View Full Version : 1939 Register Questions
I've not taken in a lot of the conversations about this as I thought I had years before it would become part of the subscription so apologies if this has been discussed.
When it first came out I did a free search for my Grandma although I know her record will be closed as she died here and they wont know that. I'm sure I got some sort of result and I worked out she was living with her sister.
Now I can't get any results although her sister has a closed record living with her.
Has something changed in the results they give?
Next question - Grandma would be 100 in a months time so will her record automatically be opened shortly after that date?
Now for the really clever researchers.
My Grandma's aunt Ada Ethel Hickenbotham is living with her husband, 2 closed records, probably her children, and a woman called Ada Dawson born 17 March 1874, widow.
Ada Hickenbotham's maiden name is Dawson so I'm thinking the other Ada must be an in-law as she is widowed. None of Ada's brothers had wives called Ada and they were also all alive in 1939. Ada's father was the only son so Ada (Snr) is not an aunt. Ada's grandfather (Jonathan) has one brother (John) I can't trace but I feel like he died young.
So who is Ada (Snr)?
kiterunner
17-02-16, 22:50
If your grandmother's record is closed then you would not have got a (correct) result when you searched for her.
Yes, her record should open automatically 100 years after her date of birth - assuming it was filled in correctly and has been transcribed correctly.
I'll have a look at Ada tomorrow, but can you give Ada Ethel Hickenbotham's date of birth, please?
Absolutely. It is 25/6/1890 on the 1939 register. She was actually born in 1892, according to FreeBMD and also baptised in 1892, parents George Alfred and Mary, nee Hand.
Her husband is Frank.
Ada could not have been born in 1890, unless 3+ months premature as her older sister was born 24 Dec 1889.
I've been trying to kill off John Dawson, who is the only person who could possibly, as far as I can work out, who could have a connection to Ada (snr).
I've found this marriage for a John Dawson whose father is Stephen but I can't find him in the census. I don't know if he is mine or not as my Stephen died when John was young but I thought I'd follow it. However my luck at the moment is not good and I can't find anything.
John Dawson marriage (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2253/32355_249418-00328/8268531?backurl=&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)
John was a widow so he may have children from his first wife.
The Ada E you are looking at in 1939 seems to be Ada Elizabeth not Ada Ethel.
Death Reg:
Name: Ada Elizabeth Hickinbotham
Birth Date: 25 Jun 1890
Date of Registration: Jun 1979
Age at Death: 89
Registration district: Walsall
Inferred County: West Midlands
Volume: 34
Page: 0393
And I should think this is her birth reg:
Births Sep 1890
Dawson Ada Elizabeth Walsall 6b 684
I can't do any more as my brain is seriously hurting over Facebook now
Does this just mean you have the wrong marriage for your Ada E Dawson?
Is this yours?
Births Mar 1892
Dawson Ada Ethel Newcastle L. 6b 56
Marriages Jun 1927
Dawson Ada E Farrington Newcastle L. 6b 123
Farrington Thomas L Dawson Newcastle L. 6b 123
Name: Ada Ethel Farrington
Birth Date: 5 Dec 1891
Date of Registration: Mar 1977
Age at Death: 85
Registration district: Stoke on Trent
Volume: 30
Page: 1767
In 1939 Ada has said she was b 5 Dec 1896, probably because her OH was born in 1900! (15 Oct):
Births Dec 1900
Farrington Thomas Lunt Wolstanton 6b 76
Hello, yes, you are right. I did have the wrong marriage. Not sure what I did there.
So Ada Snr is not mine either, thank goodness.
However John Dawson from post #5 is mine, so if you could please have a look into him I'd appreciate that.
I'll be back once I remove the wrong people from my tree.
Funnily enough I'm sure Dad knew people of that name...
Stephen, the father of my John, was very helpfully a labourer on his children's baptisms, so the occupation on the marriage is wrong but as he was dead it is possible it was embellished or Mum remarried, so they used the step father's occupation, as they didn't remember what Dad did?
kiterunner
18-02-16, 16:49
Toni, I'm not sure whether you are saying that the John Dawson whose marriage you linked to in post #5 is definitely yours, or if that is what we are trying to find out? Can you give us details of when and where your John Dawson was born / baptised, please?
I have a John Dawson with a father Stephen. I do not know of the marriage I posted is that of my John. Part of me feels it isn't mine as it didn't say Stephen was deceased but I know not all registers do and it is the only Stephen I have come across.
