late Brown, formerly Williams

[Kit]

I finally received my 2g grandfather's birth certificate !!

It looks like Sarah has been married before but I'm not sure which name is which.

Is Brown her previously married name and Williams her maiden name?

[Oakum Picker]

Yes.

[Kit]

thank you.

Knowing she had married before though is not helping me. :rolleyes:

[Merry]

Can we help, Toni?

[Kit]

Yes please Merry. This is Joseph Bridges birth cert I received today. (it took 2 weeks and 2 working days from date of dispatch for when I next buy one and can't remember the delivery time).

His parents are John Bridges and Sarah late Brown formerly Williams.

I had the name Williams but don't know where I got it but couldn't find a suitable marriage. Clearly that was because she married John as Sarah Brown but I can not find anything either in that name.

It's bugging me as I had found something that looked good but the name was wrong and now I can't find anything, nor remember what I found.

Joseph was born in 1843. His oldest sibling, from memory, is Richard b 1827.

I'm off to bed so not ignoring you. I'll check back in the morning.

[Merry]

From the 1841 census the first few children show as:

Richard aged 14
Sarah aged 11
Frederick 8
Francis 4
Eliza 1

There are baptisms in the LMA records which seem to fit, as follows:

Francis 30 Jun 1837 (born Jan 28 1837)
Elizabeth and Joseph bap 1845 (Eliz born 4 July 1840 and Joseph b 9 Mar 1843)

I can't see anything for the earlier children. I tried Bridges with father John and Brown with mother Sarah, but didn't really get anywhere :o

[kiterunner]

Post #2 on this thread of yours about Sarah has some info about the surname Williams:

http://www.genealogistsforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=23662

[kiterunner]

FamilySearch has a marriage between Richard Brown and Sarah Williams 12 Feb 1827 at St Martin in the Fields, Westminster. Looks likely since the eldest son on that 1841 census was called Richard. I have a feeling the St Martin in the Fields records are only on FMP and not ancestry, off to look.

[kiterunner]

Yes, here it is on FMP:
http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbprs%2fwsmtn%2f5108434%2f00422&parentid=gbprs%2fm%2f492037273%2f1&highlights=%22%22

Doesn't give a lot more info. Both OTP, married by banns, Richard signed, Sarah made her mark, witnesses Henry Andrews and Mary Phillips.

[Kit]

I wonder if the older children were Richard Brown's children and took John's name on the 1841 census? That might explain the lack of baptisms and why I can't find a marriage for Sarah Jr.

Off to have a look. I'd love to solve this mystery.

[kiterunner]

There is a possible James Joseph Watts / Sarah Brown marriage Jul-Sep 1858 Shoreditch but I can't see it in the London PR's on ancestry. Of course it could be a register office marriage.

[kiterunner]

This is pretty tenuous, but there is a James Joseph Watts death Apr-Jun 1897 Poplar, age 79, i.e. born about 1818, and here is a married James Watts of about the right age with no wife on the 1861 census, but needs lots more investigation!


http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8767/KENRG9_402_405-1021/6638277?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1861%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_r_db %26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dja*s %2b%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dwatts%26gsln_x%3d1%26msb dy%3d1816%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msbpn__ftp_ x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3d1%26gskw %3dmid*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults

[Kit]

thanks Kate. I'll see if I can trace him backwards.

I've had no luck with Brown baptisms, although I have 2 possible deaths for Richard, one in 1835 and 1838. They might be too late though.

[kiterunner]

He might not be the right James Watts, though, especially as it doesn't show a middle name on that census entry.

[Kit]

if that marriage is the right one for Sarah then she wasn't free to marry Charles Bower in 1875.

[Kit]

James is unmarried in 1871 and a servant
1871 census (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LNDRG10_780_782-0401/2626643?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1871%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d35% 26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dja* s%2b%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dwatts%26gsln_x%3d1%26ms bdy%3d1816%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msbpn__ftp _x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3d1%26gsk w%3dmid*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults)

[Kit]

Here he is in 1851, married to Mary and a greengrocer.

1851 (http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/8860/MDXHO107_1550_1550-0040/463633?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk% 2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1851%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d35% 26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsfn%3dja* s%2b%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dwatts%26gsln_x%3d1%26ms bdy%3d1816%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d10%26msbpn__ftp _x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3d1%26gsk w%3dmid*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=MDXHO1 07_1550_1550-0040)

[kiterunner]

Probably not the right James then. Sorry for the red herring!

[Kit]

Don't be sorry, at least we ruled him out.

I've not had much luck with the Brown theory, although you probably have the right marriage. Just wish I could find some baptisms to back it up.

[kiterunner]

Just found a marriage on FamilySearch: James Joseph Watts married Elizabeth Smith 8 Aug 1858 at St Leonards Shoreditch. He was transcribed as Walts on ancestry which is why I couldn't find him yesterday.

So we can rule that marriage out! Back to the drawing board for Sarah jr's marriage to a Mr Watts...

[Kit]

B*gger. It looked promising for Sarah being a Brown, which narrows down when Sarah Snr married John Bridges.

[Merry]

which narrows down when Sarah Snr married John Bridges

Maybe she never did?

[Kit]

sshhh that has occurred to me lol