View Full Version : Alexander [Alec] Horace Mack
I want find my Grandfather's family. Please help!:)
Name – Alexander Horace Mack [Alec] 25th Oct 1901, place ?
Father, William Henry Mack, maybe died 1912 China Sea with wife? Sea captain? Maybe has a brother, who moved to Canada?
Ancestors: maybe from Austria and related to General Mack [could be rubbish].
He was apparently orphaned when he was about 10 and lived with various members of his family maybe with brother.
No Addresses as a child, so not found 1901 or 1911 census. Probably lived as a child in the South of England by the sea.
Married 6 March 1925 • St Peter's, Hammersmith, London,: Lilian Maud Wood (1904–2000) my grandmother birth 30 NOV 1904 • Merthyr Tydfil
Occupation(s) – Estate Agent Auctioneer
Military service – no military service, but air warden in London and Bournemouth
Thanks!
Carol
kiterunner
22-05-16, 19:01
Welcome to the forum, Carol.
You probably know this already, but the GRO marriage index has his name down as Horace A Mack, so I assume his name is Horace Alexander on the marriage cert rather than Alexander Horace?
Also, he wouldn't be on the 1901 census if his date of birth is correct as the census would have been taken before he was born.
Oh, and do you have the names of the witnesses from his marriage certificate, please?
kiterunner
22-05-16, 19:16
We need to rule these out in case his surname was not originally Mack (Dec 1901 birth regs):
Edwards Horace Alexander Wandsworth 1d 713
Fitzgerald Horace Alexander Walsall 6b 684
HARDWICK Horace Alec Bedford 3b 308
HURT Horace Alexander Southwell 7b 461
kiterunner
22-05-16, 19:20
I've found deaths for Horace Alexander Edwards and Horace Alexander Fitzgerald, so we can rule those two out. And a likely one for Hurt though it doesn't quite match.
1939 register:
179 Long Lane , Uxbridge U.D., Middlesex, England
Lilian Maude Mack married dob 30 Nov 1904 occ Unpaid Domestic Duties
Alexander Donald Mack married dob 25 Oct 1901 occ Builders General Foreman
Lilian's dob has been altered from 30 Nov 1908. I cannot see Alec's entry even though it has been transcribed as the image shows it to be redacted, so I don't know if 'Donald' is just a mis-transcription. The transcription suggests there are no other people in their household, but this may not be correct.
I've found deaths for Horace Alexander Edwards and Horace Alexander Fitzgerald, so we can rule those two out. And a likely one for Hurt though it doesn't quite match.
The fourth man, Horace A Hardwick, appears on the 1939 register, so that rules him out. I didn't look for the other three.
Mary from Italy
22-05-16, 21:39
An Alexander Horace Mack with the correct date of birth died in the Bournemouth area in 1975; is that your grandfather?
Mary from Italy
22-05-16, 21:51
He appears on the English electoral roll for the first time in 1928, at 38 Bloemfontein Ave., Hammersmith. Lilian isn't listed that year, but they're both listed at the same address the next year.
He would have been entitled to vote from age 21, I think, so if he wasn't in the armed forces, I wonder where he was?
Maybe Scottish or Irish? Or maybe born and raised abroad?
Lilian Maud Wood (1904–2000) my grandmother birth 30 NOV 1904 • Merthyr Tydfil
Are you sure she was born in Merthyr? I don't see a birth registration there.
I was also surprised, given they seem to live in the outer London area between their marriage and WW2 (electoral rolls on Ancestry), I can't see any birth registrations for children for this couple in that area.
EDIT See posts #10 and #13
kiterunner
22-05-16, 21:59
Are you sure she was born in Merthyr? I don't see a birth registration there.
I was also surprised, given they seem to live in the outer London area between their marriage and WW2 (electoral rolls on Ancestry), I can't see any birth registrations for children for this couple in that area.
Were you looking for MMN Wood, rather than Woods, Merry? I believe it should be Woods. For the children's births, I mean.