John was baptised in Fewston Yorkshire on 24/1/1819, father Stephen, mother Rachel/Rachael (nee Hogg). John had an older brother Jonathan (baptised 29/4/1816), who is my direct ancestor and a younger brother Stephen, baptised 2/3/1824 died in 4/3/1824, and sadly never met his father, who died 1/10/1823.
Rachel disappeared and I have not been able to work out what happened to her.
Rachel disappeared
I'm only part way through looking at this, but am running out of time -
There's a marriage on ancestry for Rachel Dawson, widow, to James Walmsley on 1 Nov 1828 at All Saints Otley which is five miles from Fewston. James's marital status is not given but his occupation is - he is a hatter.
Looking at Otley baps I found:
William Edward son of James and Ellen bap Nov 1822
John son of James and Ellen bap Dec 1824
James Maude son of James and Rachel bap Dec 1829
There's a marriage of James Walmsley of Otley to Ellen Watkinson in 1821 at Guiseley. It's possible/probable this is the same groom
Anyway, moving on to the 1841 census
Kirkgate, Otley
James Walmsley Hatter 35 yes
William 15 Yes
James 9 Yes
So, William listed as 15 when he's 19 is fine as he should be rounded down. James' age is a bit out, but close enough given father's occ fits. I presume Rachel has died but I've not looked for her at all, nor looked other than for two seconds at the 1851 where I found nothing but I think I only looked for the correct spelling (can't remember!)
Must dash..........
widower hatter in 1851 (4th entry)
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/YRKHO107_2285_2285-0347/13901064?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1851%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROO T_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsln%3dwal*y%26gsln_x%3d1%26mswpn__ftp_x%3d1%26gsk w%3dotley%26gskw_x%3d1%26_83004002_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d 1%26cp%3d11%26catbucket%3drstp%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3 d672&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
thanks Merry. I'll have a look soon. Have to do something now
Name: Rachel Walmsley
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Burial Date: 22 Jan 1834
Burial Place: Otley, York, England
Spouse: James Walmsley
FHL Film Number: 918402
Reference ID: 2153
thanks Merry.
I wonder where Rachel's children are?
ElizabethHerts
19-02-16, 12:59
All Saints, Otley
Burials
4/4/1828 Walmsley Isabella 6 mth Bradford Dau of John
27/6/1828 Walmsley Richard 45 Burley
25/1/1829 Walmsley John 7 wks Bradford Son of John
5/4/1829 Walmsley Joseph 4 mth Bradford Son of John
20/11/1831 Walmsley Miles 14 Newall Son of William
15/6/1832 Walmsley Charles Burley Son of Nanny
20/9/1832 Walmsley William 26 Otley Son of William
22/1/1834 Walmsley Rachel 45 Otley Wife of James
12/9/1834 Walmsley Isabel 34 Bradford Wife of John
26/4/1843 Walmsley Eleanor Jane 29 Otley
6/5/1846 Walmsley William Edward 23 Otley
30/9/1848 Walmsley William 70 Newhall
Baptisms All Saints' Otley
6/12/1829 James Maude James & Rachel Walmsley born 1 Nov 1820 Abode Otley Hat Manufacturer
Edit: Sorry, I have been duplicating information. I have lots of booklets for All Saints, Otley from the Wharfedale Family History Group.
3x baptisms 1813 - 1837
Marriages 1813 - 1825
3x burials 1813- 1850
Yell if you need any more information.
thanks Merry.
I wonder where Rachel's children are?
Well I presume you know where your Jonathan went? And her only other surviving child is James Maude Walmsley. Here is his death:
Deaths Mar 1872
WALMSLEY James Maud 42 Bradford, Y. 9b 168
His probate entry says his widow was called Sarah.
Here they are in 1871 with a nice lot of children for you to investigate!
http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?indiv=1&db=uki1871&gss=angs-d&new=1&rank=1&msT=1&MS_AdvCB=1&gsln=walmsley&gsln_x=1&mswpn__ftp_x=1&gskw=calverley&gskw_x=1&_83004002_x=1&cpxt=1&cp=11&catbucket=rstp&MSAV=2&uidh=672&pcat=35&fh=3&h=26114626&recoff=&ml_rpos=4
Oh, I'd forgotten about this one who is the person I was supposed to be looking for!
John (Dawson) was baptised in Fewston Yorkshire on 24/1/1819
No, I've not found him yet. He might have said he was born in Otley rather than Fewston I suppose.
Hello yes, I meant John. You are right, he may have changed where he lived, he may also have said his father was James.
Elizabeth, thanks for the information. Could you have a look for a death for a John Dawson please.
