Christina Martin

[kiterunner]

The GRO birth index has a Christina Martin registered Jan-Mar 1896 Steyning district (Sussex). Can anyone find any other trace of her anywhere before I give in and order the birth certificate, please?

[Merry]

I give up!

I did notice there were two Christina Martins listed on the GRO page and wondered if some sort of error had occurred as it's not a very common name (only five entries in 10 years)? The other one in the same Q was registered in Chorlton Lancs (from memory!)

[kiterunner]

Thanks for looking, Merry. I managed to trace the Chorlton one o.k. but got nowhere with the Steyning one. I think I will order the birth cert and cross my fingers!

[kiterunner]

Ordered it.

[maryphil]

I had a good look,not much luck.

[James18]

Is she a relative, or just someone of general interest?

[kiterunner]

I don't know who she is, James, but I am trying to find out whether she is the same person as Christina Annie Martin who married my great-uncle. I now have my Christina's date of birth from the 1939 Register, though I suspect that the year of birth on there is wrong, but I don't have her place of birth. When the birth certificate arrives, hopefully I will be able to figure out whether she could be my Christina or not.

If anyone wants to work on my Christina in the meantime (although I've been trying to figure out who she was for years), she married Reginald Hugh Bristow 12 Sep 1919 at Hackney Register Office, London, age 23, spinster, residence 12 Kingsland Passage (same address as Reginald), father Michael Martin, farmer. Witnesses F Elligett and J Simmons. I think F Elligett is Florence Elligett nee Cain who married Joseph D(ennis) Elligett in 1927 in Islington but had been living with him as his wife since before the 1911 census. But whether she was related to Christina I don't know.

My Christina died 11 May 1945, age given as 47. Her date of birth on the 1939 Register is 25 Dec 1896, but Reginald's is 15 Dec 1891 when it should be 1890, so I suspect Christina's should be 1895, and this would fit with her age at marriage. Hence the interest in a birth registered Jan-Mar 1896. Her middle name is Anna on a couple of documents, and on one her name is given as Anna Christina.

Anyway, I'm leaving it till the birth cert arrives as I have tried so many times before and got nowhere! Failing that, if I wait till 2021 the 1921 census should give me her birthplace. Although usually when I expect something to give me a clue to this branch of the family, it just raises more questions.

[kiterunner]

I had a good look,not much luck.

Thanks for looking, Mary.

[kiterunner]

The certificate has arrived now and it looks as though I can probably rule her out as my Christina. DOB is 16 Jan 1896 and her father is Robert James Martin, Sergeant Royal Irish Rifles (mother is Mary Elizabeth Martin, formerly Thompson.) This must be her on the 1911 Irish census:
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002268665/
There is a Christina Martin marriage in Newry district the following year.

So, back to the drawing board! Any ideas about my Christina welcomed - see post #7 for her details.

[Merry]

Have you eliminated the one aged 3 in Upper Tyrone Street, Dunlin, father general labourer in 1901?

[kiterunner]

Have you eliminated the one aged 3 in Upper Tyrone Street, Dunlin, father general labourer in 1901?
The dob for that one on her baptism is 14 Dec 1897, and no middle name on her baptism, though I suppose that doesn't definitely rule her out. There is a possible marriage for her in 1919 in Dublin North, but of course it could be someone else.

[kiterunner]

Thought I should put this on here, but to avoid people having to re-read the rest of the thread - I was looking for Christina Annie Martin who married my great-uncle Reginald Hugh Bristow. Her father was Michael Martin, a farmer, according to the marriage certificate. The 1921 census shows my Christina as Anna Christina, age 26 years 6 months, born Dublin, Ireland. If the age is correct (if!) then her date of birth is 25 Dec 1894. Other records suggest she was born in 1895 or 1896. Now off to look at Irish records...

