Margaret Lynch

[Scatty Jan]

Name - "official" name and what they were known as
Margaret Lynch
Date and place of birth
Not known possibly Bradford thats what it says on 1911
Names of parents
She names her Father as Joseph Thomas Patrick Lynch on marriage cert (age at marriage 30)
Date and place of baptism - if applicable
not known
Details of each of his or her marriages - if any
11 apr 1903 - horsham to George Arthur Boyle
Occupation(s) - if any
Artiste
Military service - if any

Addresses where they lived - and please list which censuses you have or haven't found him/her on.
1911 71, Middleton Avenue, Greenford
This is the only census we have her on she says she has been married for 12 years but was only 8 - we think this is to hide the fact of her illigitamate son Alfred Leonard Leon who was brn 1899
Date, place and cause of death
17 Feb 1953 - Greenford Died aged 82 of broncho-pneumonia,
Date and place of burial / cremation.
Greenford Park Cemetery
Details of will / administration of their estate - if applicable
Memorial inscription - if any

[kiterunner]

Who were the witnesses at her wedding, Jan? Though I'm sure you've already been down that road!

[Merry]

Have you confirmed whether these men/this man are/is connected?!!

Marriages Dec 1900
Lynch Joseph Thomas P Lambeth 1d 745 <<<<<<<<<<<<
Matthews John Thomas Lambeth 1d 745
Palser Harriett Lambeth 1d 745
Swallow Margaret Ann Lambeth 1d 745


Marriages Dec 1912
Compton Grace M Lynch Fulham 1a 821
HAWKINS William Morgan Fulham 1a 821
Lynch Joe Compton Fulham 1a 821
Lynch Joseph T P Compton Fulham 1a 821 <<<<<<<<<<
Morgan Mary H Hawkins Fulham 1a 821

[kiterunner]

Joseph Thomas Patrick Lynch who married Margaret Ann Swallow 11th Dec 1900 gave his age etc as 36, bachelor, Artiste, father Thomas Lynch deceased, also Artiste. So he was too young to be Margaret Lynch's father. Does Margaret Lynch give her father's occupation on her marriage cert, Jan?

(Oops, just noticed the occupation "Artiste" on your post! Presumably that was Margaret's occupation? But it certainly suggests a connection with the above!)

[kiterunner]

Okay, on the 1901 census there is a Joseph Lynch age 36, Music Hall Artist, born Ireland, living in Westminster with a wife Margaret 31 born Northumberland, Nth Shields, no children. Margaret Ann Swallow on that 1900 marriage cert was age 31, widow, father Robert Ralph Lee, mariner. So if that is the same couple, maybe we can track Joseph back and see if he has a sister called Margaret on the earlier censuses. It's not that unusual for a brother's name to be given instead of father's on a marriage cert, so that could be the explanation.

[Scatty Jan]

Have been down the road of Joseph Thomas Patrick Lynch who married Margaret Ann Swallow 11th Dec 1900
That Margaret was previoulsy married cant recall her maiden name of the top of my head - but I think from memory she dies about 1909 and that Joseph Lynch remmaries.
I totally agreed it certainly looks like a connection but I just cant find one lol

Fathers occupation on mc was Publican

Witnesses James B King &
Leah Strickland (1881 census aged 2 born Margate - parents Francis & Theresa - comedians)

[Scatty Jan]

(Oops, just noticed the occupation "Artiste" on your post! Presumably that was Margaret's occupation?

Yes that was Margarets occupation :-)

[Rick]

Does anyone know what the mysterious note in the margin next to the marriage entry in the Ancestry LMA records for Joseph Lynch and Margaret Swallow in 1900 might mean ?

It says "Applicants for certified copy of entry 206 should be referred to the Registrar General".

I wonder why ?

[Merry]

Does anyone know what the mysterious note in the margin next to the marriage entry in the Ancestry LMA records for Joseph Lynch and Margaret Swallow in 1900 might mean ?

It says "Applicants for certified copy of entry 206 should be referred to the Registrar General".

I wonder why ?

