Bernard Henry Burton and Ivy Dennis Maud Burton

[Anstey Nomad]

Annie Amelia Riley, born September Quarter 1885 in Leicester, appears to be the surviving child of Annie Bodycote’s ill-fated third marriage to Samuel Riley.

In the March Quarter of 1906, Annie married Joseph Henry Burton, a railway telegraphist and by 1911, they had had three children, two of whom were still living.

Bernard Henry Burton was born in Bedford District in the March Quarter of 1908 and his sister, Ivy Dennis Maud Burton, in Bedford District in the December Quarter of 1910. I have no idea why a girl would be given the name Dennis!

I haven’t identified the third child, but there were boys called Ernest and Leslie Burton born and died in Bedford district in the March Quarter of 1908 and the March Quarter of 1911 respectively, who would bear further investigation.

I have searched extensively for the two surviving children over the last couple of days and am getting no leads at all other than:

http://forum.commandoveterans.org/cdoForum/posts/list/3934.page

and a couple of deaths recorded for Ivy D M ~, one in Colchester in 1940 and one in Bromley in 1956, but I can’t find births or marriages to tie in with either.

Would anyone else like to have a go?

[kiterunner]

Dennis or Denis was a girl's name back in the 16th and 17th centuries, but in Ivy's case perhaps it was from a family surname?

Ernest Burton's birth Jan-Mar 1908 has the same page number as Bernard's, so he was very likely his twin brother. (The page numbers for Leslie and Ivy are not the same nor consecutive.) Bernard H Burton's death was registered Jan-Mar 1915 Bedford, age 7.

Still looking for Ivy...

[kiterunner]

I don't know whether you already have this National Probate Calendar entry?

1958
BURTON Joseph Henry of 170 Fordbrough Lane Birmingham 9 died 3 February 1958 at 1 Western Road Birmingham 18 Administration (with Will) Birmingham 29 April to Annie Amelia Burton widow. Effects £586 7s 7d.

[kiterunner]

Joseph and Annie are listed on the 1935 and 1939 Birmingham electoral rolls at 170 Fordrough Lane but Ivy isn't with them although she would be over 21 by then. In 1939 a Frank Burton is listed with them, with an a for absent next to his name.

[kiterunner]

In theory it should be possible to look up 170 Fordrough Lane for 1931 and 1932 in the electoral rolls on FMP (post #4 was referring to ancestry) but I have had no luck with their search or their browse. I did find the beginning of Fordrough Lane for 1931 on the search but there was no way to get to the next page. I have to go out shopping now.

[Anstey Nomad]

Thanks again.

I hadn't spotted Bernard's early death.

I had Joseph's probate/death and am eagerly awaiting Annie's Will, which should be with me within the next week or so. She didn't die until 1981 - five years before I started this lark!

It also looks as if the Frank you found is Frank Burton born SQ 1914 in Bedford district. Best hope he made it through the War!

[Merry]

They are at that same address, 170 Fordrough Lane , on the 1939 register:

Annie A Burton b 15 Jul 1885 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
Joseph H Burton b 06 Feb 1884 Male Railway Clerk Telegraphist Married

There are no other open records in their household.

[Anstey Nomad]

I got three leads for Ivy off the 1939 Register, in all cases looking like a married woman, one in Norwich, one in Dagenham and one in Wiltshire. I've checked the deaths and, although the initials are right, there's not a Dennis Maud among them!

The only one born in the right quarter turns out to be Ivy D M Pettitt, from Norwich, who died in February 1990.

Back to the grindstone!

[Anstey Nomad]

Just fourteen F~ B~s on the 1939 Register listed as born in 1914. Now if someone with a sub could eliminate those not born in June, July, August or September of that year, we might be getting somewhere.

I now it's a big ask.

[JBee]

Can you pm me the name, year of birth and place - thanks

[Merry]

Just fourteen F~ B~s on the 1939 Register listed as born in 1914. Now if someone with a sub could eliminate those not born in June, July, August or September of that year, we might be getting somewhere.

I now it's a big ask.

If he's in the services he won't be listed.

[Anstey Nomad]

Ah ...

[Anstey Nomad]

I’m wondering if we can make anything of another brother, Arthur H Burton, registered in the March Quarter of 1916 in Bedford district.