Also the public tree on ancestry links to Lilian Maud Woods' birth registered Jan-Mar 1905 Merthyr.
kiterunner
22-05-16, 22:05
He appears on the English electoral roll for the first time in 1928, at 38 Bloemfontein Ave., Hampstead. Lilian isn't listed that year, but they're both listed at the same address the next year.
He would have been entitled to vote from age 21, I think, so if he wasn't in the armed forces, I wonder where he was?
Maybe Scottish? Or maybe born and raised abroad?
Even if you have managed to search the Electoral Rolls on Findmypast, they are not complete, so he could have been in some part of England that is not included. Ancestry only has London and a very few other places.
Mary from Italy
22-05-16, 22:17
Yes, it was FMP I was looking at. I didn't realise they weren't complete!
Were you looking for MMN Wood, rather than Woods, Merry? I believe it should be Woods. For the children's births, I mean.
Also the public tree on ancestry links to Lilian Maud Woods' birth registered Jan-Mar 1905 Merthyr.
Yes, I was looking at the name Wood as that's what's written in the opening post. I see the marriage which you had already looked at so I didn't bother :o, is in the name Woods, so forget everything I said about the children and Lilian's birth reg!
When Alec's death was registered in 1975 the informant would have been asked about his place of birth and any info they gave would have been included on the death cert.
If you think it's likely the person who registered the death would have known where he was born then you could order a copy and see what information that gives:
Deaths Mar 1975
Mack Alexander Horace dob 25Oc1901 District Bournemouth Volume number 23 Page number 404
I see a couple of ancestry trees have him born at Pontypridd Glamorgan. Do you know where that information came from?
Did he live in Branksome Wood Road and later Meyrick Park Crescent in Bournemouth? I lived in Branksome Wood Road in the early 70s and used to visit a house in Meyrick Park Crescent in the 70s and 80s. Small world!
1939 register:
179 Long Lane , Uxbridge U.D., Middlesex, England
Lilian Maude Mack married dob 30 Nov 1904 occ Unpaid Domestic Duties
Alexander Donald Mack married dob 25 Oct 1901 occ Builders General Foreman
Lilian's dob has been altered from 30 Nov 1908. I cannot see Alec's entry even though it has been transcribed as the image shows it to be redacted, so I don't know if 'Donald' is just a mis-transcription. The transcription suggests there are no other people in their household, but this may not be correct.
I've just looked at the 1939 register image again and this time I can see Alec's original entry but not Lilian's so goodness knows what fmp are up to! Anyway, his entry does have middle name Horace which has been mis-transcribed as Donald. It now looks as if there may be two redacted entries (ie people born after 1915) in Alec and Lilian's household, though fmp have not acknowledged this in their transcription. His entry also states he was an air raid warden.
Oh, and do you have the names of the witnesses from his marriage certificate, please?
Also, what address did Alec give on the marriage cert and what information did he give for his father, other than his name?
I had no idea everyone was being so helpful!:o
The witnesses for my Grandfather's and Grandmother's wedding were:
E M Butler,
A A Badclay?
Thanks!:)
Wedding Certificate:
Horace Alexander [Alec] Mack, 25, Bachelor, Carpenter & Joiner, 60 Weltje Road, Hammersmith, William Henry Mack, Shipping Agent.
Lilian Maud Woods, 21, -- 16, Victoria Place, Gilfach Gelly[i]gaer,[near Merthyr] Wales, George Henry Woods, Collier,
Witnesses: E.M Butler, A.A. R[B]a[r]dclay
No place was given on death certificate for birth.
I was always told he never went abroad and that he was brought up on the south coast somewhere with family members after his parents died, when he was about 9.
He built the house at Meyrick Crescent, Bournemouth and my Grandmother remained there after his death.
kiterunner
25-09-17, 18:36
Glad to see you got back to us at last! I've read back through and will have another go.
