Can someone help me with 2 words please

[Gert in Oz]

I sent for 2 wills for a father and son, the fathers is very clear to read, but the sons very feint. I have transcibed the feint one for a cousin, but am having trouble with 2 words, can anyone help please,

Part of my transciription, with question marks fo the 2 words.

Provided always that any of my said four

children shall die in my lifetime, leaving a child or children who shall survive

me and attain the age of twenty one years then and in every such case the last

????ned child or children shall take land of more than one equally between

them, the share which his, her or their parent would have taken if living. I

declare that my trustees shall have power to cause any part or parts not

exceeding together one ???? of the signed in presumptive phase of any minor under

this my Will and pay and apply the same for him or her advancement preferment

or benifit as my trustees shall think fit.

THE Words, first one is the middle line and the second the second word.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb101/gert1945/word1.jpg



http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb101/gert1945/word2.jpg


Thank you for any help.

[HarrysMum]

Is the first one "mentioned" Doesn't make a lot of sense but then they use awful funny words in some wills I've seen....lol

[HarrysMum]

Would the second one be "whereby"....does that fir in with the rest of the sentence??

[Gert in Oz]

Could be Libby, thank you, i thought maintained be that didn`t fit either.

[Gert in Oz]

Don`t think its whereby though, there is no upper part for the H.

[brenmac]

1st one .....and attain ,,,,2nd one i think ....undermentioned child
brenda xxx

[kiterunner]

The second word is "moiety" - a half.

Sorry, the first one is making my eyes hurt with all the dots!

[Gert in Oz]

Thank you Brenda and Kiterunner, i have been staring at those dots for a couple of days now "moiety" fits, i had worked out the "iety" part, but would not have got the full word, never heard of it.

[kiterunner]

I've seen it in a few wills before, Sylvia.,

[Gert in Oz]

Will have to remember that for the future then, BTW there are no commas, full stops or any such marks in the will and it was done by solicitors clerks.

Oh one more question, after probate was granted at the end of the will it says,


Testator died 20th January 1912

Gross Estate 1624 pounds Y O (sorry don`t have a pound sign)

Would you have any idea what Y O stands for please?

[Olde Crone]

Gert

Just as an aside - legal documents, including Wills, never have any punctuation or spaces in them as a safeguard against fraud.

A space could have extra words added, a punctuation mark could alter the sense of something in a fraudulent way.

OC

[kiterunner]

You will usually find no punctuation in copies of wills because if they put a punctuation mark in the wrong place, it could potentially alter the meaning.

Are you sure it says Y O? Any chance you could post that bit up, please?

[Gert in Oz]

Thats interesting to know OC, thank you.

The fathers will has a couple of words added with the upwards pointed arrow underneath.

[kiterunner]

I have seen wills with words added in like that, and then at the end where the witnesses signed, it will say "after the interpolation of the words ... on page..." or something like that.

[Gert in Oz]

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb101/gert1945/word3.jpg


There is nothing else after this, could also be 7 O

[kiterunner]

I think it's just a / 0 meaning no shillings and no pence, Sylvia. Unless it's a 7 rather than a / in which case it would be 7 shillings.

[Gert in Oz]

I never thought of that, it makes sense now, thank you

He had his property sold and the money put into trust for his four children.

[Margaret in Burton]

Yes it's £1624 and 7 shillings and 0 pence.

[Mary from Italy]

This bit doesn't make sense:

of the signed in presumptive phase of any minor

Can you post the original?

[Mary from Italy]

A couple of corrections:

shall take, and if more than one equally between them

(I think "land" should be "and", but I'd need to see the original)

pay and apply the same for his or her advancement preferment

[Gert in Oz]

Thank you for looking Mary, i`m very much a novice with wills,

The presumptive word is on the 5th line and 5th word

Land or and is 2nd line 3rd word and yes it is his not him

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb101/gert1945/words2.jpg

[lozaras]

it's the word signed that's not right...

half(moitiey) of the...... the word looks like it ends in ...ted

stated???? maybe

[kiterunner]

It looks like (and rather than land. Not sure where the other bracket is!

Could it be "shares or presumptive share"? I can't make it out very well as it's so small!

[Gert in Oz]

Not sure about "stated" Sarah the second letter is not like a T, thank you


It could be share Kite, the S`s are a funny shape, i did try to make it bigger, but when i put it on here it was small again.

[Mary from Italy]

It looks like (and rather than land. Not sure where the other bracket is!

Could it be "shares or presumptive share"? I can't make it out very well as it's so small!

I can't read it either as it's so small and faint, but that makes a lot more sense.

Even better would be something like "actual or presumptive share". Does the original look anything like that?

[Gert in Oz]

Using the magnifying glass on my copy of the original, it looks more like inated or snated?, the n is like a capital N but small, could even be an m, but its ated or atid at the end.

[kiterunner]

Do you want to email me a copy of the will, Sylvia, and I'll have a try at deciphering those bits later on? I'll PM you my email address anyway because I'm off out shopping in a minute.

[Gert in Oz]

Thank you Kite, will do.

[kiterunner]

The word in question isn't really any clearer on the emailed image, sorry! But apart from that word:

Provided always that if any of my said four children shall die in my lifetime leaving a child or children who shall survive me and attain the age of twenty one years then and in every such case the last mentioned child or children shall take (and if more than one equally between them) the share which his her or their parent would have taken if living I declare that my trustees shall have power to use any part or parts not exceeding together one moiety of the shares(?) or presumptive share of any minor under this my Will and pay and apply the same for his or her advancement preferment or benefit as my trustees shall think fit

[Phoenix]

Is it possible that that word is recited?

The letter before the t looks fuller than that, but that might be a squiggle on the c. The first letter is feasibly an r.

[kiterunner]

Or possibly "stated".

[Mary from Italy]

Could it be "expected"?

[Gert in Oz]

Oh Gawd, i getting desperate :d, on my original copy, i shone a torch though the magnifying glass on to the word and came up with NOTED, but there is still that little squiggle in front of the N Wonder if it shouldn`t be there. :eek:

What do you ladies think ?

[Gert in Oz]

The word in question isn't really any clearer on the emailed image, sorry! But apart from that word:

Provided always that if any of my said four children shall die in my lifetime leaving a child or children who shall survive me and attain the age of twenty one years then and in every such case the last mentioned child or children shall take (and if more than one equally between them) the share which his her or their parent would have taken if living I declare that my trustees shall have power to use any part or parts not exceeding together one moiety of the shares(?) or presumptive share of any minor under this my Will and pay and apply the same for his or her advancement preferment or benefit as my trustees shall think fit

Thank you for looking Kite, i see what you mean about brackets now, where i thought it was a L was not.