I’m speculating whether he may be the Arthur Horace Burton, born 12 January 1916, who died in Birmingham in December Quarter 1976.

[Merry]

The Arthur with that dob is at 172 Little Green Lane in Birningham in 1939. He is with Violet L Burton dob 12 Feb 1910 and two closed records. I can't read his occ!

[Merry]

Marriages Dec 1935
Burton Arthur H Pratt Birmingham 6d 793
Pratt Violet L M Burton Birmingham 6d 793

and then two births, Q2 1936 and Q4 1937. There are further birth regs Q2 1940, Q4 1943 and Q3 1945.

[Anstey Nomad]

Ooh, thanks - I'd found two births. Off now to check out the rest.

[Anstey Nomad]

Got 'em.

Luckily, the oldest girl married a man with a VERY unusual name :)

[Merry]

Not a surname you would want at school!

[Anstey Nomad]

Of those five children, I now have last known addresses for two. Cover me, I'm going in!

[Merry]

lol Good luck!

[Anstey Nomad]

In the meantime, Familysearch threw up this marriage:

Event Type Marriage Registration
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year 1941
Registration District Luton
County Bedfordshire
Event Place Luton, Bedfordshire, England
Spouse Name (available after 1911)
Volume 3B
Page 1474

[Anstey Nomad]

Sadly, it looks like a red herring.

[Merry]

I'm not sure what you mean?? There are no names on the entry you posted, but this is the same entry on FMP:


Marriages Dec 1941

B***** I A M Bourne Luton 3b 1474
B***** A W Barton Luton 3b 1474

EDIT Names removed in case still living

[Anstey Nomad]

Yes, that's the one. I wasn't sure if I should put the names in.

I wondered if Ivy was a mistranscription, but it seems not as there are Bourne/Barton children born in Luton in the years immediately following.

[Merry]

Ah, so if you had said that was why you were not posting the names I wouldn't have posted them! I thought you were saying the names were not showing!!

[Merry]

That Ivy seems to have gone on to marry George Valentine Riddle (he is dead!). She's on the 1939 register with all the surnames, and her dob is wrong for your Ivy - 14 Jan 1916.

I will go back and remove those names now.

[Anstey Nomad]

:):):) *happy dance*

The Will's arrived!

Frank was alive in 1981 and living in Bromsgrove.

I have a name for a grandson who received a small legacy.

The rest of the estate went to Frank and his sister Ivy Maud Denise Everall.

Which leads me to this:

Name: Ivy Mud D Everall
Birth Date: 24 Oct 1910
Date of Registration: Dec 1981
Age at Death: 71
Registration district: Henley
Inferred County: Oxfordshire
Volume: 20
Page: 2384

and this:

Ivy M Lewis
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1957
Registration district: Ealing
Inferred County: Middlesex
Spouse: Leslie Everall

Volume Number: 5e
Page Number: 230

The marriage looks good because her surname at this marriage coincides with the surname of the grandson mentioned in the Will. Leslie died June Quarter 1980 in Hounslow.

[Merry]

Se was a Lewis in 1939 living here:

9A York Road , Hove M.B., Sussex

but annoyingly she is the only open record in her household.

[Merry]

Do you know the year and area the grandson was born?

Have to go out now, so not ignoring!

[Merry]

Oh, I'm confused - I was thinking you meant the grandson was a Lewis, but that's not it, is it? Tha's Frank's grandson not Ivy's? I don't know who Frank is and can't read back because I have to go....

[Anstey Nomad]

P**** A****** Lewis is Annie Amelia's grandson, Ivy's son by her first marriage. I've not got to grips with him yet.

I’m now wondering about Arthur Horace Burton. I’d got his birth as being registered in Bedford district in the March Quarter of 1916, mother’s maiden name Riley, so I’d assumed he was a younger brother, coming after Frank in the line up. It seemed to fit.

However, although Annie Amelia didn’t die until 1981 ( ie after Arthur Horace), her Will was made in 1964 and the only people mentioned in the Will are Frank (b1914), Ivy (b1910) and Ivy’s son.

I’m not currently sure whether this means that I’m on the wrong track with Arthur Horace, or it means that this family is definitely mine because they have fallen out!