Sounds like the sort of thing they wrote if the marriage had been annulled. Copies of such marriage certs are not supposed to be issued if requested.

but I think from memory she dies about 1909 and that Joseph Lynch remmaries.


I'm not sure that is the same Joseph Lynch who remarried in 1912 as there is a Joseph P T Lynch on the 1911 census near to Fulham, but he was b in Yorkshire about 1875 (having said that, there is no obvious birth reg for this man, so maybe he is the other one with very different details?

I did write a long post on here yesterday after I posted up those two marriages, but it's not here now!

[Rick]

Sounds like the sort of thing they wrote if the marriage had been annulled. Copies of such marriage certs are not supposed to be issued if requested.



I'm not sure that is the same Joseph Lynch who remarried in 1912 as there is a Joseph P T Lynch on the 1911 census near to Fulham, but he was b in Yorkshire about 1875 (having said that, there is no obvious birth reg for this man, so maybe he is the other one with very different details?

I did write a long post on here yesterday after I posted up those two marriages, but it's not here now!

Jan and I have been stuck on this for so long - thanks for giving us something new to think about !!

I did successfully send off for that cert before the LMA records came online. We did wonder whether Margaret Swallow (nee Ralph) was my great grandmother, although she was born in Northumberland. My mother says her grandmother (Margaret Lynch) had a London accent though.

My great aunt said her mother (Margaret Lynch) was born in Ireland and was in the circus and the man she said was her father may have "taken her in". She was prone to getting confused in later years though so take that with a pinch of salt.

Alfred Leonard Leon's birth was never registered either just to make it even more confusing. He said his father was Alfred Leon, a publican, on his marriage certificate. Can't find him on 1901 either.

[Scatty Jan]

I think the reason I wondered if that was his re marriage
Marriages Dec 1912
Compton Grace M Lynch Fulham 1a 821

is beacuse the death in 1911 of Margaret Lynch aged 43.

Ive spent ages re looking at this lot again today argggghhhhhhh :-)
still keeps me out of mischief

[Merry]

A moments inspiration (only a little bit!).....Remember I said there was Joseph P T Lynch b Yorkshire abt 1875 on the 1911 census who I thought the marriage in 1912 belonged to and wondered if he was actually the one b 1865ish in Ireland as I couldn't find a birth for someone of that name in Yorks?

I just went back to the 1911 and tried Bradford as a place of birth for Joseph aged 36 and it came up as a match!! So, I bet it is the same man and he's decided to give the same place of birth as your Margaret, for whatever reason. I have tried a few different occupations for this Joseph, but haven't got a match yet (tried artiste and artist and musical and theatre so far - sorry I don't have a sub for the 1911, as you have probably realised!) His age could be wrong because he was a boarder in the household, so the landlady may have guessed.

[Scatty Jan]

OOhhhhhhhhhhhh Merry now that is interesting think I may have to get a few credits for 1911 - watch this space
:-))))

[Merry]

I did successfully send off for that cert before the LMA records came online.

Can you remember where you got it from?

[Merry]

OOhhhhhhhhhhhh watch this space
:-))))

Well, I would love to, but have to take dau to the shops two Sats before Christmas :eek::mad: so I won't be back for a bit!

[Scatty Jan]

Merry the cert came from GRO
lookin at the said cert on LMA the same message is on another cert on the next page.
The cert also matches the 1901 census info (I think lol)

[Scatty Jan]

Well, I would love to, but have to take dau to the shops two Sats before Christmas so I won't be back for a bit!

OMG see you in about a week lol
Have fun

[Margaret in Burton]

I've got a sub to the 1911, I'll look it up.

Give me the details, I haven't read the thread very thoroughly. :D:D:D

EDIT

Found it, hang on

[Margaret in Burton]

A moments inspiration (only a little bit!).....Remember I said there was Joseph P T Lynch b Yorkshire abt 1875 on the 1911 census who I thought the marriage in 1912 belonged to and wondered if he was actually the one b 1865ish in Ireland as I couldn't find a birth for someone of that name in Yorks?

