Tracing Isaac

[vita]

I'm afraid this is another "please don't run away" moment in the search for my

Headland roots. I need to rule out this man as possible contender for 4xg/

grandfather Isaac Headland - Isaac, son of John & Catherine Headland bap

Welbourn, Lincolnshire 14 Aug 1745.John & Catherine seem to have had

another son named Isaac bap 1739 who probably died.

I don't have any subs at the moment so would be most grateful if someone

could see anything relating to Isaac 1745 which would eliminate him.

My Isaac was in London by 1776 when he married Sarah Trenley at

St George, Hanover Square. Thread 'A Stubborn Brick Wall' refers, but I won't

blame you for not going there(!)

I have details of their six children, born around Middx/Herts/Bucks.

In 1792 Isaac was bankrupt & described as a carpenter, chapman & general

dealer of Uxbridge.

In 1800 Sarah's Pauper Settlement Statement says that he had rented a

house in Tottenham Place, London, for four years but had since left it.

(not sure whether that means he had done a runner or just relocated the

family)

Apart from a 1797 appearance as witness at a family wedding at St. Botolph

Aldgate, that is all I know about Isaac - I've no idea where he came from or

what happened to him. Actually that's not quite accurate - I believe he may

have been from Lincs from something my father said many years ago & also

because a lot of Isaac Headlands seem to originate from the

Welbourn/Potterhanworth areas of that county.

I keep coming back to Isaac but never seem to get anywhere, so I think the

time may have come for a little expert guidance.

Thanks in anticipation.

[Merry]

I don't think can eliminate the 1745 Isaac. I came across this, Isaac is recorded as being a debtor on the actual document:


Record set England & Wales, Crime, Prisons & Punishment, 1770-1935
Piece number 178
Series PCOM2
Source Newgate Prison, London: lists of felons (prisoners) on the Master's Side
First name(s) Isaac
Last name Headland
Court session year 1793
Birth year -
Conviction date 1793
Archive The National Archives
Category Institutions & organisations
Subcategory Prison registers
Collections from Great Britain

It's quicker to post these things than to try and work out if you already have them!

London Lives, Culture & Society 1680-1817

First name(s) Isaac
Last name Headland
Gender Male
Year 1800
Entry date 16 Jun 1800
Extract } to wit Sarah Headland Aged about 45 years upon her Oath Saith That about 23 years ago She intermarried with Isaac Headland her present Husband at the Parish Church of Saint George Hanover Square by whom she has livi ......
View image <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<website not working so I can't do this!
Source St Clement Danes parish records
Document Pauper Examination Books/Examination Books
Document date range start 04 Jan 1799
Document date range end 31 Dec 1800
Archive reference B1193
Archive Westminster Archives Centre
Record set London Lives, Culture & Society 1680-1817
Category Institutions & organisations
Subcategory Social history
Collections from Great Britain

[vita]

Oh thanks Merry - didn't know he was in Newgate! I'm just writing about that - it was

notorious. Whitecross, where my later Headlands were incarcerated, was built after

public denouncement of the conditions at Newgate.

I did have the settlement details, but thanks anyway. Just wish I could find out where he

came from & what happened to him.

[Merry]

Do you have a burial for his wife?

[vita]

Afraid not. Kite did find a burial for a Sarah Headland 1821 but the age was wrong.

[Mary from Italy]

In case you didn't have it, he was in St Pancras in 1798, according to the Land Tax records on Ancestry:

Proprietor: Lord Southampton
Tenant: Isaac Headland
Residence: St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Year: 1798
Volume: 4

The street address appears to be Cross over; the previous address in the register is Tottenham Place, and the next one is Southampton Court.

[Merry]

Do you know where the six children settled? I'm just trying to establish which area the parents may have died, given there don't seem to be burials for them in London. I presume that when the parents were in London around 1800 the children were already adult?

[vita]

Son Thomas b 1786 (my 3xg/grandfather) settled in London but was born & spent time in

Uxbridge. William b 1787 also settled in Uxbridge. Robert b 1789 settled in Marlborough,

Wilts. I'll have to check up on daughter Ann.

[vita]

I think daughter Ann m Richard Castell 1808. They married in London but I don't know

where they settled.

And Mary - thanks for the info. It matches what Sarah says in her Pauper Settlement

statement.

[Merry]

At the 1808 marriage Richard is a widower of St Geo Hanover Sq. There is a Richard Castell listed as a tenant in the London, England, Land Tax Records, 1692-1932 in the same parish every year from 1808 until 1817 and then one separate entry in 1827. I would imagine at least the run of dates are all for your Richard.

[vita]

Yes, I'd think so Merry - thanks. Should have mentioned that Isaac & Sarah's two other

children died in infancy.

[Merry]

Ann Headland?

1841
Chatton St Pancras

Ann Castell 60 FS born in County? No


Deaths Dec 1855
Castell Ann St Pancras 1b 77

Bur 22 Oct 1855 St Pancras Parish Chapel Camden Ann Castell aged 76 (no home address given)

Annoyingly, I can't find her in 1851 to see if her birthplace matches Ann H (Rickmansworth, wasn't it?)