[Anstey Nomad]

I'm wondering now whether we can tie these two up:

Peter A Lewis
Mother's Maiden Surname: Burton
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1939
Registration district: Worthing
Inferred County: Sussex, Isle of Wight
Volume Number: 2b
Page Number: 482

Peter Anthony Lewis
BIRTH DATE: 12 Jan 1939
DATE OF REGISTRATION: Dec 1985
AGE AT DEATH: 46
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Henley
INFERRED COUNTY: Berkshire, Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire
VOLUME: 20
PAGE: 2397

[Anstey Nomad]

It looks from a tree on Ancestry as if, not content with having three first names to choose from, Ivy was actually known as Jean!

http://person.ancestry.co.uk/tree/50985043/person/27112419707/story

[Merry]

Now I'm very confused with fmp!

Earlier I searched for Ivy Lewis born 24 Oct 1910 and found the one match at

9A York Road , Hove M.B., Sussex

with no other open records in the household even though Ivy was person 2 in the house, so you might think person 1 would be open too as it's likely they would be her age or older, but could be a toy boy!

Anyway, now you have revealed the son's deaths I searched for him instead, give he died in the 1980s.

I found Peter born 12 Jan 1939 along with Anthony born 27 Jun 1904 (tool makers labourer) and Ivy M, this time born 10 Oct 1910. And the address is the same - 9A York Road , Hove M.B., Sussex!!

If I view the page it is a separate listing to the other one, but the dob does say 24 Oct for Ivy, so that's just mistranscribed. I wonder if she ended up with two lots of ration books?!!! lol

So, now we know her 'husband's' name maybe the marriage will show itself? I couldn't find anything before.

[Anstey Nomad]

I can't see a B, M or D so far.

Do you think he might have been one of those seedy types that hung round Brighton in the 30s. Did he lead our Ivy into bad ways?

Am I over-thinking this?

[Phoenix]

Now I'm very confused with fmp!

Earlier I searched for Ivy Lewis born 24 Oct 1910 and found the one match at

9A York Road , Hove M.B., Sussex

with no other open records in the household even though Ivy was person 2 in the house, so you might think person 1 would be open too as it's likely they would be her age or older, but could be a toy boy!

Anyway, now you have revealed the son's deaths I searched for him instead, give he died in the 1980s.

I found Peter born 12 Jan 1939 along with Anthony born 27 Jun 1904 (tool makers labourer) and Ivy M, this time born 10 Oct 1910. And the address is the same - 9A York Road , Hove M.B., Sussex!!

If I view the page it is a separate listing to the other one, but the dob does say 24 Oct for Ivy, so that's just mistranscribed. I wonder if she ended up with two lots of ration books?!!! lol

So, now we know her 'husband's' name maybe the marriage will show itself? I couldn't find anything before.

I think my father was in the same position. He wasn't living at home in 1939, but recorded that as his correspondence address. Ivy might have been in hospital, separated, on extended holiday etc. Ivy appears twice because she was patently born before 1916.

[Merry]

I was really only confused at first, because I thought there were two records leading to the same page but with different dobs. Now I realise Ivy is listed twice at the same address on different pages and some of the other people on the page with Anthony are also on the other page - I just wonder who person 1 is in the record where person 1 is redacted?

[Phoenix]

My Dad is redacted on the main record because he is under 100, and all his details are on the second page.

[Merry]

I can't see a B, M or D so far.

Do you think he might have been one of those seedy types that hung round Brighton in the 30s. Did he lead our Ivy into bad ways?

Am I over-thinking this?

Well, it doesn't seem they were married, or if they were, one or both of them had an alias (or I suppose the marriage might not have made it's way to the GRO). As you said, there's no obvious birth reg for him, but there are a few less likely ones that might need eliminating. I wonder how long they were together? The second marriage for Ivy is a long time later.

[Anstey Nomad]

But they married relatively soon after Leslie's first wife died.

[Anstey Nomad]

I did wonder about this chap. Ancestry have linked records and his death record gives a birth date of 27 June 1904.

Alfred John Lewis
Registration Year: 1904
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Dover
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 1124

Still can't find a marriage though.

