View Full Version : Grandfather st Helens 1871
Hi , I am trying to trace my Grandfather William Henry Eccleston s birth . I have found him on the 1871 census age 3 months in Eccleston St. Helens The census was collated in April. So I assumed he was born in 1871 . But the only birth I can find of the same name is in 1870 born in prescot . I have checked this birth at the register office . And they told me mother unmarried but yet census does not state that . It may be the grandparents have taken responsibility for him . I seem to beable to find him on the next census age 10 living with Grandparents in parr St. Helens they are the Dixons , so this is a bit of a mystery to me . I also presume that the parents have passed away .in between census's any help gratefully received .
I haven't got time to look at this now, but certainly if he is listed as 3 months on the 1871 census he may well have been born in December 1870 (so maybe 3.5 months old for instance) and I see the birth reg you enquired about was in Q4 of that year.
kiterunner
09-02-16, 07:37
This is the 1871 census entry that you mention:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LANRG10_3863_3864-0406/7700139?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1871%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROO T_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dwil*%26g sfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dec*l*t*n%26gsln_x%3d1%26mswpn__ ftp_x%3d1%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26M S_AdvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d1871%26msbpn__ftp_x%3d1%26gs kw_x%3d1%26_83004002_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26 catbucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
61 Grant Street, Eccleston, Lancashire
William Eccleston Head Mar 59 Gardener Lancashire
Mary Do Wife Mar 47 Do
Elizabeth Do Daur Unm 21 Do
George Do Son Unm 19 Miner Do
Mary Jane Do Daur Unm 13 Do
Beatrice Do Daur 9 Scholar Do
Ann Do Daur 6 Do Do
William Henry Do Son 3 mths Do
and the 1881:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LANRG11_3734_3738-1222/9437576?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1881%26so%3d2%26pcat%3dROO T_CATEGORY%26gss%3dangs-g%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26gsfn%3dwil*%26g sfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dec*l*t*n%26gsln_x%3d1%26mswpn__ ftp_x%3d1%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26M S_AdvCB%3d1%26msbdy%3d1871%26msbpn__ftp_x%3d1%26gs kw_x%3d1%26_83004002_x%3d1%26cpxt%3d1%26cp%3d11%26 catbucket%3drstp%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
158 Park Rd, Parr, Lancashire
James Dixon Head Marr 54 Miner St Helens Lanc
Alice Do Wife W(?) 57 Wife " "
John Do Son Unm 21 Miner " "
Hellen Do Daur " 17 " " "
William Eccleston Grand Son " 10 Scoler " "
If he is the illegitimate son of one of the Ecclestons' children (maybe Elizabeth?) then it would not be unusual for the grandparents to put him down as their own son on the census, or indeed to bring him up as their own son, to look respectable.
It looks as though your William married an Ann Grimshaw 14 Nov 1894 at St Paul, Skelmersdale, and the Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website has a transcription of the marriage record which gives details of the bride's father but not the groom's, and this would fit with him being illegitimate.
Hi , yes I was thinking on those lines , but I found a death for William Eccleston , in the area when William Henry was about 8 , so he could have passed away prior to the marriage . I will purchase the birth certificate . As I cannot find another William Eccleston in 1871 , I have looked on all the local parish regs and not found any . So I will have to presume that that birth in prescot his him .
I also wonder , if the William Ecclestons. Father could be a Dixon as he is living with Granparents in parr 1881 , I'm presuming that this is the same boy the dates would tally .
kiterunner
09-02-16, 08:56
There is a Henry Burrows / Elizabeth Eccleston marriage in 1873 at Prescot Register Office (according to Lancashire BMD).
This looks to be that couple in 1881:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7572/LANRG11_3756_3760-0352/9541036?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1881%26so%3d2%26pcat%3d188 1UKI%26gss%3dangs-c%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3dh*r*y%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dbur*o*s%26gsln_ x%3d1%26msbpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msyp n__ftp_x%3d1%26mssng%3deli*%26mssng_x%3d1%26gskw%3 dlanc*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uidh%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
3 Old Farm, Skelmersdale, Lancashire
Henry Burrows Head Mar 32 Coal Miner Lancashire St Helens
Eliz Do Wife 31 Do Do
James Do Son 6 Scholar Do Do
Mary Alice Do Daur 1 Do Skelmersdale
Then in 1891 they have a 20-year-old son William:
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/6598/LANRG12_3043_3046-0222/21951602?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.u k%2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1891%26gss%3dangs-d%26new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26 gsfn%3deli*%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3dbur*o*s%26gsln_x %3d1%26msbpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn __ftp_x%3d1%26mssng%3dh*r*y%26mssng_x%3d1%26MSAV%3 d2%26uidh%3dvm5%26gl%3d%26gst%3d%26hc%3d10%26fh%3d 10%26fsk%3dBEDfMzIIgAAZxgA4-47-2E-61-&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults
36 Marchbank Rd, Skelmersdale, Lancashire
Henry Burrows Head M 45 Coal Miner Lancashire St Helens
Elizabeth Do Wife M 42 Do Do
William Do Son S 20 Drawer in a Coal Mine Do Do
James Do Son S 16 Do Do Do
Mary Alice Do Daur S 11 Scholar Do Skelmersdale
George Do Son 8 Do Do Do
Ellen Do Daur 6 Do Do Do
Hy Do Son 4 Do Do
One of the witnesses at William Henry Eccleston and Ann Grimshaw's marriage was a James Burrows, according to Lancashire Online Parish Clerks website.
So it seems that Elizabeth Eccleston was William's mother.
Hi , yes it's possible that he was born in Dec 1870 , there is only that one entry for a birth in Precot and the mother is unmarried . But was it also possible for a women of 47 to have a baby , I know my sister and I were born in my mums forties .?
kiterunner
09-02-16, 09:01
I also wonder , if the William Ecclestons. Father could be a Dixon as he is living with Granparents in parr 1881 , I'm presuming that this is the same boy the dates would tally .
This is the Dixon family in 1871 and look at the stepson!
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/7619/LANRG10_3864_3866-0542/7716382?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry.co.uk %2fcgi-bin%2fsse.dll%3fdb%3duki1871%26gss%3dsfs28_ms_db%2 6new%3d1%26rank%3d1%26msT%3d1%26MS_AdvCB%3d1%26gsf n%3djohn%26gsfn_x%3d1%26gsln%3ddixon%26gsln_x%3d1% 26msbdy%3d1860%26msbdy_x%3d1%26msbdp%3d2%26msbpn__ ftp_x%3d1%26msrpn__ftp_x%3d1%26msypn__ftp_x%3d1%26 msfng%3dja*s%26msfng_x%3d1%26msmng%3dalic*%26msmng _x%3d1%26gskw%3dlan*%26gskw_x%3d1%26MSAV%3d2%26uid h%3dvm5&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnSearchResults#?imageId=LANRG10_386 4_3866-0541
104 Park Rd, Parr, Lancashire
James Dixon Head Mar 43 Coal Miner Eccleston Do
Alice Do Wife Mar 46 Do Do Do
Henry Burrows Stepson Unm 23 Do Do Do
Mary Dixon Daur Do 20 Do Do
William Do Son Do 18 Do Do Do
James do do 16 Do Do
Alice Dixon Daur 14 Parr Lancashire
John Do Son 11 Do Do
Ellen Do Daur 7 Do Do
Hi , yes James burrows was my uncle or I was led to believe he was when I was a child . So that's is a correct marriage , I haven't seen that marriage thank you for finding it .
kiterunner
09-02-16, 09:02
Hi , yes it's possible that he was born in Dec 1870 , there is only that one entry for a birth in Precot and the mother is unmarried . But was it also possible for a women of 47 to have a baby , I know my sister and I were born in my mums forties .?
Yes, of course it was possible for a woman of 47 to have a baby but if you read through my posts you will see that it looks as though Elizabeth Eccleston was William Henry's mother.
I have t seen that 1891 census , it's great , I think I still have some living relatives in skelmersdale , it would be good finding them . Thank you
kiterunner
09-02-16, 09:04
I should add that we don't know whether Henry Burrows was William's actual father or his stepfather. William is down as the Dixons' grandson on the 1881 census and as Henry's son on the 1891 census, but he doesn't seem to have used the surname Burrows or put Henry down as his father on his marriage certificate.
Do you think that James burrows was Williams father ? Or do you think he just took the child as his .?
kiterunner
09-02-16, 09:08
Do you think that James burrows was Williams father ? Or do you think he just took the child as his .?
If you mean Henry Burrows, see my post above yours - I'm not sure.
kiterunner
09-02-16, 09:13
Ooh, but I've found a baptism on FamilySearch: William Henry Burrowes christened 12 Mar 1871 at St Thomas, Eccleston, son of Henry and Elizabeth. I'll see whether the image is available on ancestry.
kiterunner
09-02-16, 09:18
Yes, here is the image on ancestry (they had mistranscribed the surname as Bennon):
http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/2575/4199657_00879?backurl=http%3a%2f%2fsearch.ancestry .co.uk%2fsearch%2fdb.aspx%3fdbid%3d2575%26path%3d&ssrc=&backlabel=ReturnBrowsing#?imageId=4199657_01329
It shows his date of birth as 16 Dec 1870.
