Can you read this? plus more ... [Archive] - Genealogists' Forum

Kit

25-04-16, 07:45

I have found a baptism for a Rachell Hogg that is in the century that my 4g grandmother was born (the first I remember seeing).

It is very informative in that it lists the father and mother and their fathers and where they are from, although I can't read where the father is from.

Can someone please have a look and tell me where he is from?

FMP Rachell Hogg (http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fyorkshire%2f13-0743_gb-yor_parish-registers-n-pr-rpl-1-3-1537-1900%2f00063&parentid=gbprs%2fyorkshire%2fbap%2f207878638&highlights=%22%22)

Rachel's father is Jno. Is that John or Jonathan?

Last question - if anyone can find what happens to this Rachell I would appreciate it. Ideally she will marry Stephen Dawson but it is unlikely.

kiterunner

25-04-16, 07:52

Jno = John. It says "of Sprusety" which must be Spruisty. Here is some info about Spruisty:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/dblock/GB-428000-456000/page/12

Kit

25-04-16, 08:40

Putting it here just in case -

Rachell above has a sister Mary baptised 1790. Mother Sarah Hobson

Rachell may have a brother Richard baptised 1788. Mother Sarah.

There is a Mary Hogg who marries at Fewston, where Rachel married, which could be the Mary in this post.

Kit

25-04-16, 08:46

Jno = John. It says "of Sprusety" which must be Spruisty. Here is some info about Spruisty:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/domesday/dblock/GB-428000-456000/page/12

Thanks Kate.

Merry

25-04-16, 08:54

This marriage sounds familiar, but I can't see it on other threads on here?

Name: Rachael Hogg
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 17 Jul 1815
Marriage Place: Fewston,York,England
Spouse: Stephen Dawson

Merry

25-04-16, 08:58

Oh, is Rachel (ie the one who married Stephen who may or may not be the one baptised in post #1 here) the same one you said this about:

Rachel disappeared and I have not been able to work out what happened to her.

That was on a thread about the 1939 Register though, so I'm a bit confused as to why we were back in the early 1800s on that thread (if we were)!! lol

Merry

25-04-16, 09:13

I
Last question - if anyone can find what happens to this Rachell I would appreciate it. Ideally she will marry Stephen Dawson but it is unlikely.

There is a Mary Hogg who marries at Fewston, where Rachel married, which could be the Mary in this post.

I'm confused as to why you said it's unlikely there is a marriage between Rachel and Stephen (which is why I posted that marriage) but then you said Rachel married at Fewston (I didn't take in you had said that the first time I read the thread) so you already knew about the marriage :confused::confused::confused::confused:

Kit

25-04-16, 09:15

lol Merry, I had the same confusion. Yes the marriage is correct and how we got to the 1800s on a 1939 register thread is a bit strange.

Rachel ended up marrying a James Walmsley after Stephen died but I've never known when she was born.

From the marriage I guestimated Rachel was born 1796 or earlier. Her death indicates she was born 1789, so this baptism fits in the middle.

Kit

25-04-16, 09:17

Sorry I meant that this Rachell married my Stephen Dawson. I'm not convinced she is my Rachel, although I am now thinking maybe.

There are deaths for John and Sarah Hogg in West End which is where Stephen Dawson's parents lived at one point.

Edit - this didn't make sense either. My 4g grandmother Rachel married Stephen Dawson. I'm not convinced the Rachell baptised in post 1 is my Rachel.

Merry

25-04-16, 09:20

So you are looking for an alternative ending for this Rachel, in order to exclude her?

Kit

25-04-16, 09:28

I'd like her to be mine, but when I posted I didn't think she would be.

Now I'm not sure, so I'd like to prove either way.

Merry

25-04-16, 10:03

So at the moment we have bap 1793
Marriage (Dawson) 1815
Marriage (Walmsley) 1828
Burial Jan 1834 aged 45.

There's an image for the Fewston marriage on fmp. It's not particularly enlightening. both otp, spinster and bachelor and both made their marks. Witnesses James Emmett and Thos Ward (Thomas is a serial witness).

Did Rachel sign or make her mark at the other marriage?

Merry

25-04-16, 10:06

She signed at the later marriage but as we know those two events are the same person, that's OK!

(sorry, went off on a tangent!)

Kit

25-04-16, 11:23

Sorry disappeared for a bath. Kids are back to school tomorrow.