[Merry]

Although the year is wrong, the man you mentioned might be this one on the 1939 register:

48 Boone Street , Lewisham, London

Alfred John Lewis 27 Jun 1906 Bricklayer ?
Dorothy M Lewis 26 Apr 1905 Unpaid Domestic Duties


What did you mean by, "Ancestry have linked records"?

[Merry]

Turns out the date isn't wrong, only the transcription, so it should read 1904. :D

[Anstey Nomad]

Possibly not him then.

When I look someone up on Ancestry, very often I get a list of other entries mostly relating to that person down the left hand side of the page.

For example, when I look at Leslie Everall's death entry, there are a number of links at the right hand side of the page: the 1911 Census, his first marriage, his birth entry, an electoral roll entry and his second marriage.

Alfred Lewis's birth record is linked to a death record giving the birth date of 27 June 1904 and also his father's service record from WWI, but unless he left Dorothy and ran off with Ivy...

[Merry]

Possibly not him then.

When I look someone up on Ancestry, very often I get a list of other entries mostly relating to that person down the left hand side of the page.

For example, when I look at Leslie Everall's death entry, there are a number of links at the right hand side of the page: the 1911 Census, his first marriage, his birth entry, an electoral roll entry and his second marriage.

Alfred Lewis's birth record is linked to a death record giving the birth date of 27 June 1904 and also his father's service record from WWI, but unless he left Dorothy and ran off with Ivy...


Thanks for the explanation - I've just realised now - I don't get those links because I always have the 'Match all terms exactly' box ticked.

If he ran off with Ivy having dumped Dorothy then he still managed to appear with each of them in 1939 and would have had to remember which first name to use depending which house he was in!

[Anstey Nomad]

Not him then. Shame, that was neat.

[Merry]

I'm typing this out just in case some further info comes along later and I wish I'd remembered it lol Probably a complete waste of time/wrong people etc.

I was thinking, if Anthony and Ivy were never married, the most likely reason would probably be that one or both of them were already married. It doesn't look like Ivy had been married, so maybe Anthony was?

On the 1939 register she uses her middle initial but he doesn't. Of course this doesn't mean he didn't have a middle name, but maybe he either didn't or didn't use it, so perhaps look at marriages without a middle name first? (esp as there are less of those lol!). I wondered about this one:

Marriages Jun 1936
Lewis Anthony Reeve Westminster 1a 1399
Reeve Kathleen W Lewis Westminster 1a 1399

This could be Kathleen (only match if she was using her birth name)

Births Jun 1916
Reeve Kathleen W Rennie Brentford 3a

So this Kathleen was quite young when she married (if they are the same person).

The next Q a baby was registered:

Births Sep 1936
LEWIS Ernest F Reeve Westminster 1a 540

and the following one the baby died

Deaths Dec 1936
Lewis Ernest F 0 Dartford 2a 931

The burial for Ernest is on Ancestry and it tells us he was aged 5 months on 22 Dec (so born at the start of Q3) and was buried from 152 Elsa Road Welling, Kent. I looked at this address in 1939 but can't see any family connection between the couple living there then (William H and Ethel M Steel nee Sammons), though I did notice they had two redacted entries in their house, when they only had one child at that time, so it's remotely possible the other redacted entry could be Kathleen, but really that's pretty unlikely given we have moved on three years.

Anyway, it doesn't seem that Kathleen and Anthony Lewis had any further children, perhaps because they were no longer together? I've not been able to find out what happened to Kathleen after this, nor worked out who her parents were (in case they had written wills etc). She doesn't seem to have had any full siblings registered in Eng/Wales and if her parents were married in Eng/Wales her mother (surname Rennie) may not have been on her first marriage.

[Anstey Nomad]

I've re-activated my GRO account. I thought I might lash out and buy Peter's birth certificate, and Arthur Horace's and possibly Joseph Henry's Will as well.

[Merry]

Oooh, how exciting :D:D:D

[Merry]

You mentioned whether Arthur Horace did belong to the same family because he's not mentioned in the will you purchased. I think he must be as it's too much of a coincidence that he was born in the right place and then lived in Birmingham (1939).