Hi , on the same thread , I am trying to find out what Mary Ecclestons name was before marriage ., was she also from the same area . I have looked on the BMD for the names of the children but it does not state the mothers maiden name . All I can go on his a marriage . But there is two marriages of William Eccleston , one in 1843 to a Mary , the other in 1846 in the st Helens area . Thanks
Hi Kiterunner , do you think my Grandfather was William Henry Burrows and not William Henry Eccleston , the date of birth is right , and I had an uncle named James Burrows , but why has he got the name Eccleston . On the 1881 living with Grandparents , unless he was illegitimate and he has been given the burrows name on the christening in Prescot . Plus there is a birth in prescot of William Eccleston 1870 . The registrar says the mother is unmarried .
That is William Henry Eccleston .
William Henry Burrows was christened in 1871 born in Dec 1870 Henry Burriws and Elizabeth Burrows . I thought they got married in 1873 , oold she have taken Henry's name for the christening ?
Thanks it's all confusing , I am going to log it all down . Then I can get it straight in my mind .
Hi , on the same thread , I am trying to find out what Mary Ecclestons name was before marriage ., was she also from the same area . I have looked on the BMD for the names of the children but it does not state the mothers maiden name . All I can go on his a marriage . But there is two marriages of William Eccleston , one in 1843 to a Mary , the other in 1846 in the st Helens area . Thanks
The 1843 marriage is to Elizabeth Marsh (I looked at Lancs OPC). The 1846 marriage is to Mary Lester:
Marriage: 29 Aug 1846 St Mary the Virgin, Prescot, Lancashire, England
William Eccleston - (X), Full, Collier, Bachelor, Windle
Mary Lester - (X), Full, Spinster, Windle
Groom's Father: Thomas Eccleston, Collier
Bride's Father: George Lester, Collier
Witness: William Nailor, (X); Elizabeth Beetle, (X)
Married by Banns by: L. Parker Snow
Register: Marriages 1845 - 1854, Page 21, Entry 42
Source: LDS Film 1657597
I did check that William and Mary were a couple in 1861 and 1851 before considering this marriage. In 1851 Mary's details were b 1825, at Sutton which matches with this baptism (and the father's details match with the marriage record to William Eccleston):
Baptism: 21 Aug 1825 St Mary (now St Helen), St Helens, Lancashire, England
Mary Leicester - Daughter of George Leicester & Elizabeth
Abode: Sutton
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: T. Pigot
Register: Baptisms 1824 - 1833 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page [32], Entry 251
Source: LDS Film 1469036
It would still be sensible to purchase the birth cert for one of the children to confirm the mmn.
Elizabeth is 14 months old in 1851 so this birth reg may be her:
Births Mar 1850
Eccleston Elizabeth Ann Prescott 20 784
Looks hopeful as that birth reg fits with this bap:
Baptism: 27 Jan 1850 St Mary, St Helens, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Ann Eccleston - Daughter of William Eccleston & Mary
Abode: St. Helens
Occupation: Collier
Notes: [The surname appears to have been overwritten and could be Eccleston or
Edleston. Evidence from the civil register suggests the name should be Eccleston.]
Baptised by: Edward Carr
Register: Baptisms 1846 - 1850 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Entry 2241
Source: LDS Film 1469036
kiterunner
11-02-16, 07:24
Bearkins, William Henry Eccleston was illegitimate because Elizabeth was unmarried when he was born, and that is why he had his mother's surname (Eccleston) but he was baptised as the son of Henry and Elizabeth Burrows when he was 3 months old, although Henry and Elizabeth were not married to each other yet. So it looks likely that Henry was his father, not just his stepfather, but not definite.
Hi , kiterunner , I was wondering if we can trace Henry burrows birth ? Thanks
Henry is aged 3 in 1851.
This looks like the marriage of his mother to James Dixon:
Marriage: 15 Sep 1850 St Thomas, Eccleston, Lancashire, England
James Dixon - (X), 23, Miner, Bachelor, Eccleston
Alice Burrows - (X), 26, Spinster, Eccleston
Groom's Father: John Wills, Watchmaker
Bride's Father: William Burrows, Miner
Witness: John Burrows; Ellen Makin, (X)
Married by Banns by: G. Thornton Mostyn Incumbent
Register: Marriages 1841 - 1858, Page 76, Entry 152
Source: LDS Film 1849656
So it looks like Henry was illegitimate. This is the best fit birth registration, though there are others if his age was a little inaccurate:
BURROWS, HENRY
mmn -
GRO Reference: 1847 J Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 20 Page 880
Sorry, I muscled in as Kate wasn't online, but she is now :o
kiterunner
07-09-19, 14:48
Thanks, Merry!
Yes , I agree , I have found a few births , of a Henry around 1848 1849 . Going by the age on the census . One was in Warrington and the other Prescot . I have looked on Lancashire bmd , but some of the entry's have no mmn to confirm .so it's difficult .
Yes I agree it could be the right birth . I could get the certificate .
I have looked on Lancashire bmd , but some of the entry's have no mmn to confirm .so it's difficult .
In some instances it can be more helpful to use the GRO index here:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/
As a rule mmn is listed unless the birth is illegitimate.
hi ,I know these posts are a while ago , but i'm trying to follow the children of Henry and elizabeth burrows :- Henry , George ,Mary alice and ellen Burrows . can anyone help me to trace perhaps their marriages etc , did the boys survive the war ? thanks
It would have been helpful if you had posted their birth registrations and where you have them up to so far, to save people a lot of time. Also the maiden name of their mother and anything else you already know that is relevent to the search.
Having spent a while reading back, this is the information that is needed to search:
Henry Burrows married Elizabeth Eccleston in 1873 in Prescot.
Their children:
You don't mention William, so presumably you already have what you need about him.
Next are:
BURROWS, JAMES ECCLESTON
GRO Reference: 1875 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 666
(but you don't mention James, so are you finished with him?)
BURROWS, MARY ALICE ECCLESTON
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 828
BURROWS, GEORGE ECCLESTON
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 884
BURROWS, ELLEN ECCLESTON
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 878
BURROWS, HENRY ECCLESTON
GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 824
For the 1911 census Elizabeth Burrows stated she has been married 38 years and has seven children, six of whom were still living at that date. We don't know if she included William (she shouldn't have, as he was born before the marriage) but most likely she did include him, so we are missing one child (minimum).
I've just looked through the birth registration indexes, but can't find any further children.
Unfortunately getting this far has taken all the free minutes I had available, so will come back later and see what's happening!
Please would you post up which censuses you have the various children on. Have you found any of their marriages or deaths from FreeBMD or Lancs OPC etc?
In 1901 the family have a daughter, Alice Burrows, aged 5 months. This child is actually a granddaughter, but maybe they considered her their child because she was illegitimate. She died just after the 1901 census. Whether she is one of the supposed seven children of Elizabeth can probably be established by working out whether any of the other children had died by 1911. If none of them had, then she is possibly the "one dec'd" child and also one of the seven born. If one of the other children had died then she is presumably not included in those stats.
BURROWS, ALICE BRIERS mmn -
GRO Reference: 1900 D Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 754
Deaths Sep 1901
Burrows Alice Briers 0 Prescot 8b 573
Briers is the surname of the family living next door in 1901.
Ah, I've found the missing dec'd child of Henry and Elizabeth now. Turns out they had two daughters names Mary Alice. This is the first:
BURROWS, MARY ALICE ECCLESTON
GRO Reference: 1877 J Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 804
BURROWS, MARY ALICE 1
GRO Reference: 1878 S Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 596
Mary Alice Burrows was still with her parents in 1901.
I don't think she is the Mary Alice Burrows who married William Evans in 1905, as that Mary matches one born in Warrington, also in 1879.
In 1911 there's a female single M A Burrows aged 30, lunatic, in Rainhill County Asylum in St Helens. Says she was born in Ormskirk, so may or may not be your Mary Alice.
There's also this death:
BURROWS, MARY ALICE 77
GRO Reference: 1955 J Quarter in ST. HELENS Volume 10F Page 403
But you definitely cannot say either of these entries are your relative without further investigation. There are several Mary Alice Burrows and a lot of Mary A (most of these are probably Mary Ann) who these entries may belong to (married and unmarried in 1911 and 1939) and the one in the Asylum may not even be a Mary.
Ellen may have married James Cardwell in 1908. This couple are together in 1911 and she is the right age and birthplace.
This could also be her:
Deaths Ellen Cardwell abt 1885 Jan 1937 Jan-Feb-Mar St Helens Lancashire
There is a James Cardwell of the right age still in St Helens in 1939. He is married to Mary.
This could be the same couple:
BAXTER Mary CARDWELL James 1938 St. Helens Register Office or Registrar Attended St Helens RM/7/111
But again, though these entries fit - I cannot be certain they are for your Ellen etc.
hi ,Thanks for all your hard work you are a treasure ! so kind of you to help . ??
hi , Merry when you have got time , i have found a family tree on Wiki belonging to the eccleston Clan . But am stuck on the birth of a john Ecklestone (eccleston ) , Born around 1764 don't know where could be lancashire could be cheshire but he married a mary lasetter in winick in around 1887 . i think is father was either John or Isacc eccleston . the name lasetter , looks like it could be lester or leicester , I found a birth in burtonwood which i think belongs to the couple they had around seven children , one of which is my great great great grandfather Thomas . the family tree is good but it doesn't go back from John on this side . so if you have any time and you can help i would be most grateful . thanks
So, from post #105 on the "Help Required" thread, Kate said:
Thomas Eccleston born 31 Dec 1798 and baptised 20 Jan 1799 at Prescot, St Helens, son of John Eccleston, collier, of Parr.
