James Sayer

[Phoenix]

Jim died in Hove in 1975. His date of birth is given as 6 July 1892.

When his widow, Violet Louisa nee Rayner died in 1983, her date of birth is given as 5 February 1895. (She was baptised 27 JANUARY 1895 and rec'd into the church 17 March 1895, so someone - probably my cousin, who recorded the death - got their facts wrong.)

According to Vi:

Jim was 14 years older than she was.
He was born in Redmire, Yorkshire
He went to Boarding School.
Two brothers were in the Yorkshire Regiment and died in WW1
He was in the Royal Canadian Mounted Police

According to the family, he was the worst thing that ever happened to Vi. My mother had 13 addresses for them in her address book and social services rescued her from squalour and put her in an old people's home in Brighton after he died.

They married in Hammersmith in March 1945.

I cannot find either of them on the 1939 register - at least, not to be certain.

He seems to be the James Sayer, b 1879 in Hawes, Yorkshire, who moved to Burnley with his family, became a weaver, married Hannah Woods in 1902, and by the looks of things she divorced him in 1925. (Co-respondent Gerald Ongley???)

Felix may have died during the course of WW1, but nobody appears to be on the CWGC site.

If he went to Canada post 1925, surely he was way too old for the Mounties?

Was everything he told Vi pure hokum? ie going to Canada, brothers (John, Arthur, Felix) in WW1, BOARDING SCHOOL???

I could, of course, get the marriage certificate, but I bet most of it is wrong.

[Phoenix]

BTW neither marriage appears to have had any children.

[kiterunner]

He seems to be the James Sayer, b 1879 in Hawes, Yorkshire, who moved to Burnley with his family, became a weaver, married Hannah Woods in 1902, and by the looks of things she divorced him in 1925. (Co-respondent Gerald Ongley???)



Wouldn't that mean he divorced her?

[kiterunner]

There is an Edward Sayer in the East Lancs Regt in WW1 who put down his brother Felix Sayer of Preston as one of his next of kin, but it doesn't say that Felix was in the army too on there (the "pension records" on ancestry).

Edit - never mind, that's a different Felix.

[kiterunner]

Felix Sayer's death is registered Jan-Mar 1917 Burnley, age 32. Just realised you probably have that already.

[kiterunner]

There is a James Sayer arriving Canada Apr 1923 on the Montclare, age 38, married, platelayer on the railway, born England, intending to settle in Canada, no friends or relations there, next of kin is wife Mrs Sayer, 26 Berkley St, Burnley. (In the Canada Ocean Arrivals 1919-1924 on ancestry)

On the UK Outward Passengers List he is a labourer and the ship's name is actually the Montcalm (it's typed on that form and was scrawled on the Canada Ocean Arrivals).

[Merry]

There is an Arthur Sayer sailing from Liverpool to St John, New Brunswick, Canada, departing 4 Mar 1903 aged 18 (so a bit old?) and possibly the same man coming back from Montréal, Québec, Canada arriving in Liverpool 3 Sep 1905 aged 19.

I just wondered if he was the Mountie?!! Bit of a long shot, but convenient to borrow a story from your brother!!

[Merry]

lol Kate's last post wasn't there when I started mine about an hour before I remembered to click Submit!!

[Phoenix]

Wouldn't that mean he divorced her?

Reference: J 77/2225/9700
Description:

Divorce Court File: 9700. Appellant: Hannah Sayer. Respondent: James Sayer. Co-respondent: Gerald Ongley. Type: Wife's petition for divorce [wd].
Date: 1925

Not sure what [wd] means. Sounds as if it might have been messy.

[Phoenix]

There is a James Sayer arriving Canada Apr 1923 on the Montclare, age 38, married, platelayer on the railway, born England, intending to settle in Canada, no friends or relations there, next of kin is wife Mrs Sayer, 26 Berkley St, Burnley. (In the Canada Ocean Arrivals 1919-1924 on ancestry)

On the UK Outward Passengers List he is a labourer and the ship's name is actually the Montcalm (it's typed on that form and was scrawled on the Canada Ocean Arrivals).

Yes, yes, yes!

Hannah remarries, to Benjamin Halstead, and is at the same address in 1939 :):):) (And I bet she was a whole load happier)

Thank you, Kite!

[merleyone]

The Lancashire Evening post of 1/3/1926 carried a report of the case when Hannah Sayer was granted a decree nisi after 'evidence was given by Alice Ann Stevenson, a weaver, that in 1919 she kept company with Sayer who told her he was a single man. She had a child who was maintained by Sayer until he went to Canada in 1923. He returned to this country, and in October last the petitioner and Miss Stevenson went to Castleford and, when the papers were served upon him, he admitted that he was the father of the child.'

That child may have been the Arthur Stevenson b. 11/8/1922 and bap. 30/8/1922 at Holy Trinity, Habergham Eaves, Lancashire. Child of Alice Stevenson, 60 Barracks Road.
(Lancs OPC) On todays map Habergham seems to be a part of Burnley.

merleyone

[Phoenix]

So he did have a child!

Thank you, merleyone. Sounds in keeping with the rest of his behaviour.

[Phoenix]

Oh great. Arthur was in the army - with a punishment sheet as long as your arm.

However, he was still around in 1924 to prove their mother Ann's will. Did I mention that she had at least two daughters before she married Felix senior? Felix senior was illegitimate.

ARTHUR appears to be at 45 Carrington Road , West Bromwich C.B., Staffordshire, England in 1939, with wife Emily and daughter Irene. At least his dob 3 Sep 1886 is spot on.

[Phoenix]

And Emily is Emily Forrest nee Barnett.