I just went back to the 1911 and tried Bradford as a place of birth for Joseph aged 36 and it came up as a match!! So, I bet it is the same man and he's decided to give the same place of birth as your Margaret, for whatever reason. I have tried a few different occupations for this Joseph, but haven't got a match yet (tried artiste and artist and musical and theatre so far - sorry I don't have a sub for the 1911, as you have probably realised!) His age could be wrong because he was a boarder in the household, so the landlady may have guessed.

This Joseph is single, he's an author born in Bradford and boarding in the household of William Green and family

[Margaret in Burton]

I think the reason I wondered if that was his re marriage
Marriages Dec 1912
Compton Grace M Lynch Fulham 1a 821

is beacuse the death in 1911 of Margaret Lynch aged 43.

Ive spent ages re looking at this lot again today argggghhhhhhh :-)
still keeps me out of mischief

Is this the one in Lambeth?

If so, she is on the 1911 married to a Henry Peter Lynch and she is Welsh, born in Aberystwyth.

[Scatty Jan]

Margaret
Thank you very much for looking that up for us
I think that crosses him off :(
Is this the one in Lambeth?

If so, she is on the 1911 married to a Henry Peter Lynch and she is Welsh, born in Aberystwyth.

OMG so that rules that death out as well - thank you for that I was convinced that that was Margret Lynch/Swallow /Ralph

[Margaret in Burton]

Jan

If you want to see the images for yourself just pm me your email addy.

If there is anything else you need looking for in 1911 just ask.

[Scatty Jan]

I think we need to get the MC for
Joseph T P Lynch 1912 ans see if that gives any clues

[Scatty Jan]

Thank you very much Margaret thats very kind of you
I dont think I need the images as I think thats preety much ruled them out - Im so pleased that my red herring theory has been cleared up and I was wrong :-)

[Scatty Jan]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh I think , just think I may have a clue!!

the marriage of JTP Lynch in 1912
Grace M Compton

in 1892 Grace Mary Green Married William Compton who was a Muscian!!
she was born about 1872

[kiterunner]

I've found an article in the 19th century British Library newspapers collection from "The Era" dated Saturday, August 15, 1885 about an actor called Joseph Thomas Lynch who was charged with stealing a gold ring in Southend. (He was acquitted.) Unfortunately it doesn't give his age, birthplace, or anything like that.

[Margaret in Burton]

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh I think , just think I may have a clue!!

the marriage of JTP Lynch in 1912
Grace M Compton

in 1892 Grace Mary Green Married William Compton who was a Muscian!!
she was born about 1872

That sounds about right. Do you think that might be the JTP Lynch in 1911 who was single?

Shout if you want the image.

[Margaret in Burton]

There is Grace Mary Compton in 1911, she is a widow and an assistant nurse at the Middlesex County Asylum. She is 41 though.

It could be her though.

[Scatty Jan]

OMG am I going mad???

This Joseph is single, he's an author born in Bradford and boarding in the household of William Green and family

JTP Lynch M Grace M Compton nee GREEN she was brn in Croyden

So if the offer of the image is still available would love it!! Will pm you my addy
ohhhhhhhhhhh am excited

[Margaret in Burton]

OMG am I going mad???



JTP Lynch M Grace M Compton nee GREEN she was brn in Croyden

So if the offer of the image is still available would love it!! Will pm you my addy
ohhhhhhhhhhh am excited

I'll send both. This Grace is born in Croydon

[Margaret in Burton]

Just attaching the images to the email. I am sending the Djvu files from FMP and the screenshots in j.peg as well, just in case you can't open the first ones.

[Rick]

I've found an article in the 19th century British Library newspapers collection from "The Era" dated Saturday, August 15, 1885 about an actor called Joseph Thomas Lynch who was charged with stealing a gold ring in Southend. (He was acquitted.) Unfortunately it doesn't give his age, birthplace, or anything like that.

This is interesting too - thank you and thanks to Margaret for the 1911s.