And in the following couple of posts we worked out that this Thomas probably had a first cousin, Margaret Knowles nee Eccleston (b 1803), who may have been the witness at Thomas's wedding in 1822.
The two father's of Thomas and Margaret are likely to be (from an Ancestry tree, so I don't know if you have found more evidence about these two):
ISAAC ECCLESTONE
1767–1837
Birth ABT 1767 • Ashton in Makerfield
Death 22 OCT 1837 • St Helens, Lancashire
and:
John Ecclestone
1764–1837
Birth ABT 1764 • Winwick
Death 9 FEB 1837 • St Helens, Lancashire, England
And, also from an ancestry tree, the parents of the above brothers:
ISAAC ECCLESTONE
1743–1793
Birth ABT 1743 • Newton le Willows
Death MAY 1793 • St Helens, Lancashire
ANN NAYLOR
1743–1778
Birth 23 NOV 1743 • Winwick
Death 17 APR 1778
I'm guessing you are 100 years adrift with the marriage date you mention and when you say there is a birth in Burtonwood for this couple, I don't know what you mean.
EDIT here's the marriage I think you referred to:
Marriage: 11 Feb 1787 St Oswald, Winwick, Lancashire, England
John Eckelstone - (X), this Parish
Mary Lacetter - (X), this Parish
Witness: Robert Cross; Michael Ridyard
Banns Read: 14 Jan 1787, 2nd: 21 Jan 1787, 3rd: 28 Jan 1787
Married by Banns by: B Banner Curate
Register: Marriages 1766 - 1812, Page 399, Entry 4
Source: LDS Film 1885708
Still don't understand about Burtonwood???
So, again, I have used up all my time untangling parts of your request and not answering any of it!! It would be helpful if you could copy and paste the entries you find because that saves making mistakes in typing and also means we get all the info and not just bits of it.
What do you mean by "the family tree is good"?
So, are you just looking for the children of this couple?
Marriage: 4 Apr 1763 St Oswald, Winwick, Lancashire, England
Isaac Eccleston - (X), this Parish
Ann Naylor - (X), this Parish
Witness: Robert Glave; Bettey Bordman
Banns Read: 20 Mar 1763, 2nd: 27 Mar 1763, 3rd: 3 Apr 1763
Married by Banns by: John Lowe Curate
Register: Marriages 1754 - 1765, Page 139, Entry 453
Source: LDS Film 1885708
There are three children on Lancs OPC:
Baptism: 15 Jun 1766 St Oswald, Winwick, Lancashire, England
William Eckelson - son of Isack Eckelson
Born: 27 May
Abode: Newton
Register: Baptisms 1756 - 1776, Page 13, Entry 34
Source: LDS Film 1655876
Baptism: 6 Nov 1768 St Peter, Newton-le-Willows, Lancashire, England
Isaac Eccleston - the son of Isaac Eccleston & An
Born: 13 Oct
Register: Baptisms 1735 - 1769, Page 34, Entry 8
Source: LDS Film 1885719
Baptism: 24 Mar 1771 St Michael, Burtonwood, Lancashire, England
Peggy Eccleston - Daughter of Isaac Eccleston & Ann
Abode: Newton
Register: Baptisms 1668 - 1812, Entry 1490
Source: Private Transcription
but no John.
No baptism for John on Ancestry or FMP either.
There are 117 trees on Ancestry including this John, most of them saying he was born either in Winwick or Ashton in Makerfield. I didn't look at all the trees, but the few I did had no evidence to support this, or to support that his parents were Isaac and Ann. There is, of course, that tantalising gap between the marriage of Isaac and Ann and William's baptism!
thanks once a again you are a star Xx
You said of John Eccleston and Mary Lacetter ....
they had around seven children , one of which is my great great great grandfather Thomas .
.....but you failed to mention the eldest son, bap 4 Apr 1790 at St Helens, was named Isaac.
garstonite
03-03-20, 07:17
this is just to show you that William and Mary waited up to 7 years to baptise children - and Ann in the census was actually baptised Hannah
Baptism: 21 Feb 1869 St Thomas, Eccleston, Lancashire, England
Beatrice Eccleston - [Child] of William Eccleston & Mary
Born: 20 Aug 1862
Abode: Eccleston
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: John A. Fidler
..........................
Baptism: 21 Feb 1869 St Thomas, Eccleston, Lancashire, England
Hannah Eccleston - [Child] of William Eccleston & Mary
Born: 31 Aug 1864
Abode: Eccleston
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: John A. Fidler
garstonite
03-03-20, 07:21
could this be the c1767 Isaac ?
Baptism: 6 Nov 1768 St Peter, Newton-le-Willows, Lancashire, England
Isaac Eccleston - the son of Isaac Eccleston & An
Born: 13 Oct 1768
could this be the c1767 Isaac ?
Baptism: 6 Nov 1768 St Peter, Newton-le-Willows, Lancashire, England
Isaac Eccleston - the son of Isaac Eccleston & An
Born: 13 Oct 1768
Yes, I think so - see post #45. It's a brother John we need!
Hi , We are trying to find a birth of Isacc eccleston born approx 1843 . There is a birth that could fit , of a isacc born in freckleton Preston . but that isacc was from a Quaker family Who were quite Wealthy . were a lot of our ecclestons are miners and can't write . So the tree owner of the clan says she don't think that the Isacc can be the right one . Any ideas , i've searched on family but to no avail . the library services are limited at the moment so can't search on ancestry . any help would be greatly received . Hope you are all well and keeping safe
The mother and father in the Freckleton birth is rebecca weaver and William Eccleston .
You haven't said where he was supposed to be born or anything else about him!
Have you got him on a census? Did he marry and if so when and where? Do you know when he died or anything about any of his children? Anything else?
Also, what records have you dismissed because they belong to the Wm and Rebecca Eccleston family?
I've just looked for the William Eccleston and Rebecca Weaver family to try and work out which Isaac I needed to avoid, and discovered their son was born in 1743 not 1843. So, I definitely need to know a bit more about who you are looking for!!
Isaac is known of primarily through the christening records of his children. He was a labourer. He married Ann Naylor April 4th 1763 at St Oswald's, Winwick (Anglican). They had six children between 1764 and 1778. The second was christened at St Oswald's, and the christening record tells us they were living at Newton in Makerfield. The third was christened in 1768 at St Peter's in Newton in Makerfield. The fourth (in 1771) was christened at St Michael's in Burtonwood, but the family was still living in Newton in Makerfield. The fifth child (in 1775) was christened at St Helens Chapel, so probably the family had moved to St Helens between 1771 and 1775.
sorry should have put this first I was in a hurry this morning someone has added rebecca weaver and william as isacc s parent from Freckleton on the wiki tree site . but the original owner of the clan eccleston says she dos not think they are the parents as they were quakers and quite wealthy . she said they could write . so she is dubious about these being the parents of a lowly miner who marked his name with an X i did understood her logic .
Isaac is highly unlikely to be the son of William Eccleston and Rebecca (Weaver) Eccleston, who was born in Freckleton in 1743. The latter was from a middle-class Quaker family, and was a successful businessman based in Antigua in the early 1780s[1] whereas the subject of this profile was unable to sign his own name in his marriage record, and had sons who held working-class jobs - collier, labourer, engineer; and he was described in his wife's burial record and son Thomas' christening record as a labourer.
The merchant Isaac may have had a wife Sarah and a daughter Sarah - there was a memorial in the church of St John's erected in 1792 to a Sarah Kelsick, wife of John Kelsick, a merchant in Antigua, who died March 20th 1785 in the 19th year of her age; and she was the only daughter of Isaac and Sarah Eccleston.[2]
there is a isacc eccleston born 1743 to a william and and rebekah eccleston born Hartshaw , but i think it should be hardshaw a part of st. helens
kiterunner
30-10-20, 11:58
There were a lot of variations in spelling of place names in those days.
Do you have burial records for Isaac or Ann?
Ann died in 1778 and was buried 17 Apr 1778 at St Helens Chapel (Anglican), probably as the result of giving birth to their sixth and last child Thomas, who had been buried 4 days earlier. No christening record has been found for Thomas.
Isaac himself was buried May 20th 1793 at St Helens Chapel (Anglican). No age was specified in the record.
Thanks. Where did you find those burial records?
they are on the wiki tree page for the eccleston Clan .
And so you know where they got them from?
Is this it? No source for the burial:
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Eccleston-181
Ok. so there's a source on Ann's page but not on Isaac's, but no doubt they should be the same.
Burial probably buried 20 May 1793, St Helens (of Parr) - adult as no parent listed, but no age given. this is what it states of isacc Eccleston
Yes, I posted the link to the page in post #66.
hi ,yesthe wiki tree source is correct, just trying to find where isacc was born ,
I see she says she transcribed the burial record for Ann (and presumably the one for Isaac too) from the Lancashire Parish Register Society Microfiche. Did you realise those records are already transcriptions, not images of the PRs, according to the society webpage? Of course it is most likely correct that there is no further information recorded in the original record, but I have had instances in my own tree where years (decades?!) after accepting a typed transcription from a PR society as correct, I have been able to get access to an image of the PR only to find the transcription was incorrect or incomplete! It hasn't happened often, but it has happened.
In any case, it's unlikely Isaac's baptism is anywhere easy online as if it was you would have it by now.