[kiterunner]

The Christina Martin who married Thomas Fitzmaurice in 1919 in Dublin North gave her father's name as Michael Martin, a labourer, and her address as something Gardiner Street. The Christina who is 3 in 1901 at Upper Tyrone Street, daughter of Michael Martin, a general labourer, is at Lower Gardiner Street on the 1911 Irish census with her mother, brother, married sister and brother-in-law. There is a Christina Fitzmaurice death in 1957 in Dublin, age 58, of 9 Shelmalier Rd, and a Thomas Fitzmaurice death in 1954, age 58, same address. So I think that rules out the Christina of Upper Tyrone Street as my Christina.

[Merry]

I'm not sure if this link will work:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02283/1857051.pdf

If not, search Anna Martin b 1893 in the Irish civil records:

https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/

The details are:

Entry 353
Date of birth: numererous alterations, finally settling on 24 Dec 1893
Place: Balrothery Workhouse
Forename(s) Anna Christina
Sex: female
Father: Michael Martin, Balrothery Workhouse
Mother: Julia Martin formerly Murphy
Occ of father: Labourer
Registered by: M E McCormick, Occupier Balrothery Workhouse
Date Registered: 30 Dec 1893

[Merry]

Michael Martin and Juia Murphy married in Feb 1893 at Lusk in Balrothery Union. They are both of Balrothery Workhouse, so pretty sure it's the right couple. All occs are labourer. Both father's dec'd (Charles Martin, John Murphy). Witnesses John Reid and Elizabeth Irwin (X).

Clue is that Julia was only 17, Michael was full age.

[Merry]

Hmmm, Julia died in June 1895 aged 20 of phthisis, same place.

I looked at births 1894/5 in Balrothery district, but none were for this couple.

[Merry]

Michael remarried in Feb 1897 to Margaret Donnelly in the same church as his first marriage. His details are identical except for being a widower and that his father is no longer dead (!). She is full age, spinster, same address (W/H) father John Donnelly, labourer. Witnesses John Davis (X) and Bridget Donnelly.

They had a son John, born 10 Jan 1901 in the same place, who doesn't seem to have died (at least, not in Balrothy) by the date of the census.....

[Merry]

I really thought that would help!! lol Still looking.....

[Merry]

They were still together in 1908 in South Dublin where a son was born (mother Maggie Donnelly this time). I note the registration says female, but on the page it says son. No forenames recorded. Michael is still of Balrothery but the baby was born in Hospital, hence the different district. Perhaps the child died?

[Merry]

I looked at all the 1908 deaths in Dublin, male aged 0. None were for this couple. One was aged 4 despite the index saying 0, so makes me wonder about the others I didn't look at. There were no registrations for unnamed children.

[Merry]

Grrr, there are a lot of variables for this family and, so far, I clearly haven't hit on the right combination to find them on a census.

FMP Irish Newspapers:

Drogheda Independent 05 November 1904

Quite a long piece which begins:

Michael Martin was charged in custody, at the suit of the Balrothery Board of Guardians with refusing t contribute to the support of hs wife and children by leaving them a burden on the rates.

It goes on to detail how often Michael is drunk, who he has assaulted on various occasions, his aggression and use of bad language, what short terms of imprisonment has has been sentenced to, etc etc. But no details about the wife or children to confirm this is the same Michael, though it seems likely. One of the witnesses for the prossecution was the Balrothery workhouse master.

Drogheda Argus and Leinster Journal 03 September 1904

Here there is a warrant for his arrest for dessertion. This time it says wife and two children which seems right as we now there's Anna (1893) and John (1901).

I now can't remember if I looked at other births between the second marriage and 1901 before mmn was included in the index, to see if there were any other children. I don't think I did, as there were probably quite a few, given I didn't know if they were born in Balrothery or Dublin or elsewhere (though elsewhere seems unlikely).

[kiterunner]

Wow, thanks very much for all that, Merry. Date of birth 24th December 1893 is pretty close to what I was looking for. Surely it must be her. I had made the mistake of concentrating on Dublin itself when looking for the birth. I found a Christina Martin age 7 in Swords on the 1901 census, a boarder, who could be her.