[Scatty Jan]

recieved them BRILLIANT thank you tons and tons

[Margaret in Burton]

Have sent them to Rick as well. :D:D:D

[Scatty Jan]

I found Grace Green's
Birth Date: 7 Jan 1870
Christening Date: 27 Feb 1870

we will be ordering the MC tonight

[Scatty Jan]

Do you know I ummed and arrred about putting this up in the first place as we knew so little and the years we have spent looking about for info -
as you can tell I am sooooooo excited

[Margaret in Burton]

I ummed and arred the first week as I thought I had it all. Someone found the army record and I found loads after that.

This week Kiterunner found a baptism in London when they were from Suffolk.
You never know what fresh eyes can bring.

Anymore, just shout.

[Merry]

I'm back!!

Two little things:

The Margaret Lynch who died in 1911 in Lambeth aged 43 was registered in Q1, so unless someone had a premonition or she was dead in her coffin on the dining table for the census she can't have been registered for death in Q1 and be on the census too, as it wasn't taken until 2nd April.

Secondly, the business about requests for copy certs to be directed to the GRO is probably just because the vicar hadn't signed the register (if you look his sig is missing for both the Lynch marriage and the one on the following page). I expect the new vicar (or whoever that was who wrote in the margin) felt he couldn't say for definite who performed the ceremony and hoped the correct name would be on the GRO copy, given that should have been filled in by the incumbent at the end of the Q the marriage took place.

[Margaret in Burton]

I'm back!!

Two little things:

The Margaret Lynch who died in 1911 in Lambeth aged 43 was registered in Q1, so unless someone had a premonition or she was dead in her coffin on the dining table for the census she can't have been registered for death in Q1 and be on the census as it wasn't taken until 2nd April.

Secondly, the business about requests for copy certs to be directed to the GRO is probably just because the vicar hadn't signed the register (if you look his sig is missing for both the Lynch marriage and the one on the following page). I expect the new vicar (or whoever that was who wrote in the margin) felt he couldn't say for definite who performed the ceremony and hoped the correct name would be on the GRO copy, given that should have been filled in by the incumbent at the end of the Q the marriage took place.


No, Jun qtr Merry

Jun qtr 1911
Lambeth
1d 151

[Merry]

pmsl! Oops, sorry Margaret (sorry, Marg - can't get used to that!)!!

It was Q1 when I looked before - funnily enough it was Fulham and not Lambeth when I looked before too, so now I'm wondering what it was that I looked at before???!!!

[Rick]

I'm back!!

Two little things:

The Margaret Lynch who died in 1911 in Lambeth aged 43 was registered in Q1, so unless someone had a premonition or she was dead in her coffin on the dining table for the census she can't have been registered for death in Q1 and be on the census too, as it wasn't taken until 2nd April.

Secondly, the business about requests for copy certs to be directed to the GRO is probably just because the vicar hadn't signed the register (if you look his sig is missing for both the Lynch marriage and the one on the following page). I expect the new vicar (or whoever that was who wrote in the margin) felt he couldn't say for definite who performed the ceremony and hoped the correct name would be on the GRO copy, given that should have been filled in by the incumbent at the end of the Q the marriage took place.

Aha ! That makes sense Merry - thanks. I'll go and dig out my GRO copy.

[Rick]

Signature is on my copy so looks like you've explained that one Merry.

I've ordered the marriage cert for JTP Lynch and Grace Crompton so lets see if that gives us any more clues.

Interesting twist - I've always assumed that Margaret Lynch's illegitimate son Alfred Leon was the son of Alfred Leon born around 1854 in Bath. Seems like he got 5 years for bigamy at the Old Bailey in 1886 !!

[kiterunner]

Where does Alfred Leon jr say he was born on the 1911 census?

[Margaret in Burton]

Can someone direct me to Alfred Leon Jnr on the 1911?

I can't find him

[kiterunner]

He's listed as Alfred Boyle, age 11, in Fulham with Margaret Boyle 39, Arthur Boyle 39, Edith 6, George 4, and Margaret 3.

[Margaret in Burton]

Where does Alfred Leon jr say he was born on the 1911 census?



Found it

Alfred was born in Sittingbourne in Kent

[Rick]

Where does Alfred Leon jr say he was born on the 1911 census?