Yes she signed at the second marriage, the witnesses mean nothing to me and similarly the marriage for Mary Hogg, the witnesses mean nothing and so do not link her to my Rachel.

(Mary married 1810 to James Emmott, witnesses Thos Emmott and Thomas Ward (Thomas Ward a serial witness))

Merry

25-04-16, 11:51

Kit

25-04-16, 12:13

Mary and James had children:
Thomas 1811 (James of Burley, cotton spinner)
Sarah 1814 (James cotton spinner Abode Greenholme)
Esther 1816 (James flax spinner) Stephen Dawson next entry on page, but not baptised on same day though

I've changed my mind. Mary and James did not have Thomas and Sarah but rather
Jane 1810 and Elizabeth 1812 both of Fewston

Kit

25-04-16, 12:14

So Mary married James Emmott who was a witness at Rachel's wedding? Surely that helps a lot?!! It encourages me to feel the bride at the Dawson marriage is Mary's sister and therefore the baptism for Rachel belongs to this woman.

Do you mean the wedding to Stephen?

Edit: yes you do. oh wow, so it looks like I know Rachel's parents and grandfathers!!

Merry

25-04-16, 12:15

Have you compared the two James Emmott signatures?

Kit

25-04-16, 12:41

no. but I will now

Kit

25-04-16, 12:54

They aren't identical, the E and ts are different but I think it is the same person.

Merry

25-04-16, 13:51

Good, so does that mean you are now happy that the baptism you have found belongs to your Rachel?

Kit

26-04-16, 00:49

Yes I am. Thank you. I doubt I would have worked it out by myself, I've not been sleeping well so a not thinking properly.

Now I have 2 new counties to look at for her grandfathers. Not sure if it is a good thing or not. :)

Janet

26-04-16, 04:00

Got this?

http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/u533/pix4janet/18100226%20marriage%20James%20Emmett-Mary%20Hogg_zpsxim2jlbd.jpg

The registers of the Parish Church (St. Michael and All Angels) Church of Fewston, in the County of York, A. D. 1593 to A. D. 1812. (https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/008685719)
I don't know if you can access this link to the whole book, Toni. Books, actually. Two volumes:

The registers of the Parish Church (St. Michael and All Angels) Church of Fewston, in the County of York, A. D. 1593 to A. D. 1812.
Transcribed by Thomas Parkinson.
Corporate Author: Church of St. Michael and All Angels (Fewston, England)
Other Authors: Parkinson, Thomas.
Language(s): English
Published: Skipton [Eng.] Printed at the Craven Herald Office, 1899.

Maybe it's available online someplace else too, Ancestry or FMP?

Kit

26-04-16, 04:05

I've seen the book on familysearch thanks Janet.

The entry below has caught my eye too. I have Steeles. Didn't think they were in Fewston but will check it out later.

Janet

26-04-16, 04:18

Thanks. Good to know. Fewston came across my radar too. Not sure if I had family there but it's possible.

Merry

26-04-16, 06:43

So, Mary's bap says (my additions in brackets):

Ripley (Yorkshire) 1790 Bap 11 April born 29 Jan Hogg Mary dau of John the son of William Hogg of Long Martin (Long Marton, Westmoreland) and Sarah dau of Henry Hobson of Hampsthwaite (Yorkshire)

and Rachel's says:

Ripley (Yorkshire) 1793 Bap 3 June born 6 April Hogg Rachell dau of John Hogg of Sprusety (Spruisty, Killinghall, Ripley, Yorkshire) the son of Wm Hogg of Warcop (Westmoreland) and Sarah dau of Henry Hobson of Hampsthwaite (Yorkshire)

Others to check out are:

William 25 Apr 1784
John 30 Apr 1786
Richard 15 Jun 1788

The marriage of John and Sarah is on fmp (image). They married in Ripley 3 Feb 1780. Both described as "of Killinghall in this parish". Bachelor and spinster, he signed, she made her mark. Witnesses Wm Hobson and Christopher Holms (both signed).

Kit

26-04-16, 08:10

thanks Merry.

For anyone else that reads this and is interested there are a few possible children after Rachel : Joseph 1795, Henry 1797, James 1799.

Most baptisms mention poor, parish relief or pauper linking them between the different parishes.