Are you able to contact the person who recorded those burials to find out if they looked for Isaac's baptism anywhere not online? It would be helpful to know where it isn't! Also to check whether they have looked at any other records not available online apart from PRs and if so, what?
Hi , i will ask corinne ,she lives in the U.S.A . She will be able to say what she has discovered . The only isacc s births i've come up with on FS . Is the one in freckleton , and one in Hardshaw . St helens .
kiterunner
01-11-20, 12:09
I think those are both the same person, aren't they?
I thought i had done a screenshot of each birth but can't find them .one birth was freckleton preston .and the other Hardshaw st. helens .
Yes, and they are both the same date and the same parents.
kiterunner
01-11-20, 16:27
Well, some transcriptions show a different month, but that will be because the transcriber has misunderstood the old Quaker dates.
True, but the entry with the wrong month doesn't say Freckleton or Hardshaw (at least not on my search results!).
Do you Think that it could be isacc s ? , as our our tree owner doesn't think that the freckleton birth Is correct anyway because they are qwackers .and land owners in Antigua , and the eccleston clan are lowly colliers . I won't be able to go to lancashire archives now to check the microfiche ,because of lockdown .
No, I don't.
I googled Eccleston Antigua. The Quaker Isaac born in 1743 had a wife called Sarah who he was married to by about 1765. They had a daughter called Sarah who died soon after her marriage to John Kelsick, merchant of Antigua, in 1785 aged 19. Sarah senior was still living when her daughter died and the inference from the grave inscription is that they were all living in Antigua at that time.
The details of the inscription on Sarah junior's gravestone are here:
https://www.gutenberg.org/files/38788/38788-h/38788-h.htm
There's also lots of information that ties merchant Isaac with his brother Daniel who wrote to Isaac in Antigua in the 1770s and 1780s - a time when the other Isaac with a different wife was bringing up his children in Lancashire.
EDIT: Also.....
Here's a transcript of Isaac's will, written in Antigua:
Isaac Eccleston. Will dated 27 Oct. 1792. To my
Ex'ors 5 guineas each. All my estate to my wife Sarah,
whom with John Burke, Henry Dixon, W"" Entwisle of this
Island, John Dickson of Whitehaven, & Sam' Bradford of
Lancaster I appoint Ex'ors. Witnessed by Langford Lovell
Hodge, Peter B. Patterson. Before Edward Byam, Esq.,
was sworn L. L. Hodge, planter, 19 Oct. 1795. Recorded
20 Oct. 1795.
And a transcript of part of the will of his brother-in-law, Thomas Martin (Isaac's wife being Sarah Martin)
Thomas Martin of Queen Street, Golden Square, London.
Will dated 10 June 1789. A marble monument to be
erected to my wife Jane & sent to Jamaica in the parish
church of Kingston. To my mother Sarah Martin, now of
Antigua, £100 a year, also £50 c. for mourning. To my sister
Sarah Eccleston of Antigua £500 & my wife's gold repeat-
ing watch. To Isaac Eccleston, merch', husband of Sarah,
£50 for a ring.
Did you ever find anything concrete to tie your John Eccleston who died in 1837 to the Isaac we are looking for now?
what a interesting account ,but it looks like that isacc isn't ours . yes john Ekelstone does belong on our tree .I will have to see where he is on wiki tree . .thanks
I meant how do you know who John Eccleston's parents are?
hi ,have tried to find John ecclestone s birth in winwick ,but the only one i can find is william .
How sure are you that his parents are Isaac and Ann?
Margaret "Peggy" Eccleston
Born 1771 in Newton in Makerfield, Lancashire, Englandmap
Daughter of Isaac Eccleston and Ann (Naylor) Eccleston
Sister of John Eccleston, William Eccleston, Isaac Eccleston, Roger Eccleston and Thomas Eccleston
[spouse(s) unknown]
[children unknown]
Died [date unknown] [location unknown] all have to go off is the wiki pages , i found williams birth but not johns
i can only look on family search and local archives . as i'm not a member of ancestry .
Hi i am trying to follow beatrice eccleston forwards ,child of william and mary eccleston age Nine on post 3 . I found her on two censuses 1871 , she was in dewhurst st cheetham were she was a engraver , with her sister Mary . Then 1891 , don't know if this is her or not a beatrice eccleston age 26 in 1891 with Mary 68 , Garment worker in Salford . Mary eccleston Married william hill . but i have tried to find a marriage for beatrice . there is one in Prescot register office to a Herbert woosey in 1912 . but don't know how old this couple are .it may not be the right beatrice . have you any ideas . family search isn't the best when looking as it keeps coming up with american lists when i put in english searches , so it's hopeless at the moment . thanks
ElizabethHerts
28-02-21, 07:45
Why not try using Lancashire OPC for your ancestors based in Lancashire? Far better than relying solely on Family Search. It's free.
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html
Then if you are still stuck, someone can take a look.
ElizabethHerts
28-02-21, 07:55
There is a likely marriage on LancsOPC - see if you can find it!
hi ,thanks elizabeth , i eventually found her on the 1911 census . in manchester . but they didn't have children ,so the trail ends there . yes i use bmd a lot , it's a great resource . thanks
Olde Crone
28-02-21, 10:15
They did have one child, Beatrice, born 1893 died 1894. I know that leads nowhere, but I always record these poor mites anyway, as they were part of the family even if it was only a very short time.
OC
thanks for that ,what a shame .
Hi , I am in a bit of a quandary , trying to work out who is what on the tree I have found . Please note 34 Henry Burrows Children . I wanted to follow James burrows son on Henry Burrows . He married a sarah moss in skelmersdale approx 1897. they had two children , one of whom was Edward Burrows born 1897 , i looked to see him with parents in 1901 but instead found him in bickerstaffe with a Ellen rothwell , it says grandson . he is still in bickerstaffe on the 1911 census with the rothwell family . I presumed that ellen was his mother's mother . .I tried to find either james and sarah together or separately but couldn't find them on these censuses . Where are they leaving their child ? James is my uncle , and he was alive when i was small ,so he hadn't died . It's a mystery . can anyone solve this . I also thought that Henry Rothwell had married ellen. but tried to find a marriage for them. but couldn't find that . Thanks
kiterunner
01-03-21, 13:02
I will have a look, but bear in mind the census was only supposed to show where each person was on one particular night. It doesn't always show where their permanent residence was. So if Edward happened to be staying over at his grandparents' house for that one night, he would be listed there.
kiterunner
01-03-21, 13:09
To start with, Lancashire BMD has James Burrows marrying Sarah Moss 1897 at St Paul, Skelmersdale.
Lancashire OPC has the exact marriage date - 4 Jun 1897. James 21, son of Henry, Sarah 18, daughter of Richard Moss. Witnesses Robert Latham and Elizabeth Moss.
This is an example of how much information you can get from Lancashire OPC, compared to Lancashire BMD.
Then Lancashire BMD has Edward's birth 1897 and Mary Alice 1899, both in Lathom sub-district. Lancashire OPC has Edward's baptism - 31 Oct 1897 and Mary Alice's baptism - 22 Aug 1899, both at St Paul, Skelmersdale, abode Skelmersdale, father a miner / collier.
kiterunner
01-03-21, 13:12
You probably have this already, but Mary Alice died in 1899.
kiterunner
01-03-21, 13:17
For reference, this is the 1901 census:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7814/images/LANRG13_3543_3546-0725?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=dNx84026&_phstart=successSource&pId=22038865
92 Liverpool Rd, Skelmersdale
Henry Rothwell Head M 60 Horse Driver Lancs Bickerstaffe
Ellen Do Wife M 45 Do Do
George Do Son S 18 Do Do
Edward Burrows Grandson 4 Do Skelmersdale
Joseph Rothwell Brother Widower 63 Farm Labourer Do Bickerstaffe.
kiterunner
01-03-21, 13:20
Henry Rothwell married Ellen Moss 1883 at Holy Trinity, Bickerstaffe.
thank you so much your a star once again . ??
I don't know what's is going on the question marks were a smiley emoji , my keyboard always does that lol ,but once again thanks
kiterunner
01-03-21, 14:23
Is this James on the 1901 census?
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7814/images/LANRG13_3523_3525-0687?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=30948c6c34b2377bbf11bc4127117384&pId=21904367
27 Wood Street, St Helens
Henry Burrows Head M 53 Coal Hewer Underground Lancs St Helens
Elizabeth Do Wife M 51 Do
James Do Son M 26 Coal Hewer Underground Do
Mary A Do Daur S 21 Lanc Skelmersdale
George Do Son S 18 Coal Drawer Underground Do
Henry Burrows Son S 14 Lanc Skelmersdale
Alice Do Daur 5 mths Lanc St Helens.
kiterunner
01-03-21, 14:29
And this could be Sarah in 1901:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7814/images/LANRG13_3555_3557-0009?backlabel=ReturnSearchResults&queryId=f56cbce1c265cbc6cc7c5559ed6bbb49&pId=22094695
98 Chapel Lane, Wigan
John Jackson Head M 29 Licensed Victualler Lancs Wigan
Alice Ann Do Wife M 24 Do Do
Cyril George Do Son 1 Do Ince
Evelina Sarah Do Daur 5 days Do Wigan
John Atkins Serv S 26 Bar Man Do Warrington
Sarah Burrows Do M 24 Housemaid Do Bickerstaffe.