He was born in Sittingbourne and is recorded as Alfred Boyle. His granddaughter says he was born "on tour" and they didn't register the birth, causing him problems when he applied for a passport some 50+ years later :)

Alfred (Herbert) Leon senior seems to have fathered a couple of other illegitimate children too. He bigamously married Emily Elizabeth Elisha in 1885 as Herbert Lyons and they had Winifred May Lyons in 1886. There's also a widowed Annie Selina Thorn who remarries in 1902 to Arthur Cooper, naming her father as Alfred Leon, commercial traveller.

Seems like my great grandmother was one in quite a series of conquests !!

[Margaret in Burton]

Been an interesting one Rick and Jan

Anymore to find?

[Rick]

Been an interesting one Rick and Jan

Anymore to find?

LOL Marg - this one hurts my head every time I look at it. Jan and I have been chipping away at this one for years.

I'm thinking now that JTP Lynch who married Grace Compton is going to be Margaret's brother as they are both born Bradford and both artistic. Where are they on the censuses though ? We've now got them both in 1911 (thanks for the images btw) and possibly him in 1901 if he is the same one who married Margaret Swallow/Ralph.

Where is Annie Selina Thorn in 1901 and who was her husband ? And what was she known as before that as it doesn't seem to have been Leon ?

Rick.

[Margaret in Burton]

OK

I'm off to bed, I'll have another look tomorrow.

LOL

[Margaret in Burton]

Just a thought

They were probably with my great uncle Alfred George (known as George) Newey.

He was a vocalist/ entertainer and cannot be found on any census since he left his parents home in 1891. I have found his wife in 1911 but not him.


I think these sort of people were a law unto themselves

[Rick]

Just a thought

They were probably with my great uncle Alfred George (known as George) Newey.

He was a vocalist/ entertainer and cannot be found on any census since he left his parents home in 1891. I have found his wife in 1911 but not him.


I think these sort of people were a law unto themselves

I now have a mental picture of them all singing raucous songs around an open fire in a woodland clearing with their caravans pitched in a circle while the census enumerator knocks in vain at their empty homes :d

[Margaret in Burton]

Can we have a recap what we are still looking for?

Margaret (whatever her surname is, I'm really confused) in any census prior to 1911

Joseph TP Lynch on a census prior to 1911

Margaret and Joseph's birth reg?

So, who is Grace Green/Compton/Lynch?

[Margaret in Burton]

I've found Grace on all available census but I have a feeling we don't need to. She is a widow in 1901 too. She was working at the Middlesex Lunatic Asylum in 1891 and 1901 too.

[Scatty Jan]

Omg Marg have woke up loads in the night trying to work it all out lol
Ok I can answer about Grace Compton
She was Nee Green and married William Compton in 1892 - William Compton was a musician so I was trying to find him - I havent managed at all -
Grace Compton goes on to Marry Joseph TP Lynch in 1912 and we have now ordered cert.
I will let Rick answer the rest as I will confuse you even more
Thank you so much for all your continued help :-))

[Rick]

Can we have a recap what we are still looking for?

Margaret (whatever her surname is, I'm really confused) in any census prior to 1911

Joseph TP Lynch on a census prior to 1911

Margaret and Joseph's birth reg?

So, who is Grace Green/Compton/Lynch?

Just to recap (sorry it is so confusing):

We are looking for Margaret Lynch, my great grandmother. We only have her on one census - 1911 in Fulham when she was aged 39 and born Bradford. She married George Arthur Boyle in 1903 in Horsham and had an illegitimate son Alfred Leonard Leon in 1899 in Sittingbourne. Alf's birth was never registered and he and his mother are not to be found on the 1901 census.

Alf Leon's father appears to have been Alfred Herbert Leon, a bigamist and serial adulterer. Alfred senior married Edith Fanny Glasier and then Emily Elizabeth Elisha. He also seems to have had a child Annie Selina Leon who married an unknown Thorn - she married as a widow in 1902 to Arthur Cooper in Paddington. No other trace of her.