JBee

26-04-16, 08:26

I thought I'd given you this link that has Fewston records.

http://www.wharfegen.org.uk/index.php

They had a stand at the WDYTYA and I had a chat with a lady there as they helped me with my Bradley family in Fewston c1800.

Kit

26-04-16, 08:51

Another question - when it says William of Warcop, for example, that means where the father was living at the time, doesn't it?

Kit

26-04-16, 08:55

JBee

26-04-16, 09:07

That's a shame.

I just skimmed the thread and didn't see the link so wondered if I hadn't given it to you.

Merry

26-04-16, 09:09

Another question - when it says William of Warcop, for example, that means where the father was living at the time, doesn't it?

Father/grandfather, yes.

Merry

26-04-16, 09:12

Kit

26-04-16, 12:59

That's a shame.

I just skimmed the thread and didn't see the link so wondered if I hadn't given it to you.

It helped with other people, so I am very happy with the link. :)

Kit

26-04-16, 13:01

Sarah Hobson's baptism and a brother William who may e the witness at her marriage:

Sarah Hobson 9 May 1755 Hampsthwaite, York, England father Henry

William Hobson 1 Feb 1759 Hampsthwaite, York, England father Henry

Thanks Merry. I saw that today, Sarah, that is. I ended up tracing Mary's family to see if that gave me anything else, which it hasn't so far.

Kit

30-04-16, 08:16

Sarah Hobson's baptism and a brother William who may e the witness at her marriage:

Sarah Hobson 9 May 1755 Hampsthwaite, York, England father Henry

William Hobson 1 Feb 1759 Hampsthwaite, York, England father Henry

Merry, where did you get Sarah's baptism?

All I can find is an unknown Hobson in 1755 on FMP.

Merry

30-04-16, 14:50

I copied and pasted it from the England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 on Ancestry, but there's also a transcription of it in the Yorkshire, England, Extracted Church of England Parish Records (also on Ancestry). That second dataset tells us Henry was a weaver. The transcript for William also says Henry was a weaver and that he was "of ye Hollins" in Hampstwaite.

There was also this entry in the second dataset:

Henry Hobson & Mary Hardisty of this par. by banns 27 Aug 1754 E. Bainbridge vic. Wit. Rich. Harrison, Jos. Thackeray

Book:
Marriages. (Marriage)

Collection:
Yorkshire: Hampstwaite - Registers of Marriages, 1603-1807, Registers of Baptisms and Burials, 1603-1794

Kit

01-05-16, 06:12

Thanks Merry. I had it in my head there was an image but I can't find a clear one.

Kit

01-05-16, 06:23

Moving of to Mary Hardisty and her family. Her father is Arthur and she has sisters Ann and Elizabeth.

I can't work out from the images when they were baptised.

Could someone please have a look and explain? Thanks

Ann Hardisty Baptism left column half way down (http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fyorkshire%2f007588355%2f00110&parentid=gbprs%2fyorkshire%2fbap%2f2150402&highlights=%22%22)

It says baptised PO and what might be a Y or 7

Mary Hardisty father Arth half way down (http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fyorkshire%2f007588355%2f00122&parentid=gbprs%2fyorkshire%2fbap%2f2150642&highlights=%22%22)

It says baptised 9. We just assume October?

Also please look at Arthur's death. I can't work out his occupation. It looks like Lor with a little e on top. Arthur Hardisty Burial (http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fyorkshire%2f007588355%2f00169&parentid=gbprs%2fyorkshire%2fbur%2f3420219&highlights=%22%22)

Merry

01-05-16, 07:15

Could someone please have a look and explain? Thanks

I've only looked at Ann's so far, but for that one....

If you look further up the page there are clearly baps in the months of April, May June, July and August. The last one recording the month as a word is Aug 5. Then there's 22 and 28, so those are also August. Then there are three dates for the seventh month (5, 14 and 21), the seventh month being September. Then there are a few for the 8th month and then the one above Ann's seems to say Nov 4. Ann's says No 7, so Nov 7th. I struggled with finding the year from the image, but ancestry says 1714!

EDIT

It says baptised 9. We just assume October?

Yes.

Merry

01-05-16, 07:19

Arthur's occ was whitesmith on Mary's baptism, but I'm not sure about the burial.

Merry

01-05-16, 07:33

A lorimer would make the metal parts of a horse bridle, so I wondered if it could be that, but (knowing nothing about horses) I've yet to establish if a lorimer is a specialist blacksmith or a whitesmith!