As to whether there had been a falling out - My mum was not mentioned in her mother's will even thought they had not fallen out! (though after the will had been read mum did fall out with her sister, who was the only beneficiary in their mother's will, for a time, but that's another story!!)

[Anstey Nomad]

My concern is that I gave current addresses for some of Arthur's descendants, who are my lead in to finding out about this branch of the family and I wouldn't want to approach them without that confirmation.

[Merry]

Oh yes, good point!

[Anstey Nomad]

Certificates have arrived!

Arthur Horace Burton was born 12 January 1916 at 33 York Street, [illegible] In Bedford District. his parents are Joseph Henry Burton, Wireless Telegraph Operator and Annie Amelia Burton, formerly Riley. In the 'Signature, description and residence of informant' section, it says:

"Annie Amelia Burton, Mother, 7 Nichols Street, Leicester, as per declaration dated twenty first February 1916."

In the 'When registered' column, the date is 23 February 1916.

I've never seen this before. Any idea what it all means?

Peter Anthony Lewis was born 12 January 1939 at 193 Upper Shoreham Road, Shoreham by Sea. His parents are Anthony Lewis, commercial traveller (tea) and Ivy Lewis (no middle initials) formerly Burton, both of 9B, York Road, Hove. Ivy was the informant.

Nothing is ever straightforward with my family!

[Merry]

Re Arthur's birth - Born in Bedford district, not registered until mother had moved to Leicester. I would imagine the following declaration and registration are to do with the fact that the birth was registered in a different district to where it occurred. I don't have an example of this on my tree to compare with, but I'm sure other people on GF do - it's just trying to remember who! lol

[Merry]

The address where Peter was born was the local hospital:


Southlands Hospital, East Sussex Poor Law Institution, 193 Upper Shoreham Road , Shoreham-by-Sea U.D., Sussex

[Anstey Nomad]

Arthur was registered in Bedford ...

[Merry]

Arthur was registered in Bedford ...

The birth reg shows up as Bedford district because that is where he was born, but as his mother was living in Leicester I think she went into Leicester Reg Office and registered his birth by declaration.


Here's what Kensington and Chelsea Reg Office (just an example I picked after googling) have to say about it:

By declaration
If it is not convenient for you to attend this office then you may go to any other Register Office in England or Wales to register by ‘Birth Declaration’. When you attend that Register Office, the Registrar who sees you will simply record the relevant information and act as an intermediary, passing the details to this office by post. Please bear in mind that declarations rely on many different organisations and services (postal services, part time register offices, etc.) and this may delay the arrangements you may wish to make with regards to passports, family allowances, etc.

In this case, any birth certificates you require will be sent to you by post. If you wish to obtain any certificates in addition to the ‘free’ one then you will need to enclose the appropriate payment of £4.00 per certificate (certificate fee valid only at the time of registration).

[Anstey Nomad]

Right, so she would have made the declaration in Leicester and they would have sent it to Bedford, hence the registration being two days after the date of the declaration.

The address in Leicester means nothing to me at the moment. It's not her mother's address.

[Merry]

Right, so she would have made the declaration in Leicester and they would have sent it to Bedford, hence the registration being two days after the date of the declaration.


Yes, I think so.

This is who was the head of family in 1911 at the Leicester address. Just seems like an ordinary house, not a boarding house/hospital or hotel etc

James Edwin Lant Head Married Male Agent 64 1847 + wife and two children.

[Anstey Nomad]

Never heard of him!

His wife was Sophia Susannah Smith. I wonder if she was in any way connected with Annie Amelia's mother's second husband, William Smith?

He's another can of worms that I've not even attempted before.

[ElizabethHerts]

We had a similar situation when my granddaughter was born.

She was born at King's College Hospital, Denmark Hill, London seven weeks prematurely. She should have been born at Reading.

She was transferred to Reading hospital when she was three days old.
She was still in hospital when my daughter wanted to register her birth and it would not have been at all convenient for her to travel into London to register her birth, so we went into the Reading registration office and the registrar did some paperwork there which she sent off to London so neither my daughter nor her husband had to travel there. The certificate was sent to her about a week later.

[Anstey Nomad]

Ah, thank you. I'd never come across this before.

I've just looked at the calendar and this registration is just under the statutory six weeks.