Margaret Lynch said her father was Joseph Thomas Patrick Lynch, a publican, deceased in 1903. Someone of that name married Margaret Swallow (nee Ralph) in 1900 and is with her in 1901 in Westminster. There's also a marriage to Grace Compton (nee Green) in 1912 of Joseph T P Lynch in Fulham and he appears to be the one in 1911 born Bradford, living in Croydon with Grace's brother. Not sure if he is the same one on the 1901 as the age and place of birth are different. I'm hoping that at least the 1911 one is my great grandmother's brother.

Thanks for all of your efforts,

Rick.

[Margaret in Burton]

Just to recap (sorry it is so confusing):

We are looking for Margaret Lynch, my great grandmother. We only have her on one census - 1911 in Fulham when she was aged 39 and born Bradford. She married George Arthur Boyle in 1903 in Horsham and had an illegitimate son Alfred Leonard Leon in 1899 in Sittingbourne. Alf's birth was never registered and he and his mother are not to be found on the 1901 census.

Alf Leon's father appears to have been Alfred Herbert Leon, a bigamist and serial adulterer. Alfred senior married Edith Fanny Glasier and then Emily Elizabeth Elisha. He also seems to have had a child Annie Selina Leon who married an unknown Thorn - she married as a widow in 1902 to Arthur Cooper in Paddington. No other trace of her.

Margaret Lynch said her father was Joseph Thomas Patrick Lynch, a publican, deceased in 1903. Someone of that name married Margaret Swallow (nee Ralph) in 1900 and is with her in 1901 in Westminster. There's also a marriage to Grace Compton (nee Green) in 1912 of Joseph T P Lynch in Fulham and he appears to be the one in 1911 born Bradford, living in Croydon with Grace's brother. Not sure if he is the same one on the 1901 as the age and place of birth are different. I'm hoping that at least the 1911 one is my great grandmother's brother.

Thanks for all of your efforts,

Rick.

Rick

What is the census ref for that one in 1901? I can't find it.

[Margaret in Burton]

Is this the one you mean?

RG13; Piece: 95; Folio: 107; Page: 20

[Rick]

Is this the one you mean?

RG13; Piece: 95; Folio: 107; Page: 20

Yes Marg - that's the one. I have their marriage cert from 1900. is age and place of birth do not match the on from 1911 but his name is Joseph Thomas Patrick Lynch and there's that artistic link again.

[Margaret in Burton]

I can see why it's doing your head in, it's driving me mad too.

What's his fathers name on that marriage cert?

[Rick]

I can see why it's doing your head in, it's driving me mad too.

What's his fathers name on that marriage cert?

:D Welcome to the madhouse !!

Full details:

Joseph Thomas Patrick Lynch aged 36, batchelor, artiste of 27 South Lambeth Road, father Thomas Lynch, deceased, artiste

and

Margaret Ann Swallow aged 31, widow of 7 Parker Street, father Robert Ralph, deceased, mariner

Married 11 Dec 1900 at St Mary, Lambeth. Witnesses George Whitehead and Annie Robbins. George Whitehead is a witness on several other marriages so is probably an official. There's a Robbins family in the same building as the Lynchs in 1901.

[Margaret in Burton]

Don't know if you have this but there is a death of a Margaret Ann Lynch in 1910.
St George Hanover Sq
Jun qtr 1a 251
aged 39

It fits and perhaps Joseph wasn't truthful to William Green in 1911 about being a widower.

[Rick]

Don't know if you have this but there is a death of a Margaret Ann Lynch in 1910.
St George Hanover Sq
Jun qtr 1a 251
aged 39

It fits and perhaps Joseph wasn't truthful to William Green in 1911 about being a widower.

I hadn't seen that one. There are a couple of other Margaret Lynchs on the 1901 in the London area of a similar age but it does fit.

[Margaret in Burton]

When the marriage cert arrives for Joseph and Grace I wonder who Joseph will have as fathers name.

Hopefully Thomas.

[Rick]

When the marriage cert arrives for Joseph and Grace I wonder who Joseph will have as fathers name.

Hopefully Thomas.