Kit

01-05-16, 08:26

I worked out Arthur's occupation. I don't think it is him now

Kit

01-05-16, 08:28

I don't know what a whitesmith is. I should find out.

Sorry I read your posts after I posted my last one

Kit

01-05-16, 08:29

A whitesmith is :

a person who makes articles out of metal, especially tin.
a polisher or finisher of metal goods.

Kit

01-05-16, 08:31

I'm confusing Henry and Arthur. I was thinking Arthur was a weaver.

James18

02-05-16, 13:25

Can anyone read what it says for Sarah Jane Prangley here (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1558/31280_197234-00028?pid=3198611&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv%3D1%26dbid%3D1558%26h%3D3198611%26ti d%3D91052939%26pid%3D83022074530%26hid%3D947171878 32%26usePUB%3Dtrue%26_phsrc%3DwnR3096%26_phstart%3 Ddefault%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue&treeid=91052939&personid=83022074530&hintid=94717187832&usePUB=true&_phsrc=wnR3096&_phstart=default&usePUBJs=true)? (second page, third from top)

Baptized July 27th, born... ?

Merry

02-05-16, 13:47

James18

02-05-16, 14:08

Thanks, Merry. :)

Kit

27-04-19, 13:36

I thought I'd add to this post rather than start a new one as it is about Rachel.

I'm adding my tree to ancestry and thought I'd add the second marriage to see if there are any half relations but having a look at an online tree I think I'm wrong about the second marriage.

To recap Rachel Hogg married Stephen Dawson in 1815 at Fewston.
Stephen died in 1823.

I then have Rachel Dawson marrying James Walmsley in 1828 at Otley.
They have a child James Maud Walmsley in 1829.
Rachel dies in 1834.

My problem is that the online tree I looked at has this information and given the middle name of the son I think my Rachel did not marry James Walmsley.

Other tree:
Rachel Maud b 1787 Guisley married Samuel Dawson 1814 Harewood.
Samuel dies 1826 Harewood and Rachel marries James Walmsley 1828.

This is the only tree for James Maud Walmsley that makes sense, the rest don't add up and it explains the Maud middle name for the son.

Could someone please have a look and see if the other tree is correct?

James Walmsley, whether mine or not, is alive and well in 1851 and living with his sister Julia Ann Appleyard, who was the witness to his wedding to whichever Rachel he married. His occupation is Hatter.

kiterunner

27-04-19, 16:21

I'm looking at a tree which seems to be pretty well-researched although the sources are typed out rather than on attached images, and the middle name Maud does seem to confirm Rachel's maiden name - though of course if James had been a girl we couldn't be so sure!

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/118126696/person/300169209983/facts

Merry

27-04-19, 16:31

That place 'Spruisty' mentioned in post #2 of this thread is near Harrogate, so Rachel Dawson aged 69 a widow on the 1861 census born Harrogate could be yours.

Sorry, I can't post a link because both Ancestry and FMP are not letting me back in, so I hope I've remembered the details correctly.

Obviously she would have to be a widow on all earlier census returns too, but I can't look to see!

kiterunner

27-04-19, 17:37

This is the link to that 1861 census entry:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8767/WRYRG9_3283_3284-0250?pid=10100168&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx9545&_phstart=successSource

kiterunner

27-04-19, 17:45

So this could be Rachel in 1851, since post #26 says baptised at Ripley (but sorry to say I haven't reread the whole thread, just searched it for Ripley!):

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8860/YRKHO107_2320_2320-0468?pid=12438532&treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx9546&_phstart=successSource

No 8 Templar Ct, Leeds
Rachel Dawson Head Widow 61 Domestic Yorks Ripley
Mary Ann Dawson Dau U 29 Flax Rover Do Pateley
Eliza Marshel(?) Lodger Mar 27 Flax Rover Yorks Leeds.

There is a Mary Dawson, widow, age 60 next door.

Now to look back through the thread to see whether this is likely.

kiterunner

27-04-19, 17:50

Oh, and a possible 1841:

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/8978/WRYHO107_1311_1312-0353/14811425?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=Return

Scotland Mill, Addle cum Eccup, Yorkshire
Rachel Dawson 45 Spinner Y
Sarah Do 20 Y
Mary Do 15 Y.

kiterunner

27-04-19, 17:57

Bother, I was hoping that the names of Stephen and Rachel's children would be somewhere in this thread! But FamilySearch does have baptisms for Sarah Dawson 24 Sep 1820 and Mary Anne Dawson 9 Dec 1821, both at Pateley Bridge, daughters of Stephen and Rachel.