[Mary from Italy]

There's an Ann Castle, 73, born Kennington, Surrey, at St Pancras Workhouse in 1851.

Ancestry's transcribed her as an inmate, but it looks like "nurse" to me.

[Merry]

Yes, I was looking at that one. Bothersome?!!

[vita]

Just found a post from last night where I forgot to press "post" - sorry! I was saying yes

Merry, Rickmansworth was Ann's birthplace so I don't think the workhouse Ann is mine.

I wonder if Isaac went back to Lincolnshire, if indeed he was from there in the first place?

[Merry]

We don't know that Ann Castle is Ann Castell either!

[vita]

We don't know that Ann Castle is Ann Castell either!

True. Wish Isaac's birth date was on that prison record. I've been reading

about Newgate - apparently the Masters Side was for those who could pay for

"better" accommodation.How debtors managed this I'm not sure. The

Common side was unspeakably awful.

[Merry]

I don't know whether you know more than is on this thread, but what about this burial for Sarah Trenley?

Sarah Adland

Burial: b abt 1750 bur 14 Mar 1830 St Luke, Chelsea, Kensington and Chelsea

[vita]

Thanks for that,Merry - I hadn't found out anything else until this weekend when I saw : Sarah Headland Age 77 B abt 1750 bur 8 Jul 1827, Hornhurch, Essex, St.Andrew, Parish Records. Now that's two possibilities!

[vita]

Update on Isaac & Sarah :- after years of getting nowhere with this one in the last couple of days I've had two possible leads, one of which I owe to our very own Garstonite, so well done to the Big G !!!! He spotted a post on Geneanet claiming Isaac had been born in Denham, to parents William Isaac & Ellen. I'm told this site has a reputation for inaccuracy,
so I'm not building my hopes up, but think I've manager to trace the poster & she's promised to get back to me.
Also, I'm told familysearch shows Isaac ,Sarah & two children (that would have been my
3xg/grandfather Thomas & his younger brother Robert) being removed from St Clement
Danes to St Pancras.
So, at least we know Isaac didn't do a runner which was always a possibility after Sarah saying he'd left the house when she appeared before the Poor Relief Board.

[Merry]

Denham Bucks or Denham Sussex?

[Merry]

Looking at old threads I see it's the Bucks one!

[kiterunner]

As far as I know, you should treat Geneanet with the same amount of scepticism as you would family trees on Ancestry.

[Merry]

Is this Isaac H b about 1745 who is supposed to be from Denham?

[Merry]

Also, I'm told familysearch shows Isaac ,Sarah & two children (that would have been my
3xg/grandfather Thomas & his younger brother Robert) being removed from St Clement
Danes to St Pancras.

Is that the same settlement doc we were talking about ten years ago?!


http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/Forum/showpost.php?p=254276&postcount=12

[vita]

Thanks,bothYes, Isaac b around 1745, father William Isaac's birthplace apparently shown as Surrey.

[kiterunner]

If you haven't seen the actual image on FamilySearch (I couldn't find the record on there at all), I am guessing that Isaac has been indexed because his name is given in the document as Sarah's husband, but that he wasn't actually one of the people removed, and that it is the same info that already appears in this thread a couple of times.

[kiterunner]

Also there are plenty of trees on Ancestry showing Isaac as being born in Denham, Bucks, son of William Isaac and Ellen. Doesn't mean it is correct though.

[kiterunner]

Looking at the first of such trees which comes up on Ancestry, sorry to say it looks like complete nonsense.

[Merry]

Thanks,bothYes, Isaac b around 1745, father William Isaac's birthplace apparently shown as Surrey.

I can't tell whether there should be punctuation between 'William' and 'Isaac's', or a full stop after 1745, so I don't know which of them was supposedly born in Surrey??

[kiterunner]

It is the supposed father William Isaac who was supposedly born in Surrey but I wouldn't bother with it, Merry. If you look at some of the trees on Ancestry you will see what I mean.

[vita]

So sorry,Merry. Was distracted by visitor arriving.
Should have full stop after 1745,& William ISaac is the one supposed to have been b Surrey,abt 1710

[Merry]

I agree Kate.

vita, none of the trees have anything whatsoever to back up the Surrey 1710 birth details for WIH or his supposed marriage in 1735 to Ellen Headland (and I don't know if he was apparently marrying a relative or if the people who 'know they married in 1735' just don't know the bride's surname?)

I would just ignore the whole thing if it were my tree.

[vita]

Thanks again,both . I wasn't getting my hopes up,but you know what it's like .....
.

[Merry]

Well there's always a chance the lady you have contacted will have some evidence that's not been passed on to any of the Ancestry tree holders!

[vita]

Well there's always a chance the lady you have contacted will have some evidence that's not been passed on to any of the Ancestry tree holders!

Yes,hope so. Just waiting for her to get back to me.