[Merry]

OK, there are only three births without mmn in Balrothery 1897-1900 and one is for the right couple - Charles Martin b Oct 1898 Balrothery W/H.

So, either Charles or John needs to have died by 1904 or maybe Anna isn't living with Margaret (step-mother)?

Is all Irish research like this? Every bit I've ever done is similar!!

[Merry]

Drogheda Independent 26 March 1904

On Wednesday last a man named Michael Martin, popularly known as the "Iron Man," applied to the Guardians at Balrothery Union for the admission of his wife and two children. He himself refused to go into the house......

He went away, came back drunk and assaulted various officials who tried to throw him out. He got two months hard labour for this.

[Merry]

Drogheda Independent 12 March 1910

Similar antics, but no mention of any family this time, so may not be the same man.

[kiterunner]

He sounds lovely!

1911 census Oberstown (Holmpatrick, Dublin) the workhouse, has Maggie Martin 30, Charles 13, John 10, and Patrick 3.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Holmpatrick/Oberstown/109/

[kiterunner]

Okay, they're on page 3 of the workhouse return. All Roman Catholic, Maggie's occupation Domestic Servant, married 10 years, 3 children, birthplace for all is Co Dublin, "where from" (i.e. where admitted from) is Balbriggan.

[kiterunner]

So Patrick must be the one born 1908 South Dublin.

[Merry]

There are three newspaper entries in the late 1890s, so this is a summary of those in order:

Drogheda Independent 01 May 1897

A list of facts for this column, which sound like tongue in cheek comments from local news, such as what various committees have been doing right or wrong, or local councils takig ages to get a job done etc etc, but includes:

"That Michael Martin and his wife, sometime of Balrothery Workhouse, had a cold honeymoon of it."

Drogheda Independent 10 July 1897

Michael came to the porter's hut at B W/H and was threatening, drunk and abusive and had a rock in his hand. the rest of what happened is similar to before, bt there is also these quotes from various officials:

That Martin is the fellow they call The Iron Man. He is a terrible fellow.

Is that the man who got married from here?

The very same. He is from Malahide too.

Is he now? Some terrible fellows from Malahide (much laughter)

Another of these Martin's was down here and married "the nut" (more laughter)


Not sure who that last bit refers to but included it for completeness!

Drogheda Independent 26 March 1898

Michael Martin requested a pair of new boots from the Workhouse. He was issued with old boots instead. He was described as 'the wife walloper' in the article. Apparently the doctor had said she shouldn't go out with Martin because of the baby.

That's a bit confusing as she wasn't very pregnant at ths time, and I doubt anyone would have cared about her welfare at this point, but surey all these snippets are about the family we are looking for?

And, Yes I do think that birth reg is the right one.

[Merry]

Here's a clue...

Drogheda Independent 19 August 1905

Mrs Margaret Martin "sought admission to the hospitality of the workhouse" (I bet she wasn't laughing like these tabloid journalists :mad:).

Then it was the usual things about Margaret not being supported by her husband.

The useful bit is that Margaret often lived with her sister, Bridget Donnelly (1897 marriage witness?). Bridget Donnelly is described as "and family", so I don't know if she had children too though single. She and her family were also in and out of B W/H, but perhaps there's a chance they were together on a census?

[Merry]

He sounds lovely!

1911 census Oberstown (Holmpatrick, Dublin) the workhouse, has Maggie Martin 30, Charles 13, John 10, and Patrick 3.

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Dublin/Holmpatrick/Oberstown/109/

Just awful.

I missed your posts as I was typing. So, as would be likely, Maggie was only looking after her own children by 1911. Anna would be independent by then. Yes, that boarder could be her. She was probably better away from her father!

[Merry]

Okay, they're on page 3 of the workhouse return. All Roman Catholic, Maggie's occupation Domestic Servant, married 10 years, 3 children, birthplace for all is Co Dublin, "where from" (i.e. where admitted from) is Balbriggan.

I saw that place name in one af the articles. The implication was that Martin went there to get drunk.