Maybe James and Sarah had split up?
hi , yes i think that's them , Henry burrows his father, elizabeth mother . i think you are right about them splitting up , maybe that's why edward appears at his grannies at bickerstaffe . on three censuses . as he is there in 1911 .Ive looked for a marriage for edward , but there's a few possibilities there are three from 1917 to 1929 , which are areas not too far away like prescot , liverpool and chorley . But obviously he could have travelled .Have you any ideas ? Thanks
Hi , I'm having no luck finding James burrows or sarah burrows on the 1911 census . i've looked on family search a few times with no luck .Im afraid it's not very good . They are there somewhere . But elusive i've tried searching for any person on each search but nothing . Any ideas ? thanks
I wanted to follow James burrows son on Henry Burrows . James is my uncle , and he was alive when i was small ,so he hadn't died . It's a mystery . can anyone solve this .
If he was alive when you were young he should be on the 1939 Register. Do you know whereabouts he was living?
There are several in Lancs born around the right time. This looks like his baptism (Lancs OPC) and in 1881 he was recorded as aged 6 on the census:
Baptism: 19 Dec 1876 St Paul, Skelmersdale, Lancashire, England
James Burrowes - [Child] of Henry Burrowes & Elizabeth
Abode: Skelmersdale
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: Lister Smith
Register: Baptisms 1868 - 1892, Page 116, Entry 922
Source: LDS Film 1657566
Post #6 on ths thread tells me his mmn was Eccleston, so:
BURROWS, JAMES mmn ECCLESTON
GRO Reference: 1875 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 666
...he was born either the end of 1874 or the start of 1875. Of course we don't know if he gave the correct dob in 1939, but if you know where he may have been living, then we may be able to track him down and maybe that will help with the 1911 census.
I did wonder about this burial...
James Burrows
BIRTH 1875
DEATH 14 Feb 1955 (aged 79–80)
BURIAL
Gidlow Cemetery
Standish, Metropolitan Borough of Wigan, Greater Manchester, England
PLOT C of E, 14-900
MEMORIAL ID 216715273 · View Source
Gravesite Details Age: 80, Place of Death: 6 Barton Fold, Pemberton, Notes: Retired Miner, Death date listed may be the interment date.
In 1939 there's a James Burrows dob 24 Nov 1874, living by himself at 146 Laithwaite Road, Wigan. At the same address, but listed as a separate household is widow Alice Aspey b 1875. The entry for James says he is single, but if he had a short and unsuccessful marriage, he may have thought of himself as single.
Obviously, I don't know this is the right man, but I've posted these details in case they trigger a memory for you, or there is something you recognise means it can't be the right person!
hi merry thanks for helping , i do know he lived in pemberton , i know laithwaite ,but it doesn't ring a bell . but it's not to say it isn't him . but the death could be right .
kiterunner
02-03-21, 11:24
It's Laithwaite Road, Wigan, not Laithwaite itself.
Hi , Please note post 3 , George eccleston Born 1852 st. helens , he seemed to disappear later on and we couldn't trace him . I have found out that He enlisted in the army and was in the oxfordshire light regiment as a sargeant in Bengal India. where he married and had a family . He married a eliza pearce . I have been in contact with 3rd cousins in australia , they have kindly sent me lots of photos and lots of info of george and family in India . where he died . so thanks to you all for your great help it's a nice end to that part of the story .
hi ,is there any way i can find out who edward burrows married , he was born to james and sarah 1897 skelmersdale . i can't find anything on family search . on Lancs Bmd there are a few within 10 years upwards . any ideas ?
kiterunner
17-03-21, 09:06
If you know his exact date of birth, you could look on the 1939 Register to see who he is with.
there are quite a few and not around the omskirk skelmersdale area i suppose he could have settled anywhere .
ived tried to access find my past , but it won't let me log in , so can't look at the 1939'register ,as i'm not on ancestry .
kiterunner
18-03-21, 10:17
Do you know his exact date of birth?
From memory he was registered in Q4 1897 and was bap in October 1897 (don't remember date!), so he should have been born between mid-August and whenever the bap was. I looked on Ancestry 1839 Reg and the only one was in London, spouse Florence (??), but I don't know if I eliminated him or couldn't because I didn't find enough other info (marriage, death etc) to do anything with it. Sorry, off out now!
all i know he was christened 31st oct 1897 skelmersdale if that's any help
Hi ,Merry ,hope your well , i have been having a look at a family tree , including The burrows . and have found that Henry Burrows born 1887 Post 34 married a Maria Adams in Preston in 1908.I believe they had two children , as i can see .Henry in 1909 ,and lilian in 1913 . How do i find these people going forwards . Iknowwe cant post names of people who are still living but i think it's highly unlikely they will still be living . There are lots of Henrys and lilian's marriages . so it can be a minefield . any hints are to go forwards as you always have the answers ? lol
How sure are you that the Henry Burrows who married Maria Adams is the same Henry born 1887 to Henry Burrows and Elizabeth Eccleston?
He looks more likely to be the son of Barton Burrow(s) and Margaret nee Kelly to me. However, if you have seen his marriage cert and that says father Henry I might be persuaded otherwise!
hi. Yes it could be wrong. it on a family tree on Family search .org with my ancestors ,I presume they have checked all of the tree but i will have another look . they had the marriage date of maria and henry . and there sons birth .
I have just had a look at the 1901 census , for henry . It hasn't got the parents on the census . Henry age 14 and alice 0 . they are in St. helens .
The marriage is on family search , and it isn't the original ,so i can't see ages father etc . so it's difficult . The lady who has put them on the tree may not have double checked everything .
I can't find a birth of henry born 1885 at skelmersdale or ormskirk .
on free BMD .it comes up with just henry burrows born Preston 1885 .
I can't find a birth of henry born 1885 at skelmersdale or ormskirk .
That's in post #34 isn't it? Well, not 1885 as that's not when yours was born!
I have just had a look at the 1901 census , for henry . It hasn't got the parents on the census . Henry age 14 and alice 0 . they are in St. helens .
The parents are there with Henry and Alice. The other children are James 26, Mary A 21 and George 18.
no one else showed on my census but i always have problems with family search . yes henry was bor around 1887 . i've message the person who has put the post on the burrows yo see how she came to the conclusion about maria and henry .
If you search for Alice or Henry the census result shows them to be daughter and son of some apparently unlisted person. The result also shows you:
Event place: Wood Street
Page Number: 22
Piece/Folio: 164
Schedule Type: 117
In this case you know who the parents are, so if you search for them the additional details for Henry and Elizabeth and the older children are:
Event place: Wood Street
Page Number: 21
Piece/Folio: 164
Schedule Type: 117
So, the street address, the folio number and the schedule number all match, so the household is the same one, but the last two in the household are on the following page.
hi , I'm stuck at the moment as there's a fault in messages on family search , i can't receive them It is been like this for the past week so i can't get in touch with the tree transcriber at the moment . as it would have probably cleared up the confusion with Henry burrows as i think it is showing on elizabeth and henrys family , that henry was born in Preston .
Yes, the Henry who married Maria Adams was born in Preston according to the 1911 census. That's why I asked you if you were sure that was your Henry.
The Henry born in Preston is most likely to be the son of Barton Burrow(s) and Margaret nee Kelly. The marriage cert for this Henry and Maria Adams would probably confirm this. I think this is the birth reg for the Preston Henry:
BURROW, HENRY KELLY
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 590
What you need to be doing is looking on Family Search 1911 census for your Henry born in 1887 in Skelmersdale. I have just looked to see if the match I found on Ancestry is easy to find on FS. I will make it easier for you by confirming that his age is spot on at 24 and his birth place is spelled correctly - this is information I didn't need to find him on FS, so that should give you a head start!
hi ,I've only found a henry Borrows , on 1911 census married toeizabeth born in skelmersdale age 24 on the census . obviously the name is misspelled if that's him as the name burrows isquiteacommon Name ill check marriages now .
Hi , Found a marriage that would fit 1908 Elizabeth E Griffiths , and henry burrows Parr and maria adams and henry burrows same year , but married in preston. Most likely the henry at parr is our Henry . what do you think ?
Yep, that's what I was hoping you would find.
Unfortunately the Parr marriages on Lancs OPC etc only go up to 1906!
One thing you could do that I haven't done enough of is to double check there isn't another birth reg for a Henry Burrows/Borrows/Burrowes etc etc in Ormskirk district or another Henry turning up on the 1891 or 1901 census that could potentially be the person who married Elizabeth Griffiths. This is assuming you are not going to purchase the 1908 Burrows/Grifffiths marriage certificate, which is, of course, what you should be doing!
I have triedtoxhckforother children on lancashire B.M.D but they don't give a lot of mothers maiden names so it's difficult to see the ones who are born in st. helens , that's iftheyhqd more children ?
I checked for a birth of henry yesterday in ormskirk and skelmersdale on parish clerk but could not find him, unless he was baptised somewhere else .
there is also a henry Burrows , born windle in 1887 with parents mary and henry . which is not our henry .and windle is part of st. helens . so that could be the henry we have found .married to elizabeth griffith .
hi sorry , henry is living with is mum and dad in windle ,so he can't be the one married to elizabeth , as there's no mention. of her on census . but it shows the name is common .
You need to be looking for variable spelling birth registrations in Ormskirk district on the GRO site (to include mmn). Then work out who the parents are in each case (assuming there is more than one) and eliminate them one by one. If the only one you have left is your Henry then that is promising.
garstonite
07-05-21, 10:18
sorry for this - just curious - Merry - what was a minder ??