Or it could say Joseph Thomas Patrick !!

[Margaret in Burton]

Or it could say Joseph Thomas Patrick !!


We will await the outcome Rick, when is the estimated date of dispatch? (allowing for the Christmas post of course)

[Rick]

We will await the outcome Rick, when is the estimated date of dispatch? (allowing for the Christmas post of course)

The 18th - frustrating to say the least. Still, I've been staring at this particular brick wall for more than 6 years, so I don't suppose a few more days will hurt.

[Uncle John]

Does anyone know what the mysterious note in the margin next to the marriage entry in the Ancestry LMA records for Joseph Lynch and Margaret Swallow in 1900 might mean ?

It says "Applicants for certified copy of entry 206 should be referred to the Registrar General".

I wonder why ?

Sounds like the sort of thing they wrote if the marriage had been annulled. Copies of such marriage certs are not supposed to be issued if requested.

Online publication of the LMA registers is an interesting way of bypassing the bar on issue of such certificates. I'm surprised the particular entries weren't blacked out ("redacted" to use Freedom of Information Act terminology) before scanning.

I wonder if someone at the GRO will pick up on this thread and start a wholesale examination of the LMA marriage registers.

[Merry]

UJ, I think the actual reason was purely that the marriage cert wasn't signed by the vicar as there was another one on the following page, exactly the same, with the same note.

[Rick]

[QUOTE=Astro Lady;48028]Sorry nothing to do with family history, just want to say hi to Rick and Jan, long time no see. Hope you have a very merry xmas xxxx :D
QUOTE]

Hiya Valley !!! We've been hiding in plain sight :) And a very merry Xmas to you too. Will send you a PM.

Rick & Jan.xx

[Rick]

When the marriage cert arrives for Joseph and Grace I wonder who Joseph will have as fathers name.

Hopefully Thomas.

Just got back today from a couple of days away and I now have the cert. So here goes................

10 December 1912 at the Register Office, Fulham.

Joseph Thomas Patrick Lynch, widower aged 39, author of 33 Lillie Road, Fulham, father Thomas Lynch, author (deceased).

Married....

Grace Mary Compton, widow aged 40 years of 63 Halford Road, Fulham, father William James Richard Green, master mariner (deceased).

Witnesses: Sydney Bower or Bowen, Annie J. Bower or Bowen and Violet Henderson.

I've not looked at the witnesses yet but the key things I take from this are that:

- he is the same one who married Margaret Swallow (although his age and place of birth are inconsistent)
- he is definitely related in some way to my great grandmother - same surname, similar age, both down as born Bradford on the 1911 and she was living in a side road off Lillie Road in 1911
- he could be her brother but something is not quite right - family stories hinting at scandal, their father's names don't match (exactly)

All theories welcome !!

[Margaret in Burton]

Half siblings?

Maybe one parent was a bit naughty somewhere along the line.

[Rick]

Half siblings?

Maybe one parent was a bit naughty somewhere along the line.

Now THAT wouldn't surprise me Marg :d

If I had to guess then they are probably brother and sister. My mother knows nothing at all about her grandmother having siblings though - it was never mentioned.

I'm also guessing that the scandal is fairly simple. Margaret Lynch had an illegitimate son with Alfred Leon and he was both married and a generation older than her.

I can understand that Margaret managed to avoid both the registration of her son's birth and the 1901 census if she was on tour with her fellow artistes, but where she, Joseph and their father were on previous censuses is beyond me.

Thanks again for your help in this and all of the other contributors to this thread.

[Merry]

My guess is that Margaret knew her brother was named for their father (in part) and so she gave her father the full fleet of forenames when she married, but in fact dad was just plain Thomas, as this would be more likely at the date he must have been born.

So, dad is an author now! lol

[Rick]

My guess is that Margaret knew her brother was named for their father (in part) and so she gave her father the full fleet of forenames when she married, but in fact dad was just plain Thomas, as this would be more likely at the date he must have been born.

So, dad is an author now! lol

Yes - promoted from artiste to author !!!

I guess the other possibility is that the father did have all three forenames and was known as Thomas.