cert was to see whether his birthday was 9th Nov to match with the death registration.

You'l have to excuse me scatty is my middle name, my husband calls me Dory!!:p
It shall have to wait a wee while longer as i just purchased 2 wills.