Baptism: 1 Apr 1885 St Thomas, Preston, Lancashire, England
Henry Burrows - [Child] of Barton Burrows & Margaret
Abode: 62 Upper Kent St.
Occupation: Minder
Baptised by: James P. Shepperd Vicar
.................................................. .......................
On the 1881 and 1891 census Barton was a spinner. A minder is someone who watched and minded the 'Self Acting Mule' - the name of a multi thread spinning machine.
i found Henrys birth his birth was registered in Lathom 1887 , i know at home well it's about 3 miles out side of ormskirk so that coukd be in .
garstonite
07-05-21, 19:46
Thanks Merry ....xx
i found Henrys birth his birth was registered in Lathom 1887 , i know at home well it's about 3 miles out side of ormskirk so that coukd be in .
That's in post #34.
I saw a henry burrows reg ormskirk ,on the post 34 but not henry burrows registered in lathom which is a different chapelry ,which includes burscough ,newburgh. Like i said i looked through the parish clerks for ormskirk and skelmersdale,but he wasn't on those . Do you think this is our henry Burrows ? I will,try and change the family tree online as it also has henry being born in preston in 1885 , as one of elizabeth and henry children . i know i haven't put that on ,so it's incorrect
I saw a henry burrows reg ormskirk ,on the post 34 but not henry burrows registered in lathom which is a different chapelry ,which includes burscough ,newburgh.
They are all the same registration!
This one:
BURROWS, HENRY ECCLESTON
GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in ORMSKIRK Volume 08B Page 824
is the GRO registration index entry from their own site. 'Ormskirk' refers to the Registration District where the birth was registered. The Volume and Page numbers record where the certificate copy is held within the GRO records. The Registration District of Ormskirk was divided into 12 Sub-Districts which includes the Sub-District of Lathom. Here's more detailed information regarding Ormskirk Distict:
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/ormskirk.html
On Lancs BMD you are looking at the index entry for the local register office not the GRO. Here's what you looked at:
Surname....Forename(s)....Mother's Maiden Name....Year....Sub-District....Registers At....Reference
BURROWS..Henry..............ECCLESTON............. .....1887...Lathom...........Preston.......LAT/25/94
So, it says Sub-District of Lathom and that the register books are now stored at Preston Register Office. The reference details record where the certificate copy is held within the local register office records.
Like i said i looked through the parish clerks for ormskirk and skelmersdale,but he wasn't on those . Do you think this is our henry Burrows ?
I agree that there isn't a baptism showing for him on Lancs OPC.
Yes, I do think the registration records above are the right person as the mmn is correct and the date and place fit with the census records.
I will,try and change the family tree online as it also has henry being born in preston in 1885 , as one of elizabeth and henry children . i know i haven't put that on ,so it's incorrect
I don't understand this part. The first bit sounds like you are changing someone elses tree and the second part sounds like your own tree has had incorrect info added to it by someone else.
thanks for the info , with regards to henry , your right as usual lol . I can't change someone's tree but i will message the person who are saying that our henry married married maria adams . as we know he didn't .But on our tree it shows henry having been born in Preston which is incorrect So i will try and alter that . Air someone sees it they will come to the wrong conclusions
thanks for the info , with regards to henry , your right as usual lol . I can't change someone's tree but i will message the person who are saying that our henry married married maria adams . as we know he didn't .But on our tree it shows henry having been born in Preston which is incorrect So i will try and alter that . Air someone sees it they will come to the wrong conclusions
When you message the other tree owner show them this:
BURROW, HENRY mmn KELLY
GRO Reference: 1885 J Quarter in PRESTON Volume 08E Page 590
as they perhaps haven't seen that reg as the surname is spelled differently.
Barton Burrow and Margaret Kelly married 8 Apr 1882 at St Mark's Preston.
I have sent the message to the owner of the tree she's replied but I can't access my messages ,i've had a problem for the past two weeks ,it keeps coming up with an error ,so will have leave it for now . and concentrate on Henrys wife . the one i found coukd be his . and like you said i may have to get the marriage certificate to prove one way or another . as we cannot see the original .
and concentrate on Henrys wife . the one i found coukd be his . and like you said i may have to get the marriage certificate to prove one way or another . as we cannot see the original .
If, when you say, "Henry's wife" you mean Elizabeth Ellen Griffiths; I think you would definitely need the marriage cert to have any chance of working out who she is! There are quite a few to choose from registered in the correct district, but none who have the 1911 place of birth recorded for 1891 or 1901. I did have a quick look at the 1939 Register, but couldn't positively identify her, nor a death or remarriage.
Having said that, here's something for you to spend ages on!
1939 Register has
Sidney Burrows b 6 June 1911 (ie son of Henry and EE Burrows, dob one year off when compared with his death reg - 1910 woud fit with his birth reg/1911 census)
Rita Burrows b 8 May 1917 (Sidney's sister - expect you have seen her birth reg)
And then there's this other lady:
Sidna Griffiths b 24 Dec 1861 (widow)
As she is listed above Sidney at first I thought they had started to write his first name instead of hers and then stopped but not corrected the entry. However, here is her death reg:
Deaths Mar 1954
Griffiths Sidna 96 St.Helens 10f 465
But I don't know how she is connected, assuming she is a relative (blood or married in) and not just a coincidence!
There's a Sydna Williams the right age, widow of Richard, in St Helens in 1901 and 1911. I can't find a marriage to a Griffiths though, nor her marriage to Richard Williams or the birth registrations of their children (I only spent five mins looking though!). I did notice her son John was a sheet glass blower in 1911. Same occ as Henry Burrows in 1911, but maybe it was a common occupation in the area?
Olde Crone
09-05-21, 09:58
Merry
From memory, St Helens did have high employment in the glass industry.
OC
OK, fair enough!
I have just found Sidna in 1911 with her OH and a daughter, so forget about the Williams people in my prev post:
Owen Griffiths 51 coal miner b Carnarvonshire Pen-y-groes
Sydney Griffiths 47
Margaret Griffiths 15 b Haydock, Lancs.
They are living at 125 B Chancery Lane Parr St Helens and your Burrows family are at number 127B :)
So, what's the betting Elizabeth E is their daughter?
If only I could see them in 1901!! I've only looked for about 20 seconds though.....
kiterunner
09-05-21, 11:38
This is them in 1901:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/7814/images/LANRG13_3523_3525-1096?treeid=&personid=&rc=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=Ctf25324&_phstart=successSource&pId=21914551
125B Chances Lane, Parr, St Helens
Owen Griffiths Head M 42 Surface Laborer Wales Pen-y-Groes
Sydnes Do Wife M 38 Carnarvonshire Carnarvon
Nelly Do Dau S 11 Do Do
Margaret Do Dau S 5 Lanc Haydock.
Thanks Kate. Hmmm, so no Elizabeth in the house?
I'd just found these entries:
Marriages Dec 1888 (>99%)
GRIFFITHS Owen O Carnarvon 11b 749
Parry Sydney Carnarvon 11b 749
GRIFFITHS, MAGGIE PARRY
GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 197
(Warrington for Haydock)
But this, below, is too late for date, assuming Nelly is Elizabeth aged 11 in 1901.
GRIFFITHS, ELIZABETH ELLEN PARRY
GRO Reference: 1892 J Quarter in PWLLHELI Volume 11B Page 416
It's also the wrong district for where Elizabeth said she was born in 1911 (should be Carnarvon district)
There's an Elizabeth Mary in 1888 in Carnarvon mmn Parry.
I'm not keen on Welsh FH!
kiterunner
09-05-21, 13:42
There is an Eliza Ellin Griffith birth registered Oct-Dec 1889, Carnarvon, MMN Parry. But of course there are so many Griffith(s) / Parry births it could just be a coincidence.
thanks. merry and kiterunner
hi ,I'm going to apply for the marriage certificate for henry and elizabeth , hope it will tell us more .
Post 98 , I couldn't find edward burrows after 1911 then found this on family search , coukd this be him . Edward Burrows
Age 19
Event Date 1915
Residence Place , Lancashire, England
Birth Date 1896
Birth Year (Estimated) 1896
Birthplace Skelmersdale, Lancashire, England
Military Regiment K17212
Battalion 10th Battalion
Military Company/Regiment King's Own (Royal Lancaster) Regiment
Digital Folder Number GBM/WO363-4/007273351/00739
If it is him , can i find out if he survived or not ? where would i search ? thanks
The army records for Edward Burrows K17212 are on Ancestry.
They give his next of kin as Ellen Sumner (grandmother) of 21 Chorley Road, Heath Charnock, Lancs.
In 1911 he is living with his widowed grandmother, Ellen Rothwell nee Moss. I haven't found a remarriage for Ellen, but on that 1911 census there is a boarder named Edward Summer who she could have married or cohabited with.
We know Edward was born about Sept 1897. On the first page of the army papers it states he was aged 19 yrs 113 dates (dodgy writing for the days, could be 173) on 21 Sept 1914. That would suggest a birth date of about May/June 1895 or a bit earlier.
However, on the following page it says he was discharged 22 Jul 1915 under para 392 (vi) King's Regulations which is "(vi) Having made a mis-statement as to age on enlistment". Also, there is an address recorded for discharge which is the same as Ellen's except number 61 not 21. Up until this point he was only posted as far as Kingsbridge Devon and Swanage Dorset, where he was punished for misdemeanours - laughing in the ranks on parade and absent from a route march. For some reason Ancestry has the doc in the Army Pension records, but I can't see that can be correct!
hi ,I found a marriage on family of rothwell to thomas sumner 1920 in ormskirk it doesn't give first name .of rothwell . could this be her ?
