Was Mary Ann Holland Irish?

[Lindsay]

The new Irish records on FMP and Ancestry have inspired me to have another go at finding Mary Ann Holland, who claimed in 1851 to be born in Cork about 1806-1810. So far I haven't found her.

Here's her TOGG3:
http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=8880&highlight=mary+holland

1835-ish she was probably in Liverpool, as that's where her eldest child Margaret usually said she was born (no baptism found)
1836-1841 she was in Stepney, east London, with husband William Anderson (no marriage found but possibly took place in Liverpool? Family story was that he was Scottish) and they had another 4 children all bap. and buried at St George in the East:
James (b. 1836 d.1838)
Mary Ann (b. and d.1838)
Jane (b. 1839)
William (b. 1841 d.1844)

Husband William Anderson died 1850.

I can't find them in 1841, though they were living in Crown Court before and after the census.

Here she is in 1851 with 2 surviving daughters, and 2 lodgers one of whom also says he was b. Cork:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/MDXHO107_1549_1550-0382/459970?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1851%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db %26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26gsfn%3djane%26gsfn_x%3d0%2 6gsln%3danderson%26gsln_x%3d0%26msbdy%3d1839%26msb ng%3dmargaret%26MSAV%3d0%26uidh%3d584&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

and in 1861, when she says she was born Stepney and daughter Margaret was born Limehouse (I doubt this info - Margaret's husband had just died, Margaret was pregnant, and filling in the census was probably the last thing on their minds. In fact Margaret's son appears twice, here and with his aunt):
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/MDXRG9_305_309-0221/5981658?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1861%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d186 1UKI%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dmargaret %26gsfn_x%3d0%26gsln%3dstanbury%26gsln_x%3d0%26MSA V%3d0%26uidh%3d584&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

I haven't found Mary Ann after 1861.

Can anyone spot anything I have missed? There are a few Hollands listed in Cork in the Irish records but none that look like my MAH.

[kiterunner]

Was she definitely Catholic, Lindsay?

[Lindsay]

I don't have any evidence that she was - the children were all bap, married and buried in the C of E.

[kiterunner]

If she wasn't Catholic then we wouldn't expect her to be in the new records anyway.

[Lindsay]

I was hoping she might have been a lapsed Catholic! There are Holland entries for Cork so some Hollands were Catholic.

[kiterunner]

Hmm, ancestry has an entry in their "Irish Records Extraction Database" (i.e. an older database, not the new Catholic parish registers): William Anderson married Mary Holland, 1831, Diocese of Cork & Ross, County Cork, Ireland.

It shows source details as: Albert Eugene Casey, Eleanor L. Downey-Prince, and Ursula Dietrich.. Index of O'Kief, Coshe Mange, Slieve Lougher and Upper Blackwater in Ireland. 16 vols. Birmingham, Alabama: Knocknagree Historical Fund, 1952-1971. See

I'll see if I can find this record anywhere else, perhaps with more information.

[kiterunner]

There are a few Mary Holland baptisms in the new records on ancestry just outside your date range:
Mary Holland baptised 9 Sep 1805 St Finnbarr's (South), Cork City, Cork, parents Daniel and Ellen
Mary Holland baptised 22 Mar 1812 Clonakilty, Cork, parents John and Mary
Mary Holland baptised 24 Sep 1813 St Finnbarr's (South), Cork City, Cork, parents John and Honora

[kiterunner]

Some records in that "Irish Records Extraction Database" do show full details of whereabouts in the books they come from, so you can figure out the parish etc but it looks as though the info about the William Anderson / Mary Holland marriage is cut off partway through. There is some information about the books on Cork City Council's website and they have an index but it doesn't seem to be a name index.
http://www.corkpastandpresent.ie/genealogy/traceyourcorkancestors/

[Lindsay]

[QUOTE=kiterunner;316257]Hmm, ancestry has an entry in their "Irish Records Extraction Database" (i.e. an older database, not the new Catholic parish registers): William Anderson married Mary Holland, 1831, Diocese of Cork & Ross, County Cork, Ireland.
QUOTE]

Wow, that looks interesting! I hadn't seen that. Definitely worth following up - thank you!

None of the Mary Holland baptisms leapt out at me - the dates were either a bit early or a bit late, and the parents' names didn't seem to match the names MAH gave to her own children. Not that that proves anything, of course.

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch's "WorldCat" lists other locations of the books:
http://www.worldcat.org/title/okief-coshe-mang-slieve-lougher-and-upper-blackwater-in-ireland/oclc/827660

[Lindsay]

Thanks very much for that. I'll do some digging to see if I can find more.

[Macbev]

Thanks for that, Kite. Hadn't realised Perth State Library had a copy.....spent ages trawling through the copy in Milltown, co Kerry,when I visited Irish cousins, looking for my Gleesons. I'll try to get into my library next week to check on my findings and will look for the Anderson/ Holland marriage if possible.

[Lindsay]

Macbev, thank you, it would be brilliant if you could (but only if you don't have to go through all 16 volumes!) :D

(and thanks once again to Kiterunner who is brilliant at pulling something out of the hat when I thought I'd exhausted all possibilities!)

[Macbev]

Have been in to the Perth state Library to flip through the Eugene Casey volumes....have not located the entry relating to Mary Holland/ William Anderson as yet, but I plan to return and do some more digging, so don't give up hope immediately.

Today was merely a preliminary skirmish while I tried to work out how to operate what was a really primitive publication. There are indexes, but the body of the work is hard to navigate - and I am not quite sure what each volume holds yet. However, I did notice that the collected records include some non-RC BDMs. Is there a possibility your man was a soldier at one time - I noticed the C of I entries mentioned several soldiers in Cork

[Shona]

There are a number of Mary Holland baptisms on FMP's Irish Catholic baptisms. Was she born in Cork city?

[Lindsay]

Macbev, from what I've read it seems to be a very idiosyncratic publication. I really appreciate your efforts.

William Anderson gives his occupation variously as mariner, stevedore and dock labourer on his children's baptisms - mariner seems the most likely to have taken him to Cork.

All I have for Mary Holland's origin is the 1851 census which just says Cork, Ireland.

[Lindsay]

I've now discovered what is probably the original record for the Mary Holland and William Anderson marriage that Kite found on Ancestry's Irish Records Extraction Database.

It's on FMP, in the Ireland Diocesan and Prerogative Marriage Licence Bonds Indexes. The original doesn't add any extra info, just their names, the year and the fact that it's the diocese of Cork and Ross, but nice to see it.