Kit

28-04-19, 00:33

Thanks for looking. That tree was not the one I saw last night, strange it did not appear but yes, it is just as well researched as the one I did see.

The known children for Stephen and Rachel are : Jonathan bap 29/4/1816. John bap 24/1/1819 and Stephen bap and buried March 1824, all at Fewston. Stephen Snr was also buried at Fewston. They lived at West End.

I've found Sarah and Mary's baptisms on FMP. Ancestry wont even show me the ones I've had before for my people.

Mary Dawson (https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=S2/GBPRS/YORKSHIRE/13-0743-GB-YOR-PARISH-REGISTERS-PR-PAT-1-11-1537-1900/00065&parentid=GBPRS/YORKSHIRE/BAP/600199009)

Sarah Dawson (https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=S2/GBPRS/YORKSHIRE/13-0743-GB-YOR-PARISH-REGISTERS-PR-PAT-1-11-1537-1900/00058&parentid=GBPRS/YORKSHIRE/BAP/600198885)

Stephen is some sort of spinner for Sarah's baptism and I can't work out where they live either. He is a labourer and they live at Cliff Lane for Mary.

I agree that the census 1841-1861 census Rachel is the mother of Sarah and Mary. My question is would they move from Fewston to Pateley Bridge and back again?

I also wonder who the Mary Dawson next door is. Stephen Sr was the only child who lived to adulthood and I haven't gone back beyond his father to know if there were any uncles.

Kit

28-04-19, 05:22

Just to make life interesting it looks like Sarah was also baptised in a Wesleyan church
Sarah Dawson 2 (https://www.ancestry.com.au/interactive/2972/40612_B0151414-00031/840156?backurl=https://www.ancestry.com.au/family-tree/person/tree/160359536/person/422096772949/facts#?imageId=40612_B0151414-00032)

I can't find a second baptism for Mary Anne.

Kit

28-04-19, 05:53

I've found a marriage for a Sarah in 1848 to a David Smith. Nothing to say she is mine but she lives in Regent St and there is a marriage in 1847 for a John Dawson to Sarah Crabtree and John also lived in Regent St. Both fathers were Stephen. One Stephen an overlooker, the other a yarn dresser.

Stephen was a labourer for everything else except Sarah's baptism. I'm not sure if the girls are mine but it is compelling as that is the only possible sighting for John besides his baptism and being a witness at his brother's wedding.

Merry

28-04-19, 08:17

I did a search on FMP for children born in Yorkshire to parents Stephen and Rachel twenty years either way from 1820 (to try any capture any other couple with the same names). Here's the baps I found:

Fewston 29 Apr 1816 Jonathan the son of Stephen and Rachel Dawson of West End, labourer

Fewston 24 Jan 1819 John the son of Stephen and Rachel Dawson of West End, labourer

Ripon born 1st d(ay) - can't read the month - bap 12 Sept 1820 Sarah the daughter of Stephen and Rachel Dawson of Wilsill township of Low Bishopside, parish of Ripon, flax spinner

(transcripts of the above image say it's Wesleyan, but I can't see anything on the image to support this. I was suspicious about the low number of entries for a place like Ripon though, so I checked the start of the register book. Still looks like C of E until this page:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record/browse?id=tna%2frg4%2f4104%2f0%2f0005

which suggests it's a Wesleyan register book after all!)

Pateley Bridge 24 Sep 1820 Sarah the daughter of Stephen and Rachel Dawson of Wilsil(l), line spinner (some transcriptions of this entry say 1819, but the image is definitely 1820)

Pateley Bridge 9 Dec 1821 Mary Ann the daughter of Stephen and Rachel Dawson of Cliff Lane, labourer

Fewston 2 Mar 1824 Stephen the son of Rachael and her late husband Stephen Dawson of West End, widow

There are images of the some BTs as well as PRs on FMP, but they don't give any further info.

Fewston to Pateley Bridge is 7 miles.

Stephen Dawson was buried at Fewston in Oct 1823, but his abode at death says Wilsill, so I think that ties all these entries together nicely :)