There are no Macks at 60 Weltje Road on the 1924 electoral roll:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1795/40020_212998-00375/52472736?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3f_phsrc%3dCzj5340%26_phstart%3dsucc essSource%26usePUBJs%3dtrue%26db%3dLMAelectoralreg %26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gskw%3dwel tje*%26gskw_x%3d1%26msrdy%3d1925%26msrdy_x%3d1%26m srdp%3d5%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d%26gst%3d% 26hc%3d10%26fh%3d20%26fsk%3dBEHpYewIgAAHAwCaGAA-61-&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=40020_21299 8-00376
Ancestry doesn't seem to have a 1925 e roll for that street, and they seem to be missing the even numbers in 1926.
kiterunner
25-09-17, 19:09
I can't find an A A Badclay or Radclay. Could it be Barclay or Redclay?
I am wondering if my Great Grandfather was German - Willhelm Heinrich or Heinrich Wilhelm MACK, because Mack is German / Austrian, hence he has not put his place of birth, on his wedding certificate . My Grandfather had said he thought he as related to Austrian Royalty. i found someone who could be my Great Grandfather [Heinrich Wilhelm Karl Mack, Birth: abt 1868, Death: 27 Aug 1911 - Stettin, Preußen (Germany) ? It is in German. I do not know if his occupation was to do with the sea.
Alexander [Alec] Horace Mack
hence he has not put his place of birth, on his wedding certificate
The address on a marriage cert is the address at the time of the marriage, not a place of birth.
No place was given on death certificate for birth.
Can you tell us who registered the death? (or the relationship between them and Alec if the informant may still be living)
kiterunner
25-09-17, 22:03
I am wondering if my Great Grandfather was German - Willhelm Heinrich or Heinrich Wilhelm MACK, because Mack is German / Austrian, hence he has not put his place of birth, on his wedding certificate . My Grandfather had said he thought he as related to Austrian Royalty. i found someone who could be my Great Grandfather [Heinrich Wilhelm Karl Mack, Birth: abt 1868, Death: 27 Aug 1911 - Stettin, Preußen (Germany) ? It is in German. I do not know if his occupation was to do with the sea.
Alexander [Alec] Horace Mack
This is the image of that death record:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60749/45213_srep100%5E065633-00315?pid=5482525&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gss%3Dangs-g%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26gsfn%3Dh*nr*c*% 2Bwil*%2Bkarl%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Dmack%26gsln_x% 3D1%26msbdy_x%3D1%26msbdp%3D5%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26msb dy%3D1868%26msddy%3D1911%26msddy_x%3D1%26msddp%3D5 %26cp%3D0%26catbucket%3Drstp%26MSAV%3D2%26pcat%3DR OOT_CATEGORY%26h%3D5482525%26dbid%3D60749%26indiv% 3D1%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&usePUBJs=true
It says "der Kaufmann", i.e. businessman.
kiterunner
25-09-17, 22:28
By the way, there isn't much Austrian stuff online yet, so if Alec's father was Austrian he might be hard to find. Also German coverage online is patchy.
Sorry, I meant he did not give his place of birth, maybe because it was Germany/Austria. My Uncle Robert registered his death. However I have not been able to get any information from any of the family over the years!
You can imagine how frustrating this search is.
Thanks for all the help!
kiterunner
27-09-17, 12:45
If he (Alec) wasn't a British citizen by birth, I would have thought we could find some record relating to him obtaining British citizenship - he wouldn't have acquired it by marrying a British woman at that time. But I couldn't find anything.
Maybe his mother was English! I do feel there is a link to the South of England and the sea. He told my mother his father was a ship's captain and he died at sea with his wife, but on the wedding certificate he put his father was a shipping agent.
Sorry, I meant he did not give his place of birth, maybe because it was Germany/Austria.
And I meant he wouldn't have given his place of birth because that isn't a requirement when you get married!
kiterunner
27-09-17, 15:38
Maybe his mother was English! I do feel there is a link to the South of England and the sea. He told my mother his father was a ship's captain and he died at sea with his wife, but on the wedding certificate he put his father was a shipping agent.
I don't think he would automatically have been a British citizen at that date if his parents were married and his father was German or Austrian and his mother was English. But I'm not certain.
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