I know what happened to Jonathan in the long term. I'm unsure about the 1841 census but given I know what area Rachel went to I'll have another look.
Why do I have busy periods when I want to sit on ancestry and FMP? lol
Have you looked at this site for Fewston.
http://wharfegen.org.uk/
ElizabethHerts
21-02-16, 17:39
I have a John Dawson with a father Stephen. I do not know of the marriage I posted is that of my John. Part of me feels it isn't mine as it didn't say Stephen was deceased but I know not all registers do and it is the only Stephen I have come across.
John was baptised in Fewston Yorkshire on 24/1/1819, father Stephen, mother Rachel/Rachael (nee Hogg). John had an older brother Jonathan (baptised 29/4/1816), who is my direct ancestor and a younger brother Stephen, baptised 2/3/1824 died in 4/3/1824, and sadly never met his father, who died 1/10/1823.
Rachel disappeared and I have not been able to work out what happened to her.
My burials only go up to 1850.
27 April 1850
John Dawson
aged 28
from Otley
Killed in Westgate
But the age is a couple of years out.
Julie, no I haven't but I will be shortly.
Elizabeth thank you. I'll start searching the newspapers to see what I can find out.
John Dawson (http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000155%2f18500425%2f034)
This John Dawson is not mine. John was single, a sawyer and had a brother Robert.
A sad story, he tried to help his brother who was being attacked by a group a drunk men but they ended up killing him instead.
Have you looked at this site for Fewston.
http://wharfegen.org.uk/
It took me a few hours to have them accept my registration but this site is wonderful.
They have spent the last 20 odd years creating family trees out of the parish registers for the area they are interested in.
They do not come down closer than Stephen Dawson, John and Jonathan's father but they do go backwards and have confirmed a few things I've thought but didn't yet have enough evidence for. Sadly FMP and Ancestry do not seem to have the registers online to have the visual proof but it is very good to see what they have.
ElizabethHerts
22-02-16, 15:41
It took me a few hours to have them accept my registration but this site is wonderful.
They have spent the last 20 odd years creating family trees out of the parish registers for the area they are interested in.
They do not come down closer than Stephen Dawson, John and Jonathan's father but they do go backwards and have confirmed a few things I've thought but didn't yet have enough evidence for. Sadly FMP and Ancestry do not seem to have the registers online to have the visual proof but it is very good to see what they have.
What precise area do they cover, Toni?
I live in the next town to Otley and often visit Toni, so if there is anything I can do to help, just shout. There is a very old graveyard but I think a lot of the graves are quite illegible now. There is a really nice reservoir at Fewston which I have walked around many times!
Elizabeth this is what it says : The Wharfedale & Craven Genealogical Study is an ongoing project to construct the family lines and histories of individuals and families who may have lived the Wharfedale and Craven areas of Yorkshire.
I'll try and see if there is anything more specific.
I live in the next town to Otley and often visit Toni, so if there is anything I can do to help, just shout. There is a very old graveyard but I think a lot of the graves are quite illegible now. There is a really nice reservoir at Fewston which I have walked around many times!
Thanks for the offer Tom.
Can I pick your brains? Is there more than one church in Fewston?
The old parish church is st Michael and St Lawrence in Fewston. There is a church at Blubberhouses, which is about 2 miles from Fewston. There are a few little churches nestled into the hills, and I only know these two because they are along routes that I drive fairly frequently. I can have a drive across next weekend as I know there are a couple of others, but can never remember which they are!
I've joined, Toni. Thanks!
Elizabeth this is the Top 30 largest localities (total places):
1. Lancashire (2,154)
2. Otley (1,635)
3. Bradford (1,578)
4. Skipton (1,284)
5. Leeds (1,167)
6. Kildwick (727)
7. Nidderdale (593)
8. Keighley (527)
9. Addingham (479)
10. Guiseley (460)
11. Bingley (449)
12. London (388)
13. Halifax (351)
14. Fewston (350)
15. Lancashire] (333)
16. Calverley (323)
17. Ilkley (315)
18. Lancashire) (309)
19. Hampsthwaite (276)
20. Linton (258)
21. County Durham (218)
22. Knaresborough (210)
23. Burnsall (205)
24. Wensleydale (198)
25. Australia] (182)
26. Kirkby Malzeard (167)
27. USA] (164)
28. Harewood (160)
29. Ripon (159)
30. Nidderdale) (157)
The old parish church is st Michael and St Lawrence in Fewston. There is a church at Blubberhouses, which is about 2 miles from Fewston. There are a few little churches nestled into the hills, and I only know these two because they are along routes that I drive fairly frequently. I can have a drive across next weekend as I know there are a couple of others, but can never remember which they are!