Not quite following you there, but do you mean this one (FreeBMD)?
Marriages Sep 1920 (>99%)
Heywood Sarah E A Smyth Ormskirk 8b 2011
Rothwell Hilda Sumner Ormskirk 8b 2011
Smyth Frederick H Heywood Ormskirk 8b
Sumner Thomas Rothwell Ormskirk 8b 2011
Hi ,Sorry ,The marriage is 1920 in ormskirk on family search ,it says rothwell not with a first name but spouse thomas sumner .
hi ,checked Lancs bmd ,and a hilda rothwell married thomas sumner in1920 ormskirk so that's not her
so it may not be my edward ?
Edwards Paternal grandmother was ellen rothwell nee moss , who he was with on the 1911 census .
so it may not be my edward ?
I don't understand you?
i can't find a marriage for ellen rothwell to a sumner , as i'm trying to link the name with edward . but like you i can't find the link . so the record for edward may not belong to our edward .
What if she was cohabiting with the boarder? Maybe that's why they moved to Heath Charnock?
Remember the army record you found said Edward was b in Skelmersdale and we know the same Edward was lying about his age in 1914 and had a grandmother called Ellen and a connection to a Mr Summer/Sumner.
The only link is edward sumner who was a boarder in 1911 ,any ideas ?
sorry only saw the post after i sent the message , yes you could be right about moving to heath charnock
The only link is edward sumner who was a boarder in 1911 ,any ideas ?
The only link between what two things?
sorry ,some of your posts don't come up straight away , so i can't see new posts sometimes for a while . I think your right about ellen s cohabitation.
Hi think it's ellen rothwell in Heath Charnock with. edward burrows . edward sumner was nearly her age ,and like you said she could just be living with him . also good work once again
i checked the deaths for ellen rothwell , and there is one age 60 in adlington ,which is approx 1 and half miles away
there's a death 1932 of a edward sumner age 70 adlington .
Have you looked for Sumner as well as Rothwell for Ellen?
no ,but will do that now .
there are quite a few ellen sumner deaths , around the chorley ,preston and leyland area ,in various years . till after 1925 s . i'll try to check family search .
There's about three chorley deaths on free bmd ,for a ellen sumner .
i've searched marriages on a few sites ,but can't find one , theirs a few deaths for ellen sumner . maybe we will never know .
i found this death , ellen rothwell chorley age 60 , 1919 born approx 1859 . it could be her .
I also found a death for edward sumner chorley 1932 age 70 born approx 1932 , that could be him
hi I received the marriage certificate for henry burrows age 21 and elizabeth ellen Griffiths age 19 father henry burrows abode 23 wood street parr sheet glass blower . elizabeth's father owen griffiths abode 125 chancery lane . so i think this is our henry .
I should of added to follow on from post 151 regarding welsh family , you said it was better to check the certificate to see the father. thanks
I'm glad to hear it's arrived.
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Type: Births Surname: burrows Start date: Mar 1907
See post 152 , regarding henry burrows and elizabeth nee griffiths children . Could some of these births be their children . I know the places change , but i'd like your input to see what you think , as you mentioned rita and sidney . ? thanks
Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Sep 1911 (>99%)
Burrows Eileen Griffiths Birkenhead 8a 871 Scan available - click to view
BURROWS Sidney Griffiths Toxteth P. 8b 398 Scan available - click to view
Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Dec 1912 (>99%)
Burrows Ernest Griffiths Prescot 8b 1465 Scan available - click to view
Births Mar 1915 (>99%)
Burrows Harold Griffiths Prescot 8b 1528 Scan available - click to view
Births Dec 1916 (>99%)
Burrows Mabel Griffiths Toxteth P. 8b 343 Scan available - click to view
Births Jun 1917 (>99%)
BURROWS Rita Griffiths Prescot 8b 1329 Scan available - click to view
sorry i did write a message before the text but it hasn't added it . From post 152 henry burrows and elizabeth nee griffiths. children you found Rita and sidney . Do you think that any of the others are their children ? i would like your thoughts if possible ? thanks
Well obviously they can't all be, with two children registered in the same quarter in different districts.
However, what about using the 1921 census index? You already know Rita is a child of the family and she has a nice unusual forename.
Your message does show in post #190, in the middle of the stuff you copied from FreeBMD.
Please can you let me know how to do that free if possible as i know you have to pay at the moment for each view ? thanks
No charge to do this:
FindMyPast:
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/
Click the 1921 census link in the middle at the top of the opening page.
Underneath the main Search boxes, click advanced search.
Type Rita Burrows in the name boxes but remove the tick in the Name variants box under the forename.
Put 1917 in the birth year box.
Now look at the result.
From the resulting one match you can see where she is living. Note down the name of the parish (exact spelling).
Click advanced options over on the left at the bottom.
Remove Rita's name and birth year at the top. Scroll right down to the bottom and put Rita's full name in the Other household member boxes. Remember to remove the tick from the forename field. Just above that, enter the Parish name you took from the first search into the Optional Keywords field. (You should be able to put it in the parish field, but for me that isn't working today!!). Anyway, you should now have five matches.
Click View 5 results. Remember you won't see Rita in the results but you know she is in this household, b 1917.
Then post here what you have found and we can discuss the other children mentioned on your list in the earlier post this morning.
hi ,merry ,thanks i've tried to do it but , my old browser isn't good enough so the site won't let me use the page . I forgot about that .Most others work but not FMP . sorry .
*sigh* that took me ages!
The children in the house are:
Gladys 1909
Sidney 1910
Rita 1917
Eric 1918
Their mum is young enough for plenty more. They are still living in St Helen's.
You need to look at deaths for the other Prescot children born 1911-1921.
There are a couple more Prescot children after 1921. They may or may not be the same family, but you could look for them in 1939 (their record will only be open if they are now dec'd) and that might help you to find out who they are/ find the parents if they are not also dec'd.
I think we only found Rita and Sidney in 1939 before, so there's also Eric who should appear if he isn't in the services.
On the 1939 Register Rita and Sidney (both single) have three further people listed in their household who must have been born after 1921 as their details are hidden. They could be younger siblings, but they could equally be evacuees or lodgers etc.
thanks merry will have a look thanks for your help x
i think they had a ernest and harold between that time 1911/1920 i can see a death for harold there is a birth for ernest in 1912 which fits there a death in 1914 but it says age 1 There's a marriage for a sidney burrows to surname berks 1941 , there's a few marriage possibilities for Rita 1946 marriage to a surname lea and one to a biggs in 1948 there's a marriage of a eric burrows to surname birchall 1943 .
*sigh* that took me ages!
[...]
But there are some others of us who will appreciate your exquisitely detailed instructions, so thanks for that, Merry! :)
EDIT:
In fact, why not post another version of it somewhere that others will find it who might not necessarily read this thread. Like in 1921 Census tips for instance.
Ernest's birth is registered in Q4 of 1912 and his death Q3 of 1914, so more likely than not to be aged 1.
The only way he could be 2 is if he was born in August 1912 but not registered for six weeks (so into October for the registration) and then died in September 1914 and registered before the end of September.
Remember, six weeks to register a birth in England and Wales but only five days to register a death.
Rita's is the easiest to work out. You already have her date of birth (post #152) of 8 May 1917 from the 1939 Register. The Register should also give any new married surname for women up to around 1990. Hers shows as Lea. Knowing that, you can confirm the record is correct by looking for her death reg. If it's after 1969 then it will include her dob. Even if you didn't know about the name change because you can't see the 1939 Page, you could still search the 1939 with the name Lea and see if the entry still appears and/or look for a death reg in names Burrows, Lea and Biggs and see if any of them turned up a match with the correct dob:
Name: Rita Lea
Death Age: 79
Birth Date: 8 May 1917
Registration Date: Jan 1997
Registration District: Knowsley
Inferred County: Merseyside
Register Number: C33
District and Subdistrict: 0231C
Entry Number: 140
Yes you are appreciated very much ,merry as i've said i'm partially sighted , and haven't got a great browser which limits also what i can see . as sites don't work as well with mine
Janet! :D:D:D
:p:p:p
You saw my edit, Merry?
Great deduction on your part merry as usual a star .
I can only find one birth for a rita lea in uxbridge london . in 1959. i'll keep checking
there's also a steven lea (burrows ) born in 1969 but rita would have been over forty , so i suppose it's highly unlikely to be her
I can only find one birth for a rita lea in uxbridge london . in 1959. i'll keep checking
Why do you want a birth for a Rita Lea?
Janet, no, I didn't see your Edit, but I have now. The trouble is there are subtle differences every time you search. I missed out quite a few stages when explaining to Qwackers because it made what I wrote more complicated but (as it happens) gave the same result. A lot depends on how rare the name is/was. Rita Burrows with a birth year in WW1 was rare at that date (unique?!), but if she had been called Mary Burrows then the search would have to be different.
I will think about it!
out of curiosity i looked for a birth for biggs man burrows between 1948 /1960 and two came up , a ********* born 1948 liverpool south . and a ******* lea ( burrows , born epping 1955 , obviously epping in essex . liverpool not far away . the only problem being that burrows is a very common name .
