John and Rebecca Lawrence

[Sue from Southend]

John and Rebecca are my 4x gt grandparents. If I knew them John's grandparents would be the subject of this weeks Take Four 6x Gt Grandparents:rolleyes:

I know very little of them - they baptised a daughter, Elizabeth Mary Lawrence in St Dunstan's, Stepney, Middlesex 1815 and John was a shoemaker. That's it! I've never found any other children and although there is a possible marriage I've not been convinced as yet.

However I have recently found several Settlement Exams for a John and Rebecca Lawrence which has thrown up lots of questions and I can't decide whether or not they are "my" couple.

In 1810 Rebecca, wife of John Laurence is removed from Southwark St George to Mile End Old Town with her daughter, Sarah aged abt 6mths. the suggestion that John has deserted her has been crossed out.http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2651/32966_612057_2778-00080/322392?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dLMApoorlawsettlement%26gss%3d sfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dreb*%2 6gsfn_x%3d0%26gsln%3dla%253Frence%26gsln_x%3d0%26M SAV%3d0%26uidh%3dzs8&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=32966_61205 7_2778-00080

I have since found Sarah's baptism in St George the Martyr, Southwark in 1810 (b Dec 1809)

In 1814 there is a Settlement Exam for John Lawrence in which he states that his father John was a shoemaker (but not that he is as far as I can make out) and that he has a wife Rebecca and daughter Sarah and that he and Rebecca were married in 1808 in St Leonard Foster Lane, which is the marriage I've been in two minds about.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2651/32966_605905_2124-00268/370740?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dLMApoorlawsettlement%26gss%3d sfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dreb*%2 6gsfn_x%3d0%26gsln%3dla%253Frence%26gsln_x%3d0%26M SAV%3d0%26uidh%3dzs8&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Then in 1854 there is a Settlement Exam for Rebecca, aged 69 yrs. There is a comment that her "recollection is defective" but with that in mind she claims to have had 10 children, only one surviving, Sarah, now married to .....Berry. She and John parted 21 yrs previously and she hasn't seen him since.
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2651/32966_636672_2049-00361/385457?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dLMApoorlawsettlement%26gss%3d sfs28_ms_r_db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3dreb*%2 6gsfn_x%3d0%26gsln%3dla%253Frence%26gsln_x%3d0%26M SAV%3d0%26uidh%3dzs8&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

My problem is that I still can't link this couple to my Elizabeth Mary Lawrence. http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=6900

So, who were the other nine children? Where did John go? There are possible sightings of Rebecca in 1841 and 51 but not definite and where and when did they die?

Apologies for the length of this. I hope it's not too confusing......

Thanks for reading :)

[kiterunner]

Here is Sarah's marriage to Edward Berry, 2 May 1829 at Christ Church, City of London:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1623/31281_A100844-00017/1341636?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3dLMAmarriages%26gss%3dsfs28_ms _db%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1% 26gsfn%3dsar*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dla%253fr*n*%26 gsln_x%3d1%26msgpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3d1%2 6mssns%3db%253frry%26mssns_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh %3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

Witnesses are J Wright and Anne Reeve, but both of them are witnesses at other weddings so probably not relatives of the bride or groom.

[kiterunner]

There is a Sarah Maria Berry, daughter of Edward and Sarah of Water Lane, father a plumber, baptised 12 Jun 1835 at Brixton St Matthew, and in 1841 she is in Norwood Workhouse. But I don't know whether it's the same Edward / Sarah couple as there seem to be quite a few. In the poor law records (the ones that you linked to) it said Sarah was using the surname Francis later.

[Sue from Southend]

Thanks Kite. I had found Sarah's marriage but had not followed her daughter through. I'd love to know why Sarah was using the name Francis - perhaps she left Edward and took up with Mr Francis?

I've searched for marriages of possible children of John and Sarah to no avail. There's an address for Sarah on the 1854 record but I don't have FMP at present to do an address search to see if she's there in 1851.

The witnesses on Elizabeth Mary's marriage are of no help either.....

[Phoenix]

It also looks as if there are at least three John and Rebecca Lawrences having children c 1815. In the marriage to Rebecca Fielding, John signs, but in one of the settlement dox he makes his mark.

[kiterunner]

The address for Sarah from that 1854 record is Green Gate Gardens, Hack[ney] Rd, and it says that Rebecca was there for about 3 or 4 months around 1850.

[kiterunner]

Hmm, there are some Berrys at Green Gate Gardens in 1851, but not the right ones:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/MDXHO107_1539_1539-0674/273004?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1851%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d185 1UKI%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3dnat*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3db%253frry%26gsln _x%3d1%26msbpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msy pn__ftp_x%3d1%26mssng%3djane%26mssng_x%3d1%26MSAV% 3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Sue from Southend]

I've been trying to find a link between the two Berry families without any success. Though I'm not sure what it would prove if I did find a link!

I may have to trawl through unindexed Poor Law records to see if Rebecca appears elsewhere mentioning any of her other children....