I was going to ask if you could take a photo of the church my family went to but the registers all say the parish church, as if there is only one. I think it must be St Michael and St Lawrence. If you are driving past and could take a photo I would really appreciate it. Don't put yourself out though, only when you are going that way anyway and have time.
I've joined, Toni. Thanks!
Don't thank me, thank JBee, she found it.
Oh, quite right! Thank you so much, Julie.
You raved about it so much, Toni, that I lost sight of who it came from in the first place.
I just wish the parish registers were online for everything I want. I just like to see the originals.
Can't have it all at once though. :)
Have got some photos for you Toni.
Do you want to PM me your email address?
Looking at Otley baps I found:
William Edward son of James and Ellen bap Nov 1822
John son of James and Ellen bap Dec 1824
James Maude son of James and Rachel bap Dec 1829
Was this on familysearch or somewhere else please Merry?
I got them from England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 on ancestry. No images there, but they are also on this ancestry database: West Yorkshire, England, Church of England Births and Baptisms, 1813-1910 with images but variable name spellings, see below:
William Edward Walmsley
John Walmoley
and the one with Rachel is transcribed as:
James McCauley
born Nov 1829
James McCauley,
Rachel McCauley
no bap date transcribed but it is 6 Dec 1828 from the image
Anstey Nomad
04-03-16, 20:40
I'm just baffled by this register.
I would like to find my father (1917-1993), but it seems I can't do that without an address. I contacted FMPand they advised mento raise an FOI request with TNA. I did this in November and TNA cane back to be very quickly asking for the address. I explained that I did not have the address, and why, and have heard no more.
I found this extremely stressful and I would imagine now that I will never find out where my father was living in the late thirties.
I have gained no useful information at all from this over-hyped exercise. I've just looked for my aunt (1901-1978) and my uncle (1906-1968) and they aren't coming up either.
kiterunner
04-03-16, 22:15
If you post up the names and dobs you're looking for then we could have a try, AN?
I'm just baffled by this register.
I would like to find my father (1917-1993), but it seems I can't do that without an address.
I am very confused. I couldn't remember your father's name, so I looked to see what threads you had up in the Take One Grandparents etc boards. I found a thread about Fanny Elizabeth Billyard which names her children, one of whom I presumed to be one of your parents. As they were all male and only one of them had the terminal years mentioned here I assumed that was your father. I used his death reg to pick up his dob and searched the 1939 register in Leicestershire for every male with that dob as I imagined he might have completely the wrong name transcribed as my family in Herts did. I thought if I looked at all the images I might find him.
Anyway, when I got the results there were only three matches, but the first one seemed to be the person I was looking for and with the right name, so ..... as I said, I'm confused! *goes for a lie down*
Perhaps they have gone through opening more records for people who have died since 1991 (or whenever the cut of was) in the last few days?
Anstey Nomad
05-03-16, 11:50
I apologise for my grumpy post last night. Gin had been taken.
They must have made some changes because Dad is there now.
That's brilliant. Thank you.
I'm not bothered about the others as I know where they were, but my Dad left home when he was fifteen and I've never known where he was between 1933 and Autumn 1939 when he was called up.
Thanks again.
I didn't think you sounded grumpy!
Glad that's him, anyway! :D
Anstey Nomad
05-03-16, 13:23
I'm ecstatic. Everything in my family is a mystery. I thought I knew a lot, but it turns out that everything my mother told me is not correct, so any snippet of truth helps.
Thanks again
Olde Crone
08-03-16, 18:03
My question:
I do know that the 1939 was updated till 1991 which would explain the presence of as-yet-unborn children on the 1939 register. (redacted).
How did "they" know how much room to leave on the page for those yet to be born?Or is the version we see a transcribed one?
OC
kiterunner
08-03-16, 19:07
They didn't use the pages which had the children added to them for the online version, OC. I think there was a whole page for each household where they did that, but FMP have just got the version where the people who were on the initial list were copied onto street listings, similar to how the censuses had forms for each household and were then copied onto street listings.
Olde Crone
08-03-16, 21:06
Thanks Kate.
So, redacted people at the same address won't be children born after 1939 then?
OC
Thanks Kate.
So, redacted people at the same address won't be children born after 1939 then?
OC
No - they could be evacuees or young adult lodgers etc etc rather than children of the family.
Olde Crone
08-03-16, 21:56
Thanks Merry. Intriguing, isn't it - you don't know who they are unless you know who they are.......
OC
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