I don't see any births in England/Wales for children of Rita Burrows/Lea unless her married surname got taken as Lee instead of Lea in which case there are loads of matches!! lol
Births Mar 1959 (>99%)
LEA ............BURROWS Uxbridge
Births Mar 1964 (>99%)
LEA ..........BURROWS uxbridge . those are the only two i can find on free reg between 1946 /1970
i see what you mean about the name lee there are loads with mmn burrows lol
Births Mar 1959 (>99%)
LEA ............BURROWS Uxbridge
Births Mar 1964 (>99%)
LEA ..........BURROWS uxbridge . those are the only two i can find on free reg between 1946 /1970
Yes, but the parents for those are very likely the couple who married in Uxbridge in 1959.
1958 lee ......BURROWS Romford 5a 1378 Scan available - click to view
Marriages Mar 1959 (>99%)
LEE ....... BURROWS Manchester 10e 251 Marriages Mar 1959 (>99%)
LEA ...... A BURROWS uxbridge yes i have seen these
i've checked the marriage in uxbridge and it's not our rita . so we can rule the uxbridge births out . so we are left with the surname lee , unless they didn't have any children ? i didn't see the first name of who rita married did you see it ?
i've checked the marriage in uxbridge and it's not our rita .
You already have your Rita's marriage in 1946! You mentioned it earlier today (post #199).
i didn't see the first name of who rita married did you see it ?
I think it was Frank, but you should check.
i'm off out will have a look after .thanks
there was a death in Prescot for a gladys E burrows in june 1911 age three . i couldn't find one for eric .theres a marriage possibility for eric in 1943 to a margeret birchall st. helens .
I'm still checking marriages for rita as there are a few rita's over the years married to Biggs in prescot , lea in st. helens . there's two in 1955 to a dagnall and a swift . how can i deduce which is the correct one . i was thinking the one to lea was correct ,but it may not be ?
If she died in Knowsley , she may have stayed around the area as prescot isn't far away from knowsley .
there was a death in Prescot for a gladys E burrows in june 1911 age three
See post #196 - Your Gladys was on the 1921 census.
i couldn't find one for eric
There are 10 matches for deaths with a year of birth around 1918. About half can be at least provisionally eliminated as the dates of birth given don't match with a Q4 birth registration. Your Eric was registered for birth Q4 1918, so could have been born Aug 1918-Dec 1918. Of the others, this one sees the most likely (d before 1969, so no dob given), but you would probably have to get the certificate to be sure(you should probably also check the CWGC site in case he was killed in WW2, given he isn't showing up on the 1939 register, so might be in the services):
Name: Eric Burrows
Death Age: 41
Birth Date: abt 1918
Registration Date: Oct 1959
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District: St Helens
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10f
Page: 405
theres a marriage possibility for eric in 1943 to a margeret birchall st. helens .
If he married at all, there are five possible marriages in St Helens before 1959 and remember marriages often took place where the bride came from, so that might be anywhere! I would only go as far as the 1943 marriage may be him.
I'm still checking marriages for rita as there are a few rita's over the years married to Biggs in prescot , lea in st. helens . there's two in 1955 to a dagnall and a swift . how can i deduce which is the correct one . i was thinking the one to lea was correct ,but it may not be ?
See posts #199, #201 and #216.
As I said in post #201, the 1939 Register was updated for womens new surnames through to about 1990.
If she died in Knowsley , she may have stayed around the area as prescot isn't far away from knowsley .
See post #201.
hi checked the war dead , there was one eric burrows died 1940 age 19 , it showed wife so he wasn't our eric .
i checked the marriages for gladys burrows , and found three potential ones . First gladys ,married surname eccles 1929 prescot two in 1931 one to a newcombe and one to bate . both in prescot
sorry the penny has just dropped with regards to rita. yes the birth and death match as you say . so she married Frank lea .
Him being married wouldn't discount him, though his age is a bit out if it was him. However, when I looked at the record it said nothing about him being married, only who his parents were:
Son of James E. and Rose A. Burrows
So not yours for that reason.
yes your right , it could be that rita didn't have any children
i checked the marriages for gladys burrows , and found three potential ones . First gladys ,married surname eccles 1929 prescot two in 1931 one to a newcombe and one to bate . both in prescot
So now you need to look for deaths in those names and see if any have a good fit with her birth registration:
Births Mar 1909 (>99%)
Burrows Gladys Prescot 8b 857
(I can't check that's the right one because the GRO site is closed for maintenance, but I think it's the one, so b Nov 1908-Mar 1909)
i have checked the births for the surname lee mmn burrows there's none around the prescot area two around st. helens in 1963 but i think rita would have been too old , there's one around ince .
i checked the married names i found for a gladys burrows , eccles newcombe and bate . and found a birth for [name removed in case still living] in 1932 in prescot .
kiterunner
20-01-22, 09:35
Qwackers, I have removed the name that you included in your post in case they are still living, unless you know for sure that they are not? Let me know if so and I will put it back.
i checked the married names i found for a gladys burrows , eccles newcombe and bate . and found a birth for [name removed in case still living] in 1932 in prescot .
You need to look at deaths first in case you can trace one as your Gladys or eliminate any of these women.
I'll help out by saying there's a Gladys A Newcombe with husband Alfred on the 1939 Register in St Helens. Her date of birth is given as 20 May 1909. You didn't mention the first name of the husband in the marriage you found.
I had looked at the deaths and only found one Gladys who was a baby .
So you looked for Gladys Eccles and Gladys Bate after their respective marriages and only found one death and that was for a child?
Surely those names are not that uncommon?
If you tell me the names of the two husbands I'll look for them in 1939.
Perhaps you could also confirm the name of the husband of Gladys who married Newcombe.
Thanks. Off out now. Back in a bit....
I'm sorry I didn't check for the deaths in those names but will do that now
Alfred Newcombe I think I've found the marriage in 1931the deaths I've looked at for there's a bate 1930 Margaret age one Alina bate 1938age 0 John bate 1940 age 0 there's a Alfred Newcombe 1934 sorry not made a note of his age
Alfred Newcombe I think I've found the marriage in 1931
Ok, good - so the Gladys Newcombe I found in 1939 (post #231) looks like the lady from the 1931 marriage as she has the correct husband. Now you know she shouldn't be your Gladys because of her date of birth that is given in my post. You could look for her birth reg to be belt and braces, which will probably be Q2 or Q3 1909 rather than Q1 and will probably have her correct middle initial.
the deaths I've looked at for there's a bate 1930 Margaret age one Alina bate 1938age 0 John bate 1940 age 0 there's a Alfred Newcombe 1934 sorry not made a note of his age
You need to be looking for the deaths of Mrs Gladys Bate and Mrs Gladys Eccles not these children. You need to see how old Mrs Bate and Mrs Eccles were when they died to see if they were the right age to be your Gladys Burrows.
As I said before, if you tell me who each of them married I will look at the 1939 Register.
i can't find a death fo a gladys bate eccles. or newcombe around the prescot area .
And the names of their husbands please (Bate and Eccles).
Here's the full picture for Gladys Newcombe:
Births Sep 1909
Burrows Gladys Annie Warrington 8c 168
Marriage 1931 to Alfred Newcombe
1939 (post #231)
Deaths Mar 1981
NEWCOMBE GLADYS ANNIE 20MY1909 KNOWSLEY 36 176
So, that's one eliminated. Hopefully one to go and one that is the correct Gladys.
the first name is leonard bate marriage to gladys prescot 1931
Gladys Bate:
Births Sep 1903
Burrows Gladys Prescot 8b 855
1939 Register
Leonard Bate b 4 Feb? Year illegible
Gladys Bate b 6 Sep 1903
Death Reg
Name: Gladys Bate
Death Age: 82
Birth Date: 6 Sep 1903
Registration Date: May 1986
Registration District: Salford
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Volume: 39
Page: 812
So, she is also eliminated as she is too old.
And the husband of Mrs Eccles?
joseph w Eccles married gladys burrows 1929 in prescot
So, we would quite like this to be the right one!
1939 register:
Living at Hall Lane, Wrexham, Denbighshire
Joseph W Eccles b 30 Jun 1904
Gladys Eccles b 16 Feb 1909
Three other people entries hidden.
Death reg:
Name: Gladys Teresa Eccles
Death Age: 86
Birth Date: 16 Feb 1909
Registration Date: May 1995
Registration District: St Helens
Inferred County: Merseyside
Register Number: B37C
District and Subdistrict: 0301B
Entry Number: 87
So, we already know your Gladys was born between Nov 1908 and Mar 1909 so that date looks promissing.
The three hidden entries on the 1939 register could be their children:
Births Sep 1929
Prescot 8b 1240
Births Jun 1931
Wrexham 11b 332
Births Sep 1936
Wrexham 11b 342
Interesting that she had a middle name at death. There were no other birth registrations with middle initial T at the right time.
I'm still a bit confused that you said you couldn't find any deaths (Post #232).
********** born 1931 wrexham *********** born 1936 wrexham don't know if this birth belongs to them ************ born 1949 st. helens all mmn burrows . sorry i didn't look after 1980 for deaths for eccles
There's a reason I didn't post their names! We don't allow the details of living people on these boards wthout their permission.
i'm so sorry i did forget . glad you deleted them
yes it's strange gladys appears to have a middle name . but none on her birth .
garstonite
21-01-22, 06:02
post